Cost of glow fuel
05-10-2013, 12:38 PM
#51
RE: Cost of glow fuel
[quote]ORIGINAL: MTK
ORIGINAL: acerc
Avgas smells great, and stores for years and is much cheaper than Coleman or white gas. Last year when car gas sold for almost $4, Avgas sold for $6. Now, Avgas sells for around $5.40 at my local airport. Prices do vary greatly from airport to airport so I'd suggest that you check for best prices in your area, on-line
Avgas smells great, and stores for years and is much cheaper than Coleman or white gas. Last year when car gas sold for almost $4, Avgas sold for $6. Now, Avgas sells for around $5.40 at my local airport. Prices do vary greatly from airport to airport so I'd suggest that you check for best prices in your area, on-line
05-10-2013, 12:56 PM
#52
RE: Cost of glow fuel
ORIGINAL: MTK
And I certainly hope this doesn't turn into yet another pissing match about which gas is best. I use Avgas and that's it; all I'm gonna say about it.................
And I certainly hope this doesn't turn into yet another pissing match about which gas is best. I use Avgas and that's it; all I'm gonna say about it.................
too late:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11...m.htm#11506112
05-10-2013, 04:05 PM
#53
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
ORIGINAL: MTK
Actually, half the gasoline volume is required for the typical flight compared to glow fuel. Stated another way, 5 gallons of gasoline/oil is equivalent to about 10 gallons glow fuel based on engine consumption basis (same amount of run time).
Assuming an average glow fuel price of 20 bucks (I know that's low, just trying to make a point), the 34 bucks for 5 gal gasoline/oil is equivalentto $200 for glow
Someone said they didn't like the smell of stinky gas, and I definitely agree; I am one of the ones that hates the smell of car gas. I use Avgas 100LL; I buy it at the local airport. Just bring my 5 gallon jug and fill it at the pump using a credit card. I make a bogus ''N'' number up and I get access. I hear that some larger airports do not sell to drive up customers but I haven't found that to be true here in Jersey.
Avgas smells great, and stores for years and is much cheaper than Coleman or white gas. Last year when car gas sold for almost $4, Avgas sold for $6. Now, Avgas sells for around $5.40 at my local airport. Prices do vary greatly from airport to airport so I'd suggest that you check for best prices in your area, on-line
Some fellows are finding pure gas at Marinas. Pure gas doesn't have all the stinky stuff in it as car gas does. It doesn't appear to exist in Jersey so that's out for me, but for you, it might be just the ticket in your area.
And I certainly hope this doesn't turn into yet another pissing match about which gas is best. I use Avgas and that's it; all I'm gonna say about it.................
ORIGINAL: acerc
I left Nitro two years ago because of the cost and oil all over the plane. Had to replace most of my fleet but it was worth it. I buy 5 gallons of gas at a time and mix 50-1. And I have not had to wipe an airframe down because of oil since. I just picked up 5gal and oil this morning, it was $34.06 total. That is 1-1/2 gals of nitro with all the mess.
I left Nitro two years ago because of the cost and oil all over the plane. Had to replace most of my fleet but it was worth it. I buy 5 gallons of gas at a time and mix 50-1. And I have not had to wipe an airframe down because of oil since. I just picked up 5gal and oil this morning, it was $34.06 total. That is 1-1/2 gals of nitro with all the mess.
Assuming an average glow fuel price of 20 bucks (I know that's low, just trying to make a point), the 34 bucks for 5 gal gasoline/oil is equivalentto $200 for glow
Someone said they didn't like the smell of stinky gas, and I definitely agree; I am one of the ones that hates the smell of car gas. I use Avgas 100LL; I buy it at the local airport. Just bring my 5 gallon jug and fill it at the pump using a credit card. I make a bogus ''N'' number up and I get access. I hear that some larger airports do not sell to drive up customers but I haven't found that to be true here in Jersey.
