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DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

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DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Old 03-09-2013, 08:28 AM
  #6476  
RCVFR
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


ORIGINAL: tailskid

My buddy got a new DLE 20 V2 and put it in a TF P-40.....and it does NOT have that 'let's wait a few minutes for the engine to slow down to idle" syndrome
Maybe he was lucky and got a good one. Or, maybe he knows how to set up throttle linkage and tune the carb. Just sayin......

Old 03-09-2013, 08:47 AM
  #6477  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)


ORIGINAL: ahicks


ORIGINAL: repinfl

Is everyone running there DLE20 on 32:1? A lot of the new oil's ''claim'' 50:1 is the way to go. Stihl gave me a longer warranty on my new chainsaw if I used their HP Ultra oil 50:1 in the saw!
I am using the HP Ultra in my five DLE's but still at 32:1.

Yes, pretty much everyone running 32:1

These little guys really struggle with their rod bearings compared to the bigger engines. 32:1 give you a little insurance in that regard?
I agree. The 20cc engines consume fuel at about the same rate as a glow .46, except with more heat and less oil. Larger gassers can lead happy lives at 40:1, 50:1 because with greater fuel consumption, there is more oil passing through as well.

Old 03-09-2013, 09:58 AM
  #6478  
tailskid
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

He must be lucky because he never touched the HS or LS needles
Old 03-11-2013, 12:03 PM
  #6479  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

First, OIL.

Different oils are manufactured for different ratios. If you run Redline or Amsoil run it at 100:1. For the best running, strongest, longest running engine run synthetic at the recommended ratio right from the beginning. Yes, it will take longer to break-in than if you use Lawnboy. The only reason to use Lawnboy for break-in is to do it quick. Lawnboy does NOT lubricate as well as any of the synthentics.

So to do it right go synthentic right from the beginning.

Second, on a gas engine, on the high end, tune to max rpm and then drop only 100 rpm. This is just to make sure you are not lean. Unlike the Nitro engines that do not have a pump and will go leaner as you point them up, the gas engines have a pump. Because of that pump they get full gas pressure when going up and do not have to be tuned rich. 300 rpm rich on the high end is for NITRO engines not for gas.

All, you do when running a gas engine rich is leave unburned gas which carries away some of your lubrication and you also get more carbon buildup. Do not run gas engines rich!

On the bottom end you are just looking for a good transition. Make sure you start from the rich side when doing any tuning. Then go leaner until you get a great transition.

I live just a few blocks from DA. I talk with often with the guy that does tech support. Right now I am running an older case of Amsoil. But with the new Amsoil being sold today they were having a carbon build up. Apparently, Amsoil has changed the formulation. At least that is the guess since for years they ran and recommended Amsoil with no problems. That is why they now recommend Redline. I know 100:1 sound really lean on oil if you are coming from Nitro but remember GAS engines are build differently. Second, the oil you run in gas engines is designed to be run at these high ratios. So stop thinking about how rich you ran your nitro engines, it does NOT apply to GAS.
Old 03-11-2013, 12:09 PM
  #6480  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Gunssa is spot on. Do not run gas engines 300 rpm rich. That is for Nitro engines. 100 rpm rich is way more than enough to make sure you are not running lean. Do less if you are certain about your tuning.

I also live in Tucson and go to DA. I heard about the carbon buildup with the new Amsoil and am switching to Redline.
Old 03-11-2013, 12:30 PM
  #6481  
bhorton
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

DLE recommends 30:1 synthetic oil from the first tank on for these 20cc engines. Running less than 32:1 oil has resulted in broken engines. For 20cc & 30cc DLE engines it is best to follow the manufacturer's instructions.
Old 03-11-2013, 01:17 PM
  #6482  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Hi

+1 to the top three posts , it,s a hobby , not a career .

Michel
Old 03-11-2013, 01:23 PM
  #6483  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Now I am confused......
Old 03-11-2013, 01:32 PM
  #6484  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Don't be, when in doubt use more. In my opinion 1:32 is not going to hurt anything. Maybe a lil messier, so what, take paper towels or bay wipes to the field
Old 03-11-2013, 03:48 PM
  #6485  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I would have to wonder if anyone suggesting that you run 100/1 in a 20cc engine has actually done that for any length of time (not a gallon, SEASONS)? Or are they sharing experience gained with bigger engines? If those answers don't clear up any confusion, maybe reading through your warranty paperwork might clear things up?
Old 05-26-2013, 07:06 PM
  #6486  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Hello all,

My DLE 20 it is failing a lot at full throttle and I can't solt the problem just tuning the high needle. I have 2 gallons of flight, so it is not completely broke in yet, but this does not seems to me like a break-in-period problem.

In a long line at full throttle it sounds like there is a lack of fuel. I tuned the high needle starting from the rich side, at the highest RPM before the misture is too rich, and no matter how fine I tune it, same problem.

I have the same problem since the first flight, but I thought it yould go after a few flights. What else shound I try?

It is my first gas engine. I`m using a APC 15x12 in a Seagull Tucano. My RPM is about 7500 which is a little low, right?

Old 05-26-2013, 07:14 PM
  #6487  
microdon2
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Guijs = Can you be more specific about the symptoms? Is the engine dying - cutting out - at full throttle? How does it run at WOT on the ground? What kind of RPM's are you getting? Is it too rich and burbling too much? Is this happening all the time, or only during certain maneuvers? Have you asked someone else at your field - someone who is familiar with gassers - what they think?

If it's not getting enough fuel you may have a leak in your fuel line, or a problem inside the tank, or there may be gunk in your carb or other filter. Are you using a fuel filter? Are you sure your throttle throws are set correctly? How does it act at idle? Does it hold a steady idle without cutting out? Do you know how to tune a gas engine?

