FreakyDude

Well this is sure to get some cages riled.
As you all know I have been saying that you can build a better than tamiya tank for less money.Well I won't say the exact cost on this Tank as it is not mine but one a gentlemean has purchased from Immortal Hobbies.
Taigen Metal Version Tiger 1, Benedini Sound card, Clark board, 3 to 1 Steel Gears, some smaller mods like real recoil ( We used the high tension flash as well ) and a Radio system.
Only major plastic part is the upper deck, everything else is metal.
I can tell everybody that this was indeed less money than a Tamiya, way less time to put together and I believe will stand the test of time and use.
Wether or Not you are a Tamiya lover, you have to say that the bar set by Tamiya is certainly being approached and arguably surpassed. Given the right tools we all could own this tank.
The build itself is not complicated at all.
Take a peek but forgive the video, I am not a photographer. I am a Tanker. If asked for I will post another video with better sound and pictures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7VIZOLQBww


Please be nice, this is not meant to infame an arguement on Tamiya vs all else. It is meant as a "what can be done only"

tomhugill

Can you post pictures?

Ronan87

Nice. Reminds me of the KT i got from you.

mustclime

Let me start with I own 3 clark boards in a more or less scratch built E-100, e-50 and a wsn/taigen hybred tiger 1......I also own a tamiya m26. The tamiya will eat them for lunch. I really like some of the clark sound effects but, the tamiya sound is so much louder and clearer than the clark( yes I have upgraded speakers). The tamiya tanks also change engine sound when hit, my clark boards do not do this. The range on my tamiya is also much longer( about10feet in direct sun light) .....Have you lissened to thesound on your vidio? Most of what I hear is gear noise when the tank moves. Its the same with my clark boards.

One other question, do you own a tamiya? Have you worked with one, have you fought with one? I have found that the tanks from china are a lot like old british sports cars.....they can be great but you always end up having to work on them. This is all fine and good but in a normal NEAD battle day we have 10-15 battles, I would never expect a non tamiya tank to work every battle.....the taniya's will fight all day and all night without brakingonce.I guess what I am trying to say is if there are no tamiya's fighting in your club, you are fine. The minute a someone with a tamiya panther or m26 shows up that knows how to use it, you are toast.....if the tamiya owner changes out the wheel bushings for bearings and the motors for something stronger, the battle is already over. jmo


btw, I am going to order some more clark boards ...thinking about making an e-10.....

FreakyDude

Tom I will post some still pictures, Inside and out.

Mustclime
This tank has a Benedini sound board for the engine only, Now I do not think anybody can say the Benedini is not equal too or better than tamiya. This tank has Visaton FR8 speakers again argueably the best in the business and I would use them over Tamiya any day.
Anybodies arguement against this particular tank that the sound is not on par with or better than Tamiya is quite frankly not true.
A 2 min vid on you tube is hardly a credible way to judge anything.

The gear noise you hear is there yes but I would expect that with brand new gears and motors. This noise will go away and not be a concern once they are broken in. As they are steel I will be using diamond paste to wearand polish the gears.
The point of thevideo was to have the brush and twigs snap under the weight of the tank and too show off a bit of the mobility despite the weight of this thing which is considerable for a 1/16th
As for the comment that your Tamiya would eat the other tanks you ownI can not nor will I comment, I have not seen your tanks nor watched them battle so without evidence I need to accept your opinion at this point.

I can say without a doubt that no one can say that this tank will fail with regard to mechanical parts. As a matter of fact with all the metal parts I would have to assume the failure rate will be considerably lower than expectations
In addition I can say without a doubtverses this Tiger no one,has a shot distance advantage ora shot width advantage. It is a legal battle tank but it is not a stock battle tank.. this tank, canfitted with aTamiya appleso an operator does not give upthe advantage of the 45 deg defence etc.
In short its like I said this tank is every bit as good or better than a Tamiya.

I will reiterate this is not meant to inflame tamiya lovers or be derogatory to Tamiya quality, This is showing you a Non Branded productthat was modified to compete at the same level. it wasdone easily, effectively and with a lower cost than Tamiya. Therecan beno argument to those points. Only time will tell how reliable the sum of the parts will be.

