Operation of Brakes on Tx
#1
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Operation of Brakes on Tx
Guys
Just wondering what the general consensus is regarding placement of the brake operating switch/lever/stick, currently I have mine on the left slider (mode one, DX18QQ) but have been thinking of moving it to operate on down elevator, it would appear to me be a better arrangement than having to reach for a lever etc.
Peter
Just wondering what the general consensus is regarding placement of the brake operating switch/lever/stick, currently I have mine on the left slider (mode one, DX18QQ) but have been thinking of moving it to operate on down elevator, it would appear to me be a better arrangement than having to reach for a lever etc.
Peter
#3
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
I tend to do a full control movement check as I taxy out and have caught myself out more than once by inadvertantly applying the brakes when I check down elevator.
If I run out of channels then I use the down elevator mix but, if possible, I prefer to use a slider.
If I run out of channels then I use the down elevator mix but, if possible, I prefer to use a slider.
#4
My Feedback: (4)
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
This is gonna be one of those things that you have to just go with what works for you. I'm a "slider" lever guy, always have been. I'm also a proponent of the JetTronic zero loss electric brake valve (the newer one that doesn't leak like a civ). It's a proportional valve, my latest one was purchased a year ago and they seem to really have gotten better compared to the older ones. I've also used BVM smooth stops. I like proportional braking and the slider allows a lot of flexibility with these types of brake systems.
Some swear by the elevator link mix. For me, in a full scale airplane you never push forward on the stick when braking, if anything it's the other way around so it never made sense to me to take weight off the mains where the brakes are and put it on the nose wheel while potentially inducing a skid or controlability issue. But that's just me. If I didn't have the extra channel I'd probably mix brakes to a switch like Tam does with his all in one brake setup.
Some swear by the elevator link mix. For me, in a full scale airplane you never push forward on the stick when braking, if anything it's the other way around so it never made sense to me to take weight off the mains where the brakes are and put it on the nose wheel while potentially inducing a skid or controlability issue. But that's just me. If I didn't have the extra channel I'd probably mix brakes to a switch like Tam does with his all in one brake setup.
#6
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RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
Seen that many planes bounce because of the down elevator mix application if you have to go for the picks before the aircraft is slow eneough you will be looking for the tissue box.
Cheers
Mav
Cheers
Mav
#9
My Feedback: (9)
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
Pushing down elevator also makes the nose steering more sensitive and if its an f16 or something like one you will mess up your wingtips and tear off your missile rails.
The last thing you want to do is apply down elevator when landing hot. You will toast your plane with the bandit hop.
Right slider is the way to go.
The last thing you want to do is apply down elevator when landing hot. You will toast your plane with the bandit hop.
Right slider is the way to go.
#13
My Feedback: (106)
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
Like Feander and Eddie. I like the right slider with a BVM smooth stop. Full propo is the only way I can feel like I have full controll of the brake when I want it. The Smooth stop is just like retract Cyl. If you keep it serviced it will work every time and won't leak air
#14
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RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
I am another proponent of the slider. The use of a separate channel allows a parking brake to be applied when the jet is unattended.
Also, with a slider, the brakes can be partially applied when the jet is on short final. With the brakes are partially applied, the jet will usually stick better at touchdown, reducing the chance of bouncing.
You can't do that with the brakes coupled to the elevator.
I use a BVM Smooth Stop II proportional valve, and will not switch.
Also, with a slider, the brakes can be partially applied when the jet is on short final. With the brakes are partially applied, the jet will usually stick better at touchdown, reducing the chance of bouncing.
You can't do that with the brakes coupled to the elevator.
I use a BVM Smooth Stop II proportional valve, and will not switch.
#15
My Feedback: (40)
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
ORIGINAL: mavrick
Seen that many planes bounce because of the down elevator mix application if you have to go for the picks before the aircraft is slow eneough you will be looking for the tissue box.
Cheers
Mav
Seen that many planes bounce because of the down elevator mix application if you have to go for the picks before the aircraft is slow eneough you will be looking for the tissue box.
Cheers
Mav
More sensitive steering because of added pressure on the nose wheel? Negligible in my experience and probably no more nose pressure from partial down elevator than the braking action itself. The wing tipping issues with F-16's and other narrow gear jets invariably has to do with turning too sharply at too high a speed and/or uneven braking side-to-side.
Both brake operation methods work for different people. I personally prefer to keep my hand on the sticks during rollout (like full scale) and having brakes on down elevator lets me do that. Decide for yourself what works but don't believe that either method is "right" or "wrong".
You can even have it both ways....I use down elevator on landing and the slider for a parking brake or even a slight pre-load on landing like Harley suggests.
Craig
#16
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
Right Slider AND down Elevator. Right slider for Parking Brake or to "Pre-Brake" on occasion.
I'm with EddieP, It seems wrong to push forward on the yoke while braking for all the reasons he mentioned. But after trying it I wound up liking it. Sometimes have to use two mixes doing exactly the same thing to get enough travel. Favorite brake valves are the Jetronic Low Loss Valve and on the last couple I used the UP-6. It's a little hassle using a servo but ... The UP-6 works like an air pressure regulator rather than a pulse valve. It uses very little air even in mid-position. Very Smooth.
I'm with EddieP, It seems wrong to push forward on the yoke while braking for all the reasons he mentioned. But after trying it I wound up liking it. Sometimes have to use two mixes doing exactly the same thing to get enough travel. Favorite brake valves are the Jetronic Low Loss Valve and on the last couple I used the UP-6. It's a little hassle using a servo but ... The UP-6 works like an air pressure regulator rather than a pulse valve. It uses very little air even in mid-position. Very Smooth.
#17
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RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
ORIGINAL: CraigG
Urban myth. It's not really possible to ''bounce'' an airplane with down elevator once it is on the ground.