Avgas smells great, and stores for years and is much cheaper than Coleman or white gas. Last year when car gas sold for almost $4, Avgas sold for $6. Now, Avgas sells for around $5.40 at my local airport. Prices do vary greatly from airport to airport so I'd suggest that you check for best prices in your area, on-line
Some fellows are finding pure gas at Marinas. Pure gas doesn't have all the stinky stuff in it as car gas does. It doesn't appear to exist in Jersey so that's out for me, but for you, it might be just the ticket in your area.
And I certainly hope this doesn't turn into yet another pissing match about which gas is best. I use Avgas and that's it; all I'm gonna say about it.................
BV
05-10-2013, 05:11 PM
#55
RE: Cost of glow fuel
ORIGINAL: Bill Vargas
your wasting your money running avgas in rc gas engines.
BV
ORIGINAL: MTK
Actually, half the gasoline volume is required for the typical flight compared to glow fuel. Stated another way, 5 gallons of gasoline/oil is equivalent to about 10 gallons glow fuel based on engine consumption basis (same amount of run time).
Assuming an average glow fuel price of 20 bucks (I know that's low, just trying to make a point), the 34 bucks for 5 gal gasoline/oil is equivalentto $200 for glow
Someone said they didn't like the smell of stinky gas, and I definitely agree; I am one of the ones that hates the smell of car gas. I use Avgas 100LL; I buy it at the local airport. Just bring my 5 gallon jug and fill it at the pump using a credit card. I make a bogus ''N'' number up and I get access. I hear that some larger airports do not sell to drive up customers but I haven't found that to be true here in Jersey.
Avgas smells great, and stores for years and is much cheaper than Coleman or white gas. Last year when car gas sold for almost $4, Avgas sold for $6. Now, Avgas sells for around $5.40 at my local airport. Prices do vary greatly from airport to airport so I'd suggest that you check for best prices in your area, on-line
Some fellows are finding pure gas at Marinas. Pure gas doesn't have all the stinky stuff in it as car gas does. It doesn't appear to exist in Jersey so that's out for me, but for you, it might be just the ticket in your area.
And I certainly hope this doesn't turn into yet another pissing match about which gas is best. I use Avgas and that's it; all I'm gonna say about it.................
ORIGINAL: acerc
I left Nitro two years ago because of the cost and oil all over the plane. Had to replace most of my fleet but it was worth it. I buy 5 gallons of gas at a time and mix 50-1. And I have not had to wipe an airframe down because of oil since. I just picked up 5gal and oil this morning, it was $34.06 total. That is 1-1/2 gals of nitro with all the mess.
I left Nitro two years ago because of the cost and oil all over the plane. Had to replace most of my fleet but it was worth it. I buy 5 gallons of gas at a time and mix 50-1. And I have not had to wipe an airframe down because of oil since. I just picked up 5gal and oil this morning, it was $34.06 total. That is 1-1/2 gals of nitro with all the mess.
Assuming an average glow fuel price of 20 bucks (I know that's low, just trying to make a point), the 34 bucks for 5 gal gasoline/oil is equivalentto $200 for glow
Someone said they didn't like the smell of stinky gas, and I definitely agree; I am one of the ones that hates the smell of car gas. I use Avgas 100LL; I buy it at the local airport. Just bring my 5 gallon jug and fill it at the pump using a credit card. I make a bogus ''N'' number up and I get access. I hear that some larger airports do not sell to drive up customers but I haven't found that to be true here in Jersey.
Avgas smells great, and stores for years and is much cheaper than Coleman or white gas. Last year when car gas sold for almost $4, Avgas sold for $6. Now, Avgas sells for around $5.40 at my local airport. Prices do vary greatly from airport to airport so I'd suggest that you check for best prices in your area, on-line
Some fellows are finding pure gas at Marinas. Pure gas doesn't have all the stinky stuff in it as car gas does. It doesn't appear to exist in Jersey so that's out for me, but for you, it might be just the ticket in your area.
And I certainly hope this doesn't turn into yet another pissing match about which gas is best. I use Avgas and that's it; all I'm gonna say about it.................