Next up will be a KV series tamiya killer

YHR

Looks and sounds good. I agree the gear noise is a little overwhelming. Not sure if you got more volume play with there. Typically when the Benedini is hooked up through the Clark is it plenty loud, so I am guessing you might just be able to turn up the volume. Having said that though I find most RC tankers get a little carried away with volume on their tanks. Yes the cannons are loud, but on a real tank the track squeak is much louder then the engines. Too many time guys show up with the volume boosted to overwhelming levels, and when you get a bunch of Tamiyas playing together you end up with turret rotation sounds overwhelming the battle field, like that that would ever happen. What I like about the Benedini is that you can program the volume of each individual sound to give you a more realistic over all sound. It is not just about volume.

Curtis I think you have demonstrated the variety of upgrades that exist out there that can be matched up to produce a quality tank that does not have a Tamiya logo on it anywhere. That is the new reality. Not taking anything away from Tamiya,( I do own a couple and battled with them) as they do run well without much trouble, and a lot of times our Jobbers tank do take a lot of tinkering in comparision. However as us tinkerers get better our results also get much better. What I build now compared to what I built when I started are two different things.

A well done Jobber tank can surpass the quality of a Tamiya, but I do think in the end you will end up spending close to what the Tamiya cost.

To not detract from what Curtis is demonstrating I will just include a link to Benedini with programmed volumes in a JagD. There is a learning curve to get the most out of the Benedini as you kind of have to match it to your tank, Volumes, starting voltage etc. Run those gears in for a few hours and up the volume slightly, the effect will be that much more dynamic.

[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0jsvUua8K4]JagD[/link]

mustclime

I guess I came off a little harsh...sorry...the tank seems great....


Do you own a tamiya? The thread is called "taniya tiger killer", I was commenting on that. You do note that the tank is heavy....thats not a sign of a good fighting tank. If you go to danville, the guys comming out on the winning side for the most part keep their tanks as light as possable...tamiya panther and m26's are pretty darn fast and imo not to scale speeds. Does this make them better.....well they are better fighters and if a heavy tank comes up against them its going to be a bad day for the guy with the heavy tank.....watch this vid ....watch how the tanks move. You tell me how that tank will do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP0NEYg0VOY

Stince

Really....because I have a HL Panzer 3 with an SLU that I've battled hard for three years without any maintainence and I beat the hell, just ask any Can-Am members.



Sure if the owner of a Tamiya know how to use the fan shot, slope defence and the 45 degree defence, then of course they should win.
But if used in a fair fight then there is no difference.

At the last Can-Am Battleday ( which Freakydude was apart of by the way ) there were several Tamiyas involved and there was clear cut winner between the different makes, just who is controlling them.

YHR

I agree. IR battling in no way resembles real tanks. Go to a place like Danville with a geared down slow heavy tank, and be prepared to lose. Both my heavy metal Tigers and Geared down Pershing were cannon fodder for the Tamiya battlers.

I learned from that trip, and when I do make it back there it will be with a light quick tank with a short bbl.<grin>

TheBennyB

Yup, speed kills at Danville. Other than an aluminum lower hull, swing arms, sprocket and idlers I try to stay light. Never really been a fan of metal tracks unless I want that "sag" on Russian armor or
have it really gear down like my JT or Panther G. No real need to argue about this as most of the time it's sorted out on the battlefield..... I'm still battling my Tamiya and all the "clones" are at their
bench's being wrenched on. I've converted plenty of HL's to Tamiya electronics and they run fine after lots of tuning, still not a Tammy in my opinion. Not trying to bash your build Curtis, very good looking
tank and if it is hundreds of dollars cheaper than a tammy Tiger and can hold up to 3 days of constant battling, hats off to you!

Ronan87

***This isn't aim at one person, don't think i'm taking shots at any individual***

It's interesting to see when people claim Tamiya are the best, yadiyada and yet you see them with issues on the fields and the internet... Just like other tanks. Apparently if you damage one of the electronics you are SOL and have to pay a few hundred dollars to replace it now... If i have issues with my electronics/gearbox i know exactly who to contact and i know i will be WELL taken care of (that would be ImmortalHobbies).

