hrrcflyer

Hello Gents,

In a recent thread regarding the new Nova Rossi Speed 13 RE engines, I asked for examples of aircraft that would be best suitable for the engine. Doxilia suggested a few, including the Brushfire. I have only seen the picture of the Brushfire in the Classic Pattern Image Base and the plane is appealing to me. To my untrained eye, the Brushfire looks similar to the EU1-A which is the first plane that came to mind when I bought my purple headed monster. I would appreciate any additional information about the Brushfire from you guys along with flight characteristics of the plane.

Also, speaking of the Classic Pattern Image Base, does anybody know whatever happened to casniffer? He did such an outstanding job in putting the image base together and keeping it updated for us, but it all appears to have stopped in 2010. Just curious.

Does anybody out there want to bet on how long it takes for Ray (RFJ) to respond with information and pictures of the Brushfire??????...............LMAO That man never ceases to amaze me.

TIA for the help fella's. Take care,
David

FSFLYER

My Feedback: (12)

Everything you would ever want to know about the Brushfire. I have 2 of them if your are interested.

FSFLYER

My Feedback: (12)

Everything you would ever want to know about the Brushfire, Part II...this time with the link:

http://time.fh-augsburg.de/~erd/Mode.../Brushfire.pdf

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

Hey I know you are waiting on RFJ to reply. Take a look here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_48...tm.htm#4902116

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

I was just bouncing around in that file, real nice data there.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Good thread David!

I have been redesigning the Brushfire in CAD as I'm also interested in the idea of building one specifically for the new brutes freshly on the market.

It is a big bird (Aurora caliber) but the fuse design is such that it could be built quite lightly through re-design. It is designed around the concept of a flat bottom fuse and roller coaster top line. I'm considering going with a plugin wing design approach as it has a pretty fat wing at the root and the position is just under the thrust line. The stab is positioned smack on the thrust just like the Tipos. No anhedral here of course.

The flat wing & stab tips complement the flat fuse bottom and the sweep of surfaces look nice with the wavy top.

There is some interesting info from the designer himself on a thread of mine. Look up Webra 12 here on RCU.

David

hrrcflyer

Holy Cow Fella’s,

You’re quick with your assistance…………..LOL ! ! !

Fsflyer,
Thanks for the link. I’ve downloaded it and I’ll read through it later. We may need to talk about your two Brushfires. Do you have any pictures of them?

Roncolman,
I’m not waiting for Ray. I was just making a little joke……. I appreciate EVERYBODY who can help me with my questions.

David,
You bring up a point that I have to think about. I’ve kind of put the EU1A in the back of my mind because I’ve been told by a guy that used to fly them that they can get heavy pretty quick. I’d like to see what you come up with in your redesign. I’ll look up the thread you mentioned after I go find something to eat for dinner.

Thanks for the help everybody. I really appreciate it.......

Take care,
David

Roguedog

Here's somebuild info

hrrcflyer

Thank you very much kind sir. I really appreciate the plans.....

Take care,
David

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

David,

Being that you bought up the flat bottom fuse. The Desire 60 could be a design to look into also. The Desire's wing area is less than the Brushfire and the EU-1.
The extra 100 g of the Speed 13 that some worry about shouldn't be too much of an issue with the Desire. The only problem with the design is that it is a
turnaround pattern design. A pump may be required. Your thoughts, anyone?

Ron

Roguedog

David,

Not a problem. That build info is a must if you're contemplating building one.

Bryan

hrrcflyer

Hey David,

I must be doing something wrong, but I tried to do a search for the thread you suggested, but I didn't come up with anything. Do you by chance have a link to your thread?