BV
05-10-2013, 05:56 PM
#56
RE: Cost of glow fuel
just bought four cases of fuel at my local LHS yesterday. i like to buy in bulk so that i can save money on gasoline by not having to run back and forth to the LHS.
i like the power to weight ratio of the fuel-ees
to each his own
happy flying, capt
i like the power to weight ratio of the fuel-ees
to each his own
happy flying, capt
05-10-2013, 06:01 PM
#57
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
Avgas smells great, and stores for years
Mercaptans also become gummy after long storage, and clog the fuel plumbing in your car. The FAA doesn't tolerate that in airplanes, so avgas is refined better.
05-10-2013, 10:03 PM
#58
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
ORIGINAL: Wagon1
I would love to move to gas, and for sport planes I will. The problem I have, is seeing a beautiful scale bird at the field, with every amazing detail, and being totally impressed. Right up until the pilot starts it up and it sounds like a piece of lawn equipment. The sound of gas engines is awful (not loud....awful). That is the same problem I have with electrics. We make our planes look like scale birds... but they sound like toys. Give me a nice, big sloppy glow 4 stroke any day.
I would love to move to gas, and for sport planes I will. The problem I have, is seeing a beautiful scale bird at the field, with every amazing detail, and being totally impressed. Right up until the pilot starts it up and it sounds like a piece of lawn equipment. The sound of gas engines is awful (not loud....awful). That is the same problem I have with electrics. We make our planes look like scale birds... but they sound like toys. Give me a nice, big sloppy glow 4 stroke any day.
Thank you, Thank you!!! I know what you mean, as I see it all the time. Guy has a beautiful 1/4 scale PA-18 Super Cub right down to pinking tape and rib stitching. Then he cranks it up. Horrible Horrible 2-stroke gas sound comes out of it. Sounds like a flying Stihl or Mcculloch chain saw, leaf blower ect ect....... Most annoying thing I see as a scale modeller. Awful just awful.
05-11-2013, 08:57 AM
#59
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Cost of glow fuel
ORIGINAL: abelard
You mean you can buy one of these for five bucks?
which means roughly $5 a galleon for the nitro
ORIGINAL: sj3cub
Thank you, Thank you!!! I know what you mean, as I see it all the time. Guy has a beautiful 1/4 scale PA-18 Super Cub right down to pinking tape and rib stitching. Then he cranks it up. Horrible Horrible 2-stroke gas sound comes out of it. Sounds like a flying Stihl or Mcculloch chain saw, leaf blower ect ect....... Most annoying thing I see as a scale modeller. Awful just awful.
ORIGINAL: Wagon1
I would love to move to gas, and for sport planes I will. The problem I have, is seeing a beautiful scale bird at the field, with every amazing detail, and being totally impressed. Right up until the pilot starts it up and it sounds like a piece of lawn equipment. The sound of gas engines is awful (not loud....awful). That is the same problem I have with electrics. We make our planes look like scale birds... but they sound like toys. Give me a nice, big sloppy glow 4 stroke any day.
I would love to move to gas, and for sport planes I will. The problem I have, is seeing a beautiful scale bird at the field, with every amazing detail, and being totally impressed. Right up until the pilot starts it up and it sounds like a piece of lawn equipment. The sound of gas engines is awful (not loud....awful). That is the same problem I have with electrics. We make our planes look like scale birds... but they sound like toys. Give me a nice, big sloppy glow 4 stroke any day.
Thank you, Thank you!!! I know what you mean, as I see it all the time. Guy has a beautiful 1/4 scale PA-18 Super Cub right down to pinking tape and rib stitching. Then he cranks it up. Horrible Horrible 2-stroke gas sound comes out of it. Sounds like a flying Stihl or Mcculloch chain saw, leaf blower ect ect....... Most annoying thing I see as a scale modeller. Awful just awful.