Glen B

I guess I won't be going to Danville, all my stuff isn't real heavy but it runs scale speed.

If scale speed rules were in force, it would be an equal playing field, but I doubt that would happen, now.

</grin>

TheBennyB

Don't be discouraged about the quick moving tanks at Danville. Most events at the museum have a 3-5mph cushion at inspection so everyone tries to get as muchspeed as possible. The idea behind this is to allow out of the box Tamiya tanks to battle without modification such as the Tamiya KT. Back in the day you'd have guys showing up that had spent$800 or more on a tank, build it and be told they were not permitted to run till they got they're speed down. Speed helps but having torque on your last hit or two is just as important in my book.

Glen B

OK, there's that, then there's....

The messages I get from some of the posts on RCU, like the some on this thread, are it's got to be fast and its got to be Tamiya, plus all the talk about winning; it does not strike me as being too relaxed or welcoming, if your tanks don't fit a certain catagory.

Perhaps I am off base, maybe it is not the intent, but I read this stuff with some frequency, here, and it is the impression I get from it.

TheBennyB

Like I said, speed helps but not a deal breaker. Like anything else, it always comes down to the operator. As for winning, just bragging rights and fun to talk smack around the pool after the museum closes if anything, it's not that competitive based. As far as I'm concerned the atmosphere at the AAF museum is completely relaxed and very inviting for all ages.

White Tiger88

You guys just got me wondering....What type of speed diffrence do the tanks have? I have seen the  Tamiya Panzer IV go pretty quick but would it say be slower then a Henglong version? 

mustclime

OH god!...what have I done?......called a ***** a *****?......real world, many of the tankers that battleat danville are IR battletankers....they have nothing to do with real tankers...there are guys at danvillethat could show up ant anyclub meet anywhere in world and take on everyonein the club at thesame time and mop the floor with them.....they know things like swing shots, post shots/delay shots,slope defancethat allows them to pretty own anyone out there in the IR tanker world. Iknow several peoplethat have shown up at other clubs eventsand have told methey could have smoked everyone at the even without working hard.....its kinda like the TV show "pros vs joes"......Am I on thier level? Heck no....I knew that when I fought someone with the loner sherman at danville and did not score one hiton himhe while he hit me 9 times......bottom line, I suck but I am getting better.I have no delutions about being on the same level.

You think your tank is better than a tamiyatank? Go to Danvillebut be prepared to get your butt waxed, its a whole differnt world...........

reyemmanuel

My humble opinion is that the title line is most likely true, based on my personal experience in battling in (tami Tiger)and against a tamiya (KTwith Clark-Benedini_HLIR receiver).

Indeed this tank is a Tamiya Tiger Killer- as it is using a less sensitive IR receiver- (HL Receiver).

It could put hits on a Tami 25 m away and not be hit by the Tami. The Tami needs to close to about 3 m to even get a sure shot on this Hybrid Tiger. By that time, the Tami Tiger could have already incurred at least 6 hits (more if the Tami has DDG). At 3 m, this hybrid could KO the Tiger and live with at least 6 more hit points to go.

cheers,
Rey

Stince

Well you've sold me, sound like Danville is a real fun and relaxing place! Can't wait to travel 12 hours, just so I can get my "butt waxed".
Wow, what great sales person you are for them. "Come on down, and we'll beat up before you have a chance!".

herlihy22

My Feedback: (2)

That Waterson king Tiger with a bunch of metal and sound and movement upgrades actually cost more than a Tamiya King Tiger. You can pick up a Tamiya King Tiger with a little looking on ebay for 500 or 600 at the most. For the waterson King Tiger you will spend 300 plus another 400 or so updating it to be comparible to a Tamiya.

herlihy22

My Feedback: (2)

LOL!!! No **** come to Danville and enjoy the awesome hobby of having you ass handed to you before you have a chance and then that night we will sit around the pool and talk about what a ****ty tanker you are and how great I am!!

I am just kidding by the way. Anybody that isn't competitive at what they do are losers in my opinion and it isn't American. Competitiveness is one of the key traits that has made our country a superpower.

