An Exercise in Install Practice....
04-30-2013, 12:08 PM
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An Exercise in Install Practice....
Thought this might be an interesting and educational exercise in installation etiquette....
When it comes to turbine powered jets, there are some well seasoned "Do's and Donts" we should always consider when laying out our installs. While a good segment of us have acquired this knowledge through the years, we have a large and growing base of "rookies" (for the lack of a better term) that would probably benefit from the knowledge we gained by our own mistakes...
Great time to share what we know; just might save a plane OR .....
Lets start things off with this picture below. I can see numerous DONT's with this setup, can you identify any of them??
When it comes to turbine powered jets, there are some well seasoned "Do's and Donts" we should always consider when laying out our installs. While a good segment of us have acquired this knowledge through the years, we have a large and growing base of "rookies" (for the lack of a better term) that would probably benefit from the knowledge we gained by our own mistakes...
Great time to share what we know; just might save a plane OR .....
Lets start things off with this picture below. I can see numerous DONT's with this setup, can you identify any of them??
04-30-2013, 12:15 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
Ok Todd, I'll take a stab,
What get's me right off the bat, are the antenna wires for the receiver. While it's true 90 degrees is a good orientation these antennas appear to be running paralell with a lot of other wires, including wires with grounds in them. This has the potential to kill the signals going to the antennas.
Better way would be to use some plastic tubes like they use in RC cars and re-orient the antennas so they are still 90 degrees apart from eachother but are like "Car antennas" clear of all masses of metal, batteries wires and electronics. Especially on the last two inches of antenna wire.
What get's me right off the bat, are the antenna wires for the receiver. While it's true 90 degrees is a good orientation these antennas appear to be running paralell with a lot of other wires, including wires with grounds in them. This has the potential to kill the signals going to the antennas.
Better way would be to use some plastic tubes like they use in RC cars and re-orient the antennas so they are still 90 degrees apart from eachother but are like "Car antennas" clear of all masses of metal, batteries wires and electronics. Especially on the last two inches of antenna wire.
04-30-2013, 12:18 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
Looks like the ECU is just stuffed in front of the fuel tanks. It should be secured somewhere and heave the connectors routed neatly to it. Overall the install is just messy, hard to tell what is going where.
04-30-2013, 12:21 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
You have may attention Todd. Having done only 2 installs, I am very much a rookie so I will be watching closely and book marking this one. Good topic.
Cody
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04-30-2013, 12:22 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
Great tread Todd!
I am one of those rookies for a lack of a better word. I think the electronics is to close to the fuel and could cause a serious problem if leak develops.
I am one of those rookies for a lack of a better word. I think the electronics is to close to the fuel and could cause a serious problem if leak develops.
04-30-2013, 12:51 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
Todd , I bet that plane has had a bunch of flame outs, and I have a good idea why. The ECU is trying to bail out and save it self. 
all kidding aside the rule of thumb is when it looks like spagehtti it works like spaghetti. If it where mine i would rip it all out and start over , makes chasing the problems that much easier.
all kidding aside the rule of thumb is when it looks like spagehtti it works like spaghetti. If it where mine i would rip it all out and start over , makes chasing the problems that much easier.
04-30-2013, 01:08 PM
#12
RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
No wire ties on the UAT to pump and elsewhere. Fuel pumps to close to electronics. (Static Issue)
ECU Flopping around
If using a carbon board that's a No no
ECU Flopping around
If using a carbon board that's a No no
04-30-2013, 01:12 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
My list:
Receiver antennas are not clear of power/servo leads.
Fuel/smoke tubing not safety wired in a few places.
Fuel tubing running right across and under receiver (issue if fuel leaks)
Pumps too close to Powerbox (possible RF issues I guess).
ECU looks to be jammed in and not properly secured.
Generally, too many crossings over between fuel and electrical lines.
Too many components not secured.
Isn't it easy to criticise! Not sure all my installs would pass muster.
Receiver antennas are not clear of power/servo leads.
Fuel/smoke tubing not safety wired in a few places.