05-11-2013, 11:50 AM
#61
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
I have a few warbirds running 91 OS four-strokes. The sound and smoke match the planes, and so does does the power. I also fly 10-12 minutes, not five like the electrics. And there's no smell of gas in the garage or the in the back of my suv. And no extra ignition systems, or batteries. I left out the part that I'm afraid of the gassers having witnessed three horrific accidents. I know, can happen with any engine/motor, but these didn't; they happened with gas and the memory is still in my head.
05-11-2013, 12:23 PM
#62
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
ORIGINAL: abelard
The secret to both qualities is mercaptans, a class of organic compounds that (a) occur naturally in crude oil, and (b) stink, even in extremely low concentrations. If you have a gas leak in your house, the smell of mercaptan will tell you, because the gas company adds a fraction of an ounce per year to their gas for precisely that purpose. Take a whiz after eating asparagus, and your nose will tell you that its reaction with your body chemistry has generated mercaptan in your urinary tract.
Mercaptans also become gummy after long storage, and clog the fuel plumbing in your car. The FAA doesn't tolerate that in airplanes, so avgas is refined better.
Avgas smells great, and stores for years
Mercaptans also become gummy after long storage, and clog the fuel plumbing in your car. The FAA doesn't tolerate that in airplanes, so avgas is refined better.
Now I know why. It can gum up yer plumbing.
Just kidding for those who love asparagus,
and those who want to say I am jumping to conclusions.
And-I like it allgas, electric, and nitro. I burn 30% heli fuel, $33/gallon, at about a gallon every 2 weeks in flying season.
05-11-2013, 12:44 PM
#63
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
But since you are so much smarter your math must be different.
This, on the other hand, is a gallon.
05-17-2013, 03:46 PM
#64
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
AvGas is what amateur drag racers call 100LL.
Try running Jet A in your gasser and see what happens.
This type of amateur speculation is precisely why the American Real Estate Market tanked!
Leave the cost of fuel to the professionals, be good little consumers, and pay out-the-butt like you're supposed to....
Good day.
Try running Jet A in your gasser and see what happens.
This type of amateur speculation is precisely why the American Real Estate Market tanked!
Leave the cost of fuel to the professionals, be good little consumers, and pay out-the-butt like you're supposed to....
Good day.
05-17-2013, 06:05 PM
#65
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
I'm afraid I don't get the point of your post.
Of course it is. That's also what aircraft operators call it. 100LL is 100-octane, low-lead aviation gasoline.
Whatever does Jet A have to do with it? Jet A is kerosene with some additives, and it's unrelated to avgas.
AvGas is what amateur drag racers call 100LL.
Try running Jet A in your gasser and see what happens.
05-17-2013, 07:50 PM
#66
RE: Cost of glow fuel
I've seen a number of threads like this over the years. I'm a glow guy and probably always will be. I don't like gasoline engines because of the smell mainly, but the noise is annoying. A gas engine makes an airplane sound like a chainsaw. No thanks. For me, prices of $15-$20/gal glow fuel are a thing of the past. Because of hazmat shipping fees and taxes, airplane glow fuel is ~$28-$32/gal. Car fuel is ~$32-$39/gal. I burn 1-2 gallons of car fuel (20nitro 12 oil), and 2-3 gallons of airplane fuel. Now I have a Jett .35 that is capable of burning 7oz of 15% in 5 minutes or less. My wallet would never keep up with that engine or my ST S90. I now make my own fuel for between $6 and $14 per gallon. I use cheap oil, cheap methanol, and nitro I got with free shipping. I'm happy.
Oh, and I too like a whiff of nitro in the morning... I also (gas guys - you're gonna think I'm nuts...) use only straight AA castor in my fuel mixes, no synthetic except for my car engines which get 12% oil at a 50/50 c/s blend. For aircraft engines, 20% castor is my norm, but my bushed and lapped engines get 25% castor. I am so cheap, I mix by weight too. 5% nitro is all I normally use except in the Jett.
