Dave Harmon

Garry......I don't know about being an expert but I DID stay at Motel 6 last night.....hahahaha....

One of the things I had to get used to was....forcing myself to change things to improve my flying. Don't be afraid of change (on your airplanes.....kaff kaff)
Case in point.....get rid of high and low rate rudder. This way you don't have to remember anything....make the airplane fly switchless....get used to higher rates....you will improve immediately.
Fly it in high rate rudder all the time and put in some expo to tame it down a bit if needed.
This will help with directional control as well....ie....if the nose wanders off a bit...correct it immediately...don't just let it go until you have to make a large judge-observable rudder movement...same for aileron and rudder.
Watch for slight trends in what the airplane is doing and correct them instantly.
Anticipate what the airplane is going to do. Anticipation is one of the things that makes Chip Hyde and others at that level so darn good.
They have the ability to correct the airplane before the judge can see it should be corrected. Watch some U-Tube videos of Chip flying...this will show you what manouvers are really supposed to look like.
Trim the airplane and set the transmitter rates and expo's to what other successful guys are doing and shortly you will be competative.
As far as thrust is concerned.....make certain the rudder is centered correctly. Just because the t/e of the rudder lines up with the fin does not mean that the rudder is really in the center aerodynamically.
Try this......put the fuse in a cradle upside down.....turn on the radio.......get behind the airplane and with the transmitter subtrim and flight trim at zero....adjust the clevis on the rudder to be exactly down the bottom line of the fuselage.
It is much easier to get an accurate rudder center if you look down the fuse bottom line....from the rear.

One other thing I just remembered about the intruder......the elevators are incorrectly built.
They built the first elevator on a flat surface, then flipped the plans over and built the second elevator on a flat surface.
Wrong...rong....rong..
By building them this way....one of the elevator skins is flat while the opposite elevator skin is sloped.
Try this....put one of the elevators on a flat surface and look at the trailing edge....the trailing edge will be flat on the surface....this incorrect...this causes the bottom skin to be flat but the upper skin is on a slope.
Both skins on each elevator half need to be on a slope when properly built.
The other elevator will be the opposite causing a built in roll if the elevators are in align with each stab tip.
You will have to correct this rolling tendancy with the ailerons causing further trim problems.
The elevators, ailerons and rudder are having a 3 way arguement over which direction the airplane is going to go next.
It will only fly true if you gan get them to agree with each other or just trim it properly in the first place.
This can be a problem on the Intruder because of those elevators and some other things I haven't mentioned.

It is not possible to adjust each elevator half exactly alike by looking at the trailing edge of each elevator.
So....you'll have to compensate.....adjust one of them up while the other is adjusted down.
This can easily cause an opposite aileron trim compensation which then will then cause the airplane to bank slightly one way or the other when you pull to an upline.....making you think there needs to be a thrust change.
The ailerons also need to be exactly in trail to avoid a slight roll when you pull up....or push up.
If there is some aileron trim....the down aileron will cause a roll towards the opposite wing because of the additional lift on the down aileron side.
Don't forget to remove any engine thrust adjustments you have made during the trimming process.
This can start to get interesting because of the building errors on this arf.

About your new radio....keep it simple and make sure all subtrims in the transmitter are zero.
Adjust the surfaces to be in trail with each clevis and add a bit of expo to suit. Don't use the subtrim unless you absolutely have to.
When you fly it....and it feels too sensitive....that's good....keep flying it that way and you'll improve right away.
I used to fly with the rates very low so I would have to throw the stick all the way over to the limit.
Those rates were so low that it felt like driving a car on ice....I would move the controls to correct the airplane and the darn thing would just keep on going.....so that made me ham-fisted on the controls.
After I upped the rates considerably....it was a lot easier to fly with precision.

Dave

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

I understand what you're saying Dave. Thanks for those tips. That's first I've heard of the elevator issue. No wonder this bird needs a lot of attention in set-up and trim. You are also advising the opposite of everything my flying buddies have told me about radio set-up for contest flying. They tell me low rates and plenty of expo ...and they're all better flyers than I am so, Ibelieved what they told me. However, I do "feel" the airplane better when the rates are higher. This info will take some time to absorb.
I'll do the bench work on it as Iinstall the new receiver ...hopefully today. The mailman isn't here yet and I'm on pins and needles. Who would think an old man like me would be as excited about near radio gear as kid on Christmas eve waiting for a Red Rider Lever Action Rifle BB gun with a compass in the stock?