Fuel tubing running right across and under receiver (issue if fuel leaks)
Pumps too close to Powerbox (possible RF issues I guess).
ECU looks to be jammed in and not properly secured.
Generally, too many crossings over between fuel and electrical lines.
Too many components not secured.
Isn't it easy to criticise! Not sure all my installs would pass muster.
04-30-2013, 01:13 PM
#14
RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
Maybe I'm going blind but I can't see any major don'ts. Sure it's a bit untidy and things like safety wiring would be a bonus but I would think that model would fly perfectly well as it is.
04-30-2013, 01:20 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
Antennas for Futaba RX are loosely hanging about and not ideal. You really want those in tubes(particularly the ends) and fixed at 90 degrees. Hopefully that's not real carbon shielding the antennas. Fuel lines running over sensitive electrical items seems like a bad idea.
04-30-2013, 01:47 PM
#16
RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
ORIGINAL: siclick33
Maybe I'm going blind but I can't see any major don'ts. Sure it's a bit untidy and things like safety wiring would be a bonus but I would think that model would fly perfectly well as it is.
Maybe I'm going blind but I can't see any major don'ts. Sure it's a bit untidy and things like safety wiring would be a bonus but I would think that model would fly perfectly well as it is.
Not pretty, but not necessarily unsafe (at least from the picture)
Personally, I´m not a big fan of the over designed installs that are a pain to disassemble. They might look good, but are impossible to service. I want a balance of looking good but being easily serviceable. My friends joke because of my "liberal" use of Velcro haha. (i really don't see anything wrong with using velcro to hold your elevator servos hahahaha).
But seriously, I want easy access to all the layers of my installs.
The only thing I would improve is fixing the ecu. Don't like it stuffed. But again, if it can't go anywhere, besides being ugly, what is the problem?
04-30-2013, 02:25 PM
#17
RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
I agree with Jack about easy access.
Aside from what has already been mentioned, I don't like that the fuel lines from te pump can move with gravity, possibly kinking the line. I'm also not of fan of labels close to the rx. Looks sloppy. I would also add safety wire to the reducer fuel fitting.
Aside from what has already been mentioned, I don't like that the fuel lines from te pump can move with gravity, possibly kinking the line. I'm also not of fan of labels close to the rx. Looks sloppy. I would also add safety wire to the reducer fuel fitting.
04-30-2013, 02:36 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
Well before anyone starts bagging on that install especially the fuel pump to close to the receiver, I have seen seasoned flyers put their fuel pumps right next to their RX or the ECU. It is a messy install but I have seen worse. As far as the guys who have their installs engineered better than a space shuttle cockpit, think how hard it is to get that back out in the event of a problem. There should be a neat well thought out installation somewhere between unrecognizable mess to over thought out installs.
Patrick
Patrick
04-30-2013, 03:43 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
I remember when 8411s were all we had to build these jets and they worked very well, still use them to this day when some guys ask what I'm using for servos and I tell them 8411s they look at me crazy lol
Btw don't forget that I think as good as a 8411,8611,8711 is, it still has one plastic gear.
Paul
Btw don't forget that I think as good as a 8411,8611,8711 is, it still has one plastic gear.
Paul
04-30-2013, 05:26 PM
#22
RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
ORIGINAL: GSR
I am with Jack- I will go with serviceability over pretty any day. Scotty
PS and that is not just an excuse for an ugly install
I am with Jack- I will go with serviceability over pretty any day. Scotty
PS and that is not just an excuse for an ugly install
04-30-2013, 06:29 PM
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RE: An Exercise in Install Practice....
Lets be clear; my intent is not about "neat-n-tidy"! The purpose is to pass on knowledge of install dont's that can lead to problems or dangerous situations. And the "do's" that just make things easier, better ect... We have all had at least one of those "DUH" moments where you smack yourself in the head, or your buddy does it for you. 
Those are the things we need to be passing on so they don't get repeated unnecessarily.
I'll cover some of the things I see that are far from ideal tomorrow.....
Those are the things we need to be passing on so they don't get repeated unnecessarily.I'll cover some of the things I see that are far from ideal tomorrow.....