I live in Northeast Tennessee and I am thinking about going one year. I have several Heng Long and several Tamiya tanks. I got a settlement from an accident and bought every german Tamiya tank except the jagdpanther and bought upgrades for all of them. The problem is that I haven't built any of my Tammys yet. I have started my King Tiger though but it is going slow. I am almost afraid of messing up the build but that's part of learning I guess. I am also terrified of using my airbrush to put a decent paint job on it...

Airbrushler

go on youtube watch some videos on airbrushing it's like using a spraycan but way more controled you will get the hang of it

sevoblast

Back when I was going to Dville, and last time was '06 if memory serves, it was a grand experience. Speed checks, emitter and receiver performance and range checks, and overall tank checks were pretty strict. If you were new and showed up with a way too fast tank, we had plug in resistors that would slow you down enough to fight that weekend, and all the lads would pitch in to make your first experience a good one including tips to get you up to snuff for speed, reliability, and performance. It is well worth the trip for both the battle experience and the choir practice after the battle day is over. AAF Museum Battle Days is an experience you should not miss.

Freakydude, no one cares much about what kind or what brand of tank anyone has. We've been modifying T34's since they first appeared rather some years ago, as well as P3's from their debut. In our personal stable we have Hooben, Heng Long, Tamiya, and Wasan. Big deal. The plethora of electronics systems that have entered the market in the last few years do make things interesting, although I don't use them, I stick to Tamiya simply because in USA the electronics, aka DMD and TO units, carry a life time guaranty and Tamiya USA is quite good about taking care of said guaranty. That being said, in the years since I bought my first Tiger 1 when Tamiya introduced them way back when (my first Tiger 1 had the on/off switch in the hull floor right in front of the idler systems....sticking out the bottom!), I've never had a DMD or TO crap out. For someone like me, eyes going and fingers arthritic, the plug and play gig makes it easy. Period. If someone else comes out with a similar plug and play system that's as good as Tamiya for less money, you can rest assured I'll use it. However, I'm NOT going to spend hours on the computer learning how to download various engine, transmission, track, main gun and MG sounds, then spending many more hours putzing around trying to get said sounds in to the electronics. To some that is the fun of it, and some of the lads are quiet good at it. Me, I can barely find the 'on' switch for the computer. I have other things to do with my tank time.

Now, my friend, in case you hadn't noticed, hardly anyone says anything derogatory about Heng Long, Hooben, Wasan/Trumperter or Tamiya....except you. Of course you can build something that will in the end be as good or even better than Tamiya. Who cares if it's better than Tamiya, Hooben, Wasan, Heng Long, or whatever? It's the same as hot rods. Back when I was young, and that's a LONG time ago, Ford and Chevy owners were constantly at each other's throats as to whose car was faster and better. However, back then or today, I can guaranty you I can, and did back then, build butt kicking cars on a shoe string budget. Even today, I can take a Fox body Mustang or LTD II and massage it to the point that it'll beat anyone's 50 grand Shelby Mustang or 100 grand Benz in either drag racing or a road course, and I can do it for WAY less than buying a new Shelby or Benz. However, in either hobby, cars or tanks, no matter how good you are with your tank or how fast your car is, somewhere, somehow, someone is going to wax you. It may happen only once, but it WILL happen.

You see, that's the fun of both hot rods and tanks. We take what we have, modify it, tweak it, massage it, and end up with something better. Instead of doing what you are doing, how's about some build posts, what you've done and how you did it, photos and descriptions of the parts you used to modify the tank, where you got the parts and why, cosmetic or functional? That would be interesting to see.

Ronan87

Nope. Tamiya Kt is over a grande after shipping, taxes and duty here.

Im at just over 650 with Walterson KT, torro metal hull, metal track, Walterson 3:1, TK22 and a radio system.

How? Buying within Canada, and buying smartly.

oh and that includes all the metal accessories for a tank that's better than a stock tamiya KT.

no12skyline

Its a generalisation, but I find that the younger tankers tend to have more time than money, hence alternatives like Clark, HengLong, Wasan appeal to them. The older folk with a bit more money to spend and less time or concentration prefer the plug and play approach that Tamiya takes.

There's no right or wrong, just people who've got more money or people who've got more time.