Thanks again,
RJ

Dave Harmon

Haha....Ok Garry....well don't worry about being old....I'll bet I'm older than you are.....but nevertheless....all you have to do it to be able to see the airplane and be able to move the sticks and you'll be ok.
I got a bit carried away on the last post....I tend to write books but the details are everything.
You would not believe how much of an improvement a proper setup on these arplanes can make....
By the way....because of that elevator problem...you may have difficulty getting the stab incidence set correctly...ie...both sides the same.
You may have to slip a small metal rule vertically between the side of the fuse and the stab root rib and measure from the top of the stab upper skin to the top part of the adjuster pin.
Make this measurement the same on both stabs and that will be pretty close.
It's far more important to get the stabs to the same incidence.
Essentially....the stab incidence can be almost anywhere (within reason) and only the position of the elevators will be affected.
This sounds strange but consider that everytime the stab incidence is changed the elevators have to be retrimmed to fly level.
Keep in mind that the elevators will probably not align with the stab tips....and if they do....the entire stab/elevator relationship is probably out of rig.
I found that on my Intruder it flew pretty straight without any mixes as long as the c/g was set so that the assembled airplane would teeter on the main gear as previously described...ready for flight less fuel.

Dave

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

Well, Ican still see (mostly) and move my fingers but, Ihave a hard time with gum and walking.
Ihave a very well trimmed 30% Edge so, Iknow what a well rigged and trimmed airplane should fly like. The Intruder is not there yet.
Yeee Hawww ! The Aurora 9 and my receivers just arrived. I've got a bit of programming to do now.

RJ

Dave Harmon

Great!
Post back here and let us chickens know how that Airtronics is getting along.

Dave

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

Re: the Aurora 9 first impression.
I'm a bit timid when approaching this gear. I've only used Spektrum in my brief career in RC and the feel is definately different. It ISeasy to program but, it's stiffer and feels different in my hands. It feels a bit heavier but, not uncomfortable. I'll know more after I fly with it today. All switch postiions are programmable and there are lots of them. It feels very crowded. This is a serious radio with many features available to customize.
I'm nervous about it but, I have no choice. All of my Spektrum gear is sold so, I'm committed.
I think Ilike it but, the there is a learning curve.

RJ

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

Aurora 9 first impression cont'd .....

First use was today with the Intruder. I had a LOT of trouble getting the engine started today (FA-91). As it turns out, the throttle was reversed (duh) and the glow plug was too wet to fire. After Ireversed the throttle and got it to run I had trouble setting the throttle curve. The majority of the throttle started at 50% stick and we couldn't get it adjusted correctly ....which turned out to be a funky throttle servo which Ichanged when Igot home tonight. It's working much better now.
Once Igot it in the air the radio was solid and worked as advertised. I didn't even notice the stiff stick movements that Icomplained about last night. So, I learned a bit about my new radio and found something that needed correction on the airplane. Not a bad day and everything came home in one piece.

The Intruder is still pulling left in the vertical so my thrust adjustment doesn't seem to have made any difference. It's correctable with rudder but, I'd like to not have to do that. I'm going to check alignment again tomorrow and may add more spacers under the left side of the mount.
Man, I'm tired. It was a long day.

RJ

Dave Harmon

You shouldn't have to add that much right thrust. I didn't add any at all.
Don't forget to check the rudder alignment with the airplane upside down.
If you have a scale...weigh each wing and add stick on weight to the light wing to balance laterally.
You will probably want to seal the aileron gaps as well...if air leaks through the gaps....it will cause one wing to lift more as you pull up to the vertical...this makes a slight roll and will make the upline look goofy.
Make sure the ailerons are exactly in trail....ie...not up or down.

Dave

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

Dave,
Wow, You're a night owl like me. Ididn't expect anyone to see my post until tomorrow. It's 2:30 AM here and I'm waiting for my xmitter and starter battery (12volt lawn mower battery) to finish charging. I'm now paying the price for not charging the starter batter last week when Ihad plenty of time.
Yep, Ineed to check the lateral balance and seal the aileron hinge area. I probably screwed up when mounting the engine and didn't get the mount drilled properly. The contest is too close to go through a remount now so I'll try shimming it and hope it works for me.

See ya later.

RJ

stuntflyr

So,

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

I haven't had a chance to fly it. The winds have been, and are forecast to be, gusting to 25 every day this week. The weekend wx looks good but, our field will be closed for planes on Sat. and until noon on Sunday due to a Heli event. Looks like I'll be hitting the field every day next week getting both of us tuned up.