Sometimes the steep up-front costs scare folks away from making their own fuel, but in the long run its saved me $$hundreds$$ of dollars. Now, I'm not pushing my method onto anyone. Just sharing. I don't complain about the cost of glow fuel because its so cheap for me.
Oh, and I too like a whiff of nitro in the morning... I also (gas guys - you're gonna think I'm nuts...) use only straight AA castor in my fuel mixes, no synthetic except for my car engines which get 12% oil at a 50/50 c/s blend. For aircraft engines, 20% castor is my norm, but my bushed and lapped engines get 25% castor. I am so cheap, I mix by weight too. 5% nitro is all I normally use except in the Jett.
Sometimes the steep up-front costs scare folks away from making their own fuel, but in the long run its saved me $$hundreds$$ of dollars. Now, I'm not pushing my method onto anyone. Just sharing. I don't complain about the cost of glow fuel because its so cheap for me.
05-17-2013, 09:38 PM
#67
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
Where do you get the nitro with free shipping, Amazon?
What are the ratios to make fuel? I run 15% is my 2 cycles and 20/20 in all my four cycles.
As long as I use clean containers that seal well, mixing up fuel doesn't seem all that difficult... But I could be wrong...
Thanks,
Bill S.
What are the ratios to make fuel? I run 15% is my 2 cycles and 20/20 in all my four cycles.
As long as I use clean containers that seal well, mixing up fuel doesn't seem all that difficult... But I could be wrong...
Thanks,
Bill S.
05-18-2013, 12:25 AM
#68
RE: Cost of glow fuel
It's really easy if you only make/want one or two mixes. Break down the fuel into the three main components; oil, nitro, and methanol. We can use 20/20/60 for an example. 25.6/25.6/76.8 respectively. (In Fl. Oz, FYI) now if you want to run either all castor or all synthetic then this is easy. If you want to run a blend like 80/20 syn/cas, take the 25.6 oil number and split it. 20.48/5.12 in fl oz would be your oil amounts. I like to measure the methanol first, then oil, and nitro last. I use a graduated fuel bottle for RC cars to measure by volume. I have since started measuring by weight as its more accurate but to anyone else rather unnecessary.
Mix the ingredients in a jug, shake, go fly. If you find your homebrew fuel is bubbly, ensure your fuel tank is perfectly isolated like you normally would. I try to not use any deforming additives but if I need any, I use ArmorAll Original. One drop to a quart is usually enough. It breaks down and falls out of solution overnight so use up what you treat with AA the same day if possible.
Look at your various online consignment places like Amazon. Sooner or later you'll find Torco 100% pure Nitromethane. Through EBay, it was just free shipping off the bat. Amazon was my recent source and needed the Prime membership to get free shipping.
Castor is $33/gal shipped, Klotz synthetic about $49/gal, nitro 55$/gal, and methanol around me is about $2.25/gal just for reference.
Keep it clean!!!!! Dirty equipment and containers bode disaster.
Mix the ingredients in a jug, shake, go fly. If you find your homebrew fuel is bubbly, ensure your fuel tank is perfectly isolated like you normally would. I try to not use any deforming additives but if I need any, I use ArmorAll Original. One drop to a quart is usually enough. It breaks down and falls out of solution overnight so use up what you treat with AA the same day if possible.
Look at your various online consignment places like Amazon. Sooner or later you'll find Torco 100% pure Nitromethane. Through EBay, it was just free shipping off the bat. Amazon was my recent source and needed the Prime membership to get free shipping.
Castor is $33/gal shipped, Klotz synthetic about $49/gal, nitro 55$/gal, and methanol around me is about $2.25/gal just for reference.
Keep it clean!!!!! Dirty equipment and containers bode disaster.
05-22-2013, 07:44 PM
#69
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Cost of glow fuel
I believe that most small airports will sell avgas if you bring in a suitable (red and approved) container.
By the way, I heard (can't say for sure it is true) that the octane of avgas is calculated differently than the octane of automobile gas. That is, 100 avgas would not be considered 100 octane if it were sold as automobile fuel. (The LL versus unleaded is different too.)