My DLE 30 was cutting out recently after a minute or two of flight and I could not figure out why, until I took the tank apart and found that the uptake line had slipped off the tube. Did you put barbs on the copper tank tubes to hold the line in place? (one of the many differences between gas and nitro...)

Sorry for all the questions, but we need to narrow down the possibilities here.

Mike
Old 05-26-2013, 07:24 PM
  #6488  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Maybe you should take the carb apart and clean it.
Old 05-26-2013, 07:58 PM
  #6489  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

microdon2

The engine is not dying or cutting out. It is like sputtering, gasping, missing, like if it was no fuel for very short intervals (I`m sorry I am not american and I don`t know exactly the terms). It happens at WOTon the ground and it also happens at WOTin flight when in a long straight line. I am getting 7500rpm with a 15x12 APC prop, but it was happening with MAS 15x8 and 15x10 props too.

I have tested from a too rich high needle to too lean mixture. Same problem. I becomes better or worse depending of the needle setup, but it neve goes completely away. Unfortunately I don`t have anyone to ask about it.

I am using Dubro Fuel Filterand a Sullivan Round Tank. The throttle trows are fine, the idles holds very steady at low RPM without cutting out at all. This is my first gas engine but I tuned it following a PDF that I have found here at RCU or RCGROUPS. I can`t find the link right now.

Do you think that this dubro tank filter may be not getting enough fuel? I am using 3/32 tygon tubbing. Would a 1/8 tubbing help?

I am using clamps to hold the lines. I also changed the stock spark plug to a NGK CM-6.

I thank you for all the questions!




Old 05-26-2013, 08:17 PM
  #6490  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

From what you described I would check your battery switch and /or all wireing going to your battery ignition .
Old 05-26-2013, 08:23 PM
  #6491  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I have a 4500mah 6.0v NIMH battery connected to a switch, then a Y cable with one end to the RX (8 servos + electric retracts) and the other end to a RCEXL optical kill switch to the ignition. Do you think that it will stop if I use a separate battery for the ignition?
Old 05-26-2013, 08:24 PM
  #6492  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Guijs,
do a process of simple elimination, one thing at a time to isolate the root cause:
- get rid of the fuel filter
- check fuel line for leaks, slipped off tubes in tank etc
- open the carb and clean it well
- if you can test with a different EI

The carb is the prime suspect, I also had a new DLE 20 that wouldn't start every now and then - tore my hair off until I found aluminum scrapings in the carb that were preventing the pump from drwaing fuel !

Gas engines are great, and the DLE 20 is super reliable, with a little patience you fill find what's wrong and then you will enjoy this great little engine
Old 05-26-2013, 08:26 PM
  #6493  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Btw the engine starts easily and with a stable idle.
Old 05-26-2013, 08:27 PM
  #6494  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Guijs - 3/32 is the correct tube size for this engine. If it's running this poorly on the ground I would not be flying it until I got this problem fixed. First, a 15x12 is a bit much prop for this engine. 15x10 \ 16x7 \ 17x6 are all good props. Also, Master Airscrew props are not very effecient - better to go with APC for now, and XOAR or VESS when you're confident you won't ground strike as much. I'd suggest going back to factory needle settings, find that "how to tune" link and start over. Not sure what the default settings are - maybe someone here knows. I think it was LS - 1.5 and HS - 1.1, but not sure. These needles are very sensitive, btw - you only want to move them a click or two at a time.

Are you using 32:1 oil ratio? When you're running at WOT on the ground, did you try closing the HS needle, slowly? For some helpful information on this engine you can look at the very first post in this thread. One thing you'll see there is to expect around 9,000 RPM at WOT with an APC 16x7.
Old 05-26-2013, 09:08 PM
  #6495  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

The ignition are rated for up to 6 volts . The newer ones can stand over that so you need to see what your ECM is rated for. If you have one rated up to 6v you may have aready damaged it. Most all of the gas guys have warned people that you only need 4.8 volt battery. I your engine does the same thing on the ground as it does in the air I would try using a different battery for only the engine and see if that stops the problem on the ground .
Old 05-26-2013, 09:13 PM
  #6496  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Did you install a new CM-6 plug in it? The DLE plugs are junk.
Old 05-26-2013, 09:15 PM
  #6497  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I have read that some ignitions will not do well with voltage over 6v. And NiMh batteries charge to over 6v - have read that some people drain the battery a bit to get it down to 6v. So when they're fully charged they might be causing an ignition miss. From the pros on this thread you only need 4.8v (as Fooped just mentioned). I use a seperate 4.8v NiMh and it works great. I'd recommend testing with that setup on the ground. It's also a very good idea to take your carb apart and inspect for gunk \ loose filings.
Old 05-27-2013, 02:00 AM
  #6498  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Guijs

The symptoms you describe (cutting out at high RPM) sound like what happens with to much voltage applied to the ignition (until it fails completely). Regulate it down to 5v or put it on a 4.8 pack and I'll betcha your problem goes away.

Been there done it.... got the t-shirt to prove it too!

I tried my DLE 20 on an A123 direct and had exactly the same symptoms. Regulated it down to 5v, no problem since.
Old 05-27-2013, 02:12 AM
  #6499  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Another thing I should mention.... I got one of those cheapie can type mufflers that Valley View (and others) have for sale for 26-30 engines. With minor mods to the header flange it's a bolt on for a DLE 20 and quiets this noisy bugger down considerably with no significant loss of performance. If anything the engine acts a little "peaky" like with a tuned pipe, but I can live with that.

Only thing I don't like is that the hose clamps that come with it are no good at all and will crush the pipe if you're not careful. @ $65 bucks or so, not bad.
Old 05-27-2013, 03:25 AM
  #6500  
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Default RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Name of product??

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