More sensitive steering because of added pressure on the nose wheel? Negligible in my experience and probably no more nose pressure from partial down elevator than the braking action itself. The wing tipping issues with F-16's and other narrow gear jets invariably has to do with turning too sharply at too high a speed and/or uneven braking side-to-side.
Both brake operation methods work for different people. I personally prefer to keep my hand on the sticks during rollout (like full scale) and having brakes on down elevator lets me do that. Decide for yourself what works but don't believe that either method is ''right'' or ''wrong''.
You can even have it both ways....I use down elevator on landing and the slider for a parking brake or even a slight pre-load on landing like Harley suggests.
Craig
ORIGINAL: mavrick
Seen that many planes bounce because of the down elevator mix application if you have to go for the picks before the aircraft is slow eneough you will be looking for the tissue box.
Cheers
Mav
Seen that many planes bounce because of the down elevator mix application if you have to go for the picks before the aircraft is slow eneough you will be looking for the tissue box.
Cheers
Mav
More sensitive steering because of added pressure on the nose wheel? Negligible in my experience and probably no more nose pressure from partial down elevator than the braking action itself. The wing tipping issues with F-16's and other narrow gear jets invariably has to do with turning too sharply at too high a speed and/or uneven braking side-to-side.
Both brake operation methods work for different people. I personally prefer to keep my hand on the sticks during rollout (like full scale) and having brakes on down elevator lets me do that. Decide for yourself what works but don't believe that either method is ''right'' or ''wrong''.
You can even have it both ways....I use down elevator on landing and the slider for a parking brake or even a slight pre-load on landing like Harley suggests.
Craig
+1, That is how all my Jets are set up, even the F16. All roll to a stop in a straight line . Just don't jump on the brakes all at once, that's when you will need those tissues.........LOL
#19
My Feedback: (6)
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
ORIGINAL: Terry Holston
+1, That is how all my Jets are set up, even the F16. All roll to a stop in a straight line . Just don't jump on the brakes all at once, that's when you will need those tissues.........LOL
ORIGINAL: CraigG
Urban myth. It's not really possible to ''bounce'' an airplane with down elevator once it is on the ground.
More sensitive steering because of added pressure on the nose wheel? Negligible in my experience and probably no more nose pressure from partial down elevator than the braking action itself. The wing tipping issues with F-16's and other narrow gear jets invariably has to do with turning too sharply at too high a speed and/or uneven braking side-to-side.
Both brake operation methods work for different people. I personally prefer to keep my hand on the sticks during rollout (like full scale) and having brakes on down elevator lets me do that. Decide for yourself what works but don't believe that either method is ''right'' or ''wrong''.
You can even have it both ways....I use down elevator on landing and the slider for a parking brake or even a slight pre-load on landing like Harley suggests.
Craig
ORIGINAL: mavrick
Seen that many planes bounce because of the down elevator mix application if you have to go for the picks before the aircraft is slow eneough you will be looking for the tissue box.
Cheers
Mav
Seen that many planes bounce because of the down elevator mix application if you have to go for the picks before the aircraft is slow eneough you will be looking for the tissue box.
Cheers
Mav
More sensitive steering because of added pressure on the nose wheel? Negligible in my experience and probably no more nose pressure from partial down elevator than the braking action itself. The wing tipping issues with F-16's and other narrow gear jets invariably has to do with turning too sharply at too high a speed and/or uneven braking side-to-side.
Both brake operation methods work for different people. I personally prefer to keep my hand on the sticks during rollout (like full scale) and having brakes on down elevator lets me do that. Decide for yourself what works but don't believe that either method is ''right'' or ''wrong''.
You can even have it both ways....I use down elevator on landing and the slider for a parking brake or even a slight pre-load on landing like Harley suggests.
Craig
+1, That is how all my Jets are set up, even the F16. All roll to a stop in a straight line . Just don't jump on the brakes all at once, that's when you will need those tissues.........LOL
Mike
#20
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
I was a spring loaded trainer switch for brakes guy, until I bought my new Tx. It has no spring switch. I now use brakes on down elevator & find it works very well. Never had any problems.
#21
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
I use the right slider but in full size on the Fokker 100 they teach to push forward once the nose wheel is on the ground it's very off putting.
#22
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
Hi Guys, could someone draft up the programming mix for a JR 12X to use both the right slider for parking and down elevator for braking when the gear is down? I am truly a jet rookie who will be building my first jet (JetMach 60 with the KingTech 60G) this fall. Just like the Install Thread here on RCU, these are wonderful teaching lessons the more experienced guys are letting us rookies see. Many thanks for that. Chic
#23
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
Interesting that some use both. I too have always used down elevator, but wished I had a parking brake. Is it fairly simple to program the slider if I already have the down elevator set up? Never even new that was possible. I learn something new everyday! Oh, I have a JR 9303 BTW.
#24
My Feedback: (40)
RE: Operation of Brakes on Tx
ORIGINAL: Eaglepilot2
Interesting that some use both. I too have always used down elevator, but wished I had a parking brake. Is it fairly simple to program the slider if I already have the down elevator set up? Never even new that was possible. I learn something new everyday! Oh, I have a JR 9303 BTW.
Interesting that some use both. I too have always used down elevator, but wished I had a parking brake. Is it fairly simple to program the slider if I already have the down elevator set up? Never even new that was possible. I learn something new everyday! Oh, I have a JR 9303 BTW.
Note: These two elevator/brake mixes are cumulative so make sure the slider is off after using it for a parking brake for "normal" down elevator braking.
Note 2: You can fine tune just when the down elevator brakes start to actuate by putting in just a little slider movement. It best to have the down elevator brakes begin with just a small amount of down elevator.
Craig