By the way, I heard (can't say for sure it is true) that the octane of avgas is calculated differently than the octane of automobile gas. That is, 100 avgas would not be considered 100 octane if it were sold as automobile fuel. (The LL versus unleaded is different too.)
05-24-2013, 06:24 AM
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
I really mis the smell of glow fuel with Castor oil. That is a smell that brings back good memories of they good old days of model aviation. Too bad that now even glow fuel smells different from the synthetic lubricants in it. Lets face it Nitro fuel and Castor oil was a mess and I hve seen more than one plane ruined by it. That day has come and gone, electric is the way to go up to .40 sized planes but for me gasoline is the clear choice on anything bigger.
Still, I really do mis the smell.[&o]
Still, I really do mis the smell.[&o]
05-25-2013, 02:26 PM
#72
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
ORIGINAL: topspin
That day has come and gone, electric is the way to go up to .40 sized planes
That day has come and gone, electric is the way to go up to .40 sized planes
After almost 30 years in the hobby, I made it up to 30% airplanes with 50cc gas motors. Less overall hassle, no doubt, but the odor is a big piece of baggage for those of us who keep our stuff in the house and have no trailer to haul/store it in. The only real drawback to glow power is the mess on the airframe. Somebody said that contributes to the demise of a model. Right.
Sure, if you don't ever clean it off, I suppose. Anyway, I have re-discovered .40/.50 sized glow-powered airplanes. I've still got a 27% Extra 260, and it flies great; but it is a major PITA to get from the house to the ride, and vice versa. I don't want any part of a trailer, for several reasons.
As for electric power... I'll pass.
.
05-25-2013, 07:39 PM
#73
RE: Cost of glow fuel
Anyone thats been around the glow engine forum knows I'm a glow addict. I have some gasoline/ignition engines, but my prized engines are my glow engines. Their power and simplicity make them very good candidates for when light weight and high power is needed. I dont find the mess offensive in the least - that slimy castor goo all over everything means your engine is well lubed. A well lubed engine is a happy engine. My weedeater likes a little slosh of glow fuel in the gas too.
I tallied the cost of the 3 main fuel blends I make for my different engines. The cost of a gallon of fuel at the hobby shop is easily twice what it costs me to make my own. My expensive brew is for my Jett .35 at $16.31/gal. Cheapest fuel is for my Super Tigres, K&B's, and Enya's at $11.07/gal. This is using all castor oil (which I agree smells really nice compared to the synthetic stuff...) If I want to be real cheap, FAI fuel costs about $8 to make.
So cheap fuel can be had if you're willing to do a little extra work. I am a cheapskate, so this suits me fine. Oh, and cleaning castor goo up is super easy. A cotton rag and some clean methanol works slicker than goose grease.
I tallied the cost of the 3 main fuel blends I make for my different engines. The cost of a gallon of fuel at the hobby shop is easily twice what it costs me to make my own. My expensive brew is for my Jett .35 at $16.31/gal. Cheapest fuel is for my Super Tigres, K&B's, and Enya's at $11.07/gal. This is using all castor oil (which I agree smells really nice compared to the synthetic stuff...) If I want to be real cheap, FAI fuel costs about $8 to make.
So cheap fuel can be had if you're willing to do a little extra work. I am a cheapskate, so this suits me fine. Oh, and cleaning castor goo up is super easy. A cotton rag and some clean methanol works slicker than goose grease.
05-26-2013, 07:41 PM
#74
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
I heard (can't say for sure it is true) that the octane of avgas is calculated differently than the octane of automobile gas.
This fuel has been mostly replaced by 100LL (low-lead), which actually has more tetraethyl lead than 80/87, and delivers at least 100 octane across all mixture regimes.
05-26-2013, 07:46 PM
#75
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RE: Cost of glow fuel
I'm not so sure I would go and be announcing this on a worldwide public forum ............