Thanks,
David

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Hey David,

Sure, here it is:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8798063/tm.htm

A couple of things in here too:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10111815/tm.htm

Reading articles on the design (check various attachments in the several threads) you'll find out that Ken Bonnema (the designer) conceived the Brushfire as an intersection between the very popular P6/P7 (have to cross check the design date against the Phoenix design evolution timeline) and the EU-1A. This alone was the main thing that sprung my interest in re-designing it for a modern frame up. Initially, as you'll read, for a RE inverted Webra Speedy 12 on David Wood's suggestion, and then, when I started thinking about an interesting candidate for a plugin wing design with an upright RE setup using one of the power brutes including a 5 port OPS gold head that I have (maybe the most well engineered engine I have ever seen - even today. The balance is incredible). The A-shape internal structure of the fuse design is a perfect idea for a 10 degree (9.5 to be precise) straight shot rear exhaust configuration. The canopy would be made of FG. The bottom front half would be made into a recessed hatch for access to the goods.

I've gotten the bulk of the planform design done but just got started on the formers which is time consuming. I've gotten better at synthesizing those out of a basic planform rectangle though. They tend change internally as I go through the process of the internal gear installation. In any case, as I have it, I suspect it could easily come in at 8.5 lbs or less. It is slightly oversize compared to the original - not much.

David

hrrcflyer

Hey David,

Thanks for the links and the information............

Take care,
David

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

David,

No problem. Note that there are more though. I believe there are at least half a dozen threads worth reading if not more.

What are your thoughts on the design? Are you hunting for a good design for the new NR black beasts?

David

Wduck

Few pics of one I picked up this year. I was going to clean it up and fly it, but ended up doing more than I intended. It has an OS 61RF, Spring Air retracts and a flying stab. Can't comment on flyingqualityyet!

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Nice work!

Repainting the fuse was a good move. It's going to look much more contemporary in its new bright colours!

Interesting that the builder built the foam core wings per plan but didn't build the subtleties into the fuse.

David

hrrcflyer

Good morning David,

I don't have enough experience with any of these classics to offer constructive thoughts on the design. Also, I have not had the opportunity to see very many of these classics in person. At this point, I'm just absorbing all of the great information I can about the classics from the rest of you guys and I'm enjoying reading about your experiences with them over the years. I am also learning a great deal from watching real craftsmen here and other sites change a bunch of balsa, some fiberglass and a little paint into a real masterpiece.

I’ve always liked planes like the EU1-A, Aurora, Atlanta, Blue Angel, Illusion and others ever since I first saw pictures of them here on RCU. I think it’s the graceful lines and the way they flow over the fuselages and the wings and since I’ve never had the opportunity to fly any of them, that’s all I can say.

I almost hate to admit this, but the only classic pattern planes I’ve ever flown is my old Tower Kaos which is now deceased and the Dalotel I had which I thoroughly enjoyed flying while I had it. I guess my Dalotel is what really planted the seed in my head about finding one of the planes mentioned above along the desire to build and fly one even though neither my building skills nor my flying skills are up to the task.

To answer your last question, Yes. I’m actually looking for two classics to put a purple headed monster in since I now have a natural case with a 10mm carb and a black case with the 9mm carb. I guess it’s a good thing that I’m in no real hurry to get one because I still have allot to learn, especially with regards to setting up a plane with a tuned pipe and how planes perform with different props.

Geez, I’m long winded this morning, my fingers are getting tired of typing…………………..LOL

Hey Wduck,

I really like your Brushfire. Let us know how you like flying it..................

Take care,
David

frequent flyer

My Feedback: (6)

I am going to be making the Brushfire Fiberglass and foam kit as soon as the five molds I'm currently working on are completed.

hrrcflyer

Hey Don,

That's good news indeed..........................

Take care,
David

stuntflyr

Hi David,
All of your selections are either available now or soon to be available from Don Carlson at RCAiir. He makes glass and foam short kits and is very fast with production and delivery. He's putting the finishing touches on three new molds right now with the Mach I, Aurora and Citation. His Illusion, EU1-A, Atlanta 60 and Blue Angel (Speeda is the glass Blue Angel) are available immediately. I think he recently told me he has some stock of several models that could go out next day.
I have three of his kits (Atlanta 60 for YS 61R, UFO for YS 61 S , and Arrow NR61Speed13) and they're first rate. They come with full sized templates for wood bulkheads and drawings and plans making final construction straight forward. These were the only the second or third glass models I'd ever built and it's going very well.