RJ

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I am putting one together with a OS.61 FSR. The engine is side mounted with a little twist so that the muffler will clear the lower fuse. I also substituted the motor mount with a Dave Brown mount. And run the nose wheel steering off the top of the mount so the rod runs almost straight back and minimizes the bending of the rod and drag. I pulled the push rod tubes out and ran a split elevator pushrod through the supports at the back of the fuse and it is friction free. and avoids a lot of potential problems.
Sparky

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

That is a very effective combo. I had an OS061 on my older bird and it was excellent. When I whacked the vertical off the fuselage Imust have decided I didn't need the engine so, I sold it. (like a dummy). Anyway, I'm very happy with the Saito .91. I got it for an excellent price and it is a strong engine. It pulls the Intruder around at least as well as the .61 did.
My control system is entirely stock. Everything runs very smooth with no binding but, Idid add a bit of lube to the elevator tubes just to make sure there would be no binding. All works smoothly with little strain on the servos. The nose gear/rudder servo has a straight shot to both controls. No binding here either.
The advice on the CG is spot on. It does fly better with the CG pushed forward to give it a tail-heavy indication when balanced. I've added about 1oz of weight to the tail to get her that way. It flies much better and rolls are very axial when the horizontal incidence is set correctly. Once Iget the thrust angle set correctly I believe the majority of my issues with it will be solved.
By the way, when balanced this way you will have to use down elevator to taxi so the nose wheel stays on the ground especially when landing (low fuel). She's really light on the nose the wheel will leave the ground when you hit a bump or if you taxi with the elevator up.

Dave says she likes to be flown fast and Itend to agree. Maneuvers are much better when the speed is up. Ijust make them a bit bigger to use all of the speed she has. They look better, and slower, when bigger anyway.

Enjoy your Intruder. It's a keeper in my book.

RJ

Dave Harmon

Garry....you can reduce that problem somewhat by bending the main gear back a bit.

Dave

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

Dave,
Ithought about doing that but, haven't yet. I'm sure it will make it easier to drive on the ground.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I looked through the last 4 pages and was wondering about stab incidence. Is 0-0 the way to go?
I got the wing on straight but the stab cannot be adjusted unless the fiberglass tube is knocked loose the stab is about 3/16 out when measured from the nose.
Any ideas?
Sparky

rowdyjoe

My Feedback: (9)

I'm still not happy with the way mine is flying and I'm not sure it's the fault of horiz. stab incidence. I still need to adjust the thrust angle on mine. Once done, I'll post the results here.

RJ

ChiefK

Do not loosen the fiberglass tube.... do loosen the set screw (bottom of each half of the stab) with a small Allen wrench (provided with the airplane). This will free up the stab for easy adjusting, then, when you have it where you want it, retighten the set screw (this might seem more difficult than it really is because it's hard to see the set screw and you may have to find it by "feel" with the Allen wrench). 0-0 is where you want it to be. Yes... you have to adjust each half separately, so an incidence meter is recommended.

ChiefK

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

Bump

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

Chief,
Yep, I understand the incidence adjusters. I have 4 incidence meters ( and know how to use them) I was talking about the lack of alignment in the other two axis. I usually have my planes closer in those two axis. Level with the wing and same distance from nose to the stab tips. I doesn't appear to be an issue others have mentioned. Small errors add up, maybe this weekend we will maiden her.
Sparky

ChiefK

Nice hi-vis color scheme Crank. I think you're the only person I know who recommends placing the battery forward to give a more forward balance point. All the SPA flyers seem to like a more rear-ward balance point for this airplane. Based on that advice, I added some weight to the back end of my Intruder and I do think the flight characteristics were improved. But... whatever works....

ChiefK

stuntflyr

You mean the tips aren't level and the hingeline is askew? I'll double check mine.
Chris...

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

Yes, the other two axis are more off than if I built it myself. They are probably good enough but just trying t get it as close as possible that way i have less excuses.
Sparky

skybolt58

I have a older WM 90 intruder, It has the .91 OS 4 stroke in it, I would love to convert it to a tail wheel, anyone have any specs on how it is done?

Thanks for any information?

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

To convert to a taildragger you would have to open the wing and add landing gear blocks forward of the main spar.
You could use the existing landing gear mounts as an example of how to fabricate the landing gear blocks.
Sparky