Email him direct for more information.

Chris...

[email protected]- Custom Fiberglass Fuselages & Parts for R/C Aircraft

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Don,

do you have a glass Brushfire fuse or are you planning to build a plug? If the latter, I'd be interested in exchanging some thoughts on the subject.

I think it might be worth considering a two piece fuse in order to accommodate a vertically mounted RE engine and easy access to the pipe for installation and maintenance. Basically the same reasoning as there is behind the evolution of the Arrow glass fuses where fully removable decks are now part of the glass fuse design. I think the original glass fuses made the engine installation tricky much like the first Arrows and Bootleggers (and Exceptions too for that matter - I've been going back and forth on how best to set that one up!). For this reason, I think many of the glass (and wood) Brushfire fuses had the engines installed side mounted. My interest in the design stemmed from the idea of it being well suited (at least in its wood version) to a straight forward RE setup. I also think it is ideally suited to a plug-in wing approach.

If you have any specific thoughts on how you plan to go about it, I'd be interested in hearing them.

David

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

'morning.

The great thing about the forums - everyone learns and enjoys from other modelers builds and experiences regardless of our background. Like you I have learned immensely and "see" how others approach a task and a building technique.

My personal view is that we are all up to the task. That's probably my transcended grandfather speaking but it stuck. At first our models might be a little rough but the more we work at it the more we improve. I think it's probably easier for all of us when things are taken in small bites. Discipline is also key and being constant. With these few ingredients kept close, just about anything we decide to build is achievable - just witness what is done for the top events in the hobby.

But I'm being a little philosophical. In a nutshell, I guess I'm trying to say: cast aside your doubts and hit it! This alone is cathartic regardless of the outcome of the build.

Well, those are indeed two monsters and will yield very high performance models if they are built with care. It sounds like a healthy and ambitious project. You can be building these models while you fly others that will prepare you for them when they are ready. Unless you work on them daily, it can take upwards of a year or more to get one ready for the flight line so there's plenty of time. My personal preference in terms of acquiring building skills is to build in wood. Foam and glass kits are wonderful and many of us are grateful to Don and others for making these available again. Indeed there are some designs that I'd find hard to fathom in anything but these materials. However, the building skill set one develops with glass/foam kits is rather different than when building in wood. The latter teaches me what to and what not to do over the course of a build and in future builds. In glass/foam builds, I'm mainly thinking along technical aspects of the build and juggling the gear installation in my mind before attacking the fuse and wing.

In any case, I'm not trying to deter you from or encouraging you to build either type of model - just my view on things. Given how you've presented things, I might be inclined to want to build one of each as they will each teach you something quite different.

I would also likely select either an EU-1A or a Brushfire but not both. Given the engines you have at hand, I'd suggest you go with a glass/foam Arrow and wood/foam Brushfire. Heavy personal bias naturally... The beauty of the Brushfire fuse is that it actually lends itself very well to a simple straight forward wood frame up which is much lighter than the original plan design. In those days, balsa was available in logs at our LHS's and carving 6x6 blocks of it was nothing out of the ordinary. Nowadays, we approach things with a skinned & thin strong bulkhead approach much like how canoes are built for example. Naturally this modern approach used almost exclusively in ARF's is not only much lighter but also much cheaper (which is necessary given the cost of wood).

So there's the two of us being long winded this Sunday morning...

David

hrrcflyer

Hey Chris,
I've been in contact with Don on more than one occasion and I already have his present offerings and price list. Every time I look at it, I have to clean up my keyboard.......................

David,
You make some very valid points and I appreciate your thorough input as always................ Like I said before, I'm in no hurry which is good the way things are for me around here right now. I've even thought about doing what Dphill2 did and put one of these in a DB ARF, just to get some stick time with the type of airplane I'd like to fly more of. Maybe when things change around here, that's what I'll do............

Take care,
David

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Good stuff!

David