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Joe Nall Incident

Old 06-08-2013, 09:00 AM
  #26  
karlik
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


ORIGINAL: gjmjoe017

You guys are making me realize the next time I am driving down a busy street and someone pulls out and hits me,tough luck,I shouldn't have been driving on a busy street!
Sometimes, there are "no fault" accidents - not often, but sometimes. But if I'm driving down the freeway and another car pulls next to me, decides to change lanes and hits me broadside, he's at fault.
Wasn't there, didn't see it; but my first impression from the description is the guy was showboating. In my oppinion, he should at least offer to replace the aircraft - after all, if you can't afford to pay, you shouldn't play!

Old 06-08-2013, 09:17 AM
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JohnBuckner
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

I am sorry Joe but I wonder if this thread would even be here if it were not for your friends obvious shot at the deep pockets and Futaba?

I have been involved with a fair number of midairs in a long history of active pylon racing and the bottom line is always lick your wounds and grumble a bit perhaps dust off the back up and keep racing. Those airplane were not cheap either.

I am always careful who I fly with at home and at events all it takes is a little observation. If I am uncomfortable with anyone in the air I simply land and wait. This make no difference whether I am flying a cheap arf or my turbine.

So sorry for your buds loss of course but I feel neither pilot incurred any more liability than the other.

John
Old 06-08-2013, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

On Futaba payroll. ???? Sponsored pilots don't get paid dude. They are not on any payroll. They just get discounts on products. Mid airs are the fault of both pilots. Always have been, always will be.
Old 06-08-2013, 10:03 AM
  #29  
Chad Veich
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

ORIGINAL: gjmjoe017
ORIGINAL: flycatch
Believe it or not there are bullies and stupid people in our hobby.
And a lot of them on here!
Every once in a while, when the vast majority of people disagree with you, it may simply be because you are wrong and not because everybody else is stupid. It's worth considering anyway.
Old 06-08-2013, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


ORIGINAL: Chad Veich

ORIGINAL: gjmjoe017
ORIGINAL: flycatch
Believe it or not there are bullies and stupid people in our hobby.
And a lot of them on here!
Every once in a while, when the vast majority of people disagree with you, it may simply be because you are wrong and not because everybody else is stupid. It's worth considering anyway.
+1

Midairs suck.
Old 06-08-2013, 10:30 AM
  #31  
psgugrad
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

I'm glad I read this thread as it has restored my faith in Mankind a bit. Based on the responses, it looks like about 85% of the people in this world are still sane...for a while there I had been starting to worry!
Old 06-08-2013, 10:46 AM
  #32  
ccostant
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

I just can't understand how you think Futaba is obligated to replace the airplane. It sucks that your friend lost a beautiful airplane that he worked a long time on but when you fly at these kind of events you have to know its a very real possiblity a midair is going to happen and accept it when it happens. I've flown in many warbird gagles with up to 12 planes flying the pattern in close proximity at a major event. Obviously I don't know all the details of the midair but you really need to be on your toes and give yourself enough space if you feel your being crowded.
Old 06-08-2013, 10:53 AM
  #33  
vertical grimmace
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

Too bad those Futaba shirts haven't been made to be a little more attractive! It seems most of the guys wearing them do so just to look cool.

If the "Futaba" pilot was not wearing that shirt, this thread would not exist. It seems there is an attempt to reach into the deep pockets.

Sounds like an accident to me. Having flown a ton of Combat for a lot of years, and being in many mid-airs, you learn how to avoid them. I do not think there was anything done by the P47 pilot to avoid this. Gotta keep plenty of light around your plane at all times.


Again, if you can't handle losing the plane you are flying, keep it on the ground. They seem to all go in eventually.
Old 06-08-2013, 11:20 AM
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1320Fastback
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

Mid airs in this hobby have to be accepted and as long as both parties are flying sensibly and following any rules that are implied then neither pilot is at fault or owe anything to anybody.

As said before, don't fly what you can not afford to lose.
If $3,000 is a lot of money to you and you could not afford to gamble with it then don't fly it.
If $3,000 is your monthly RC allowance then have fun and get another one when it goes in.
Old 06-08-2013, 11:31 AM
  #35  
bogbeagle
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

Again, if you can't handle losing the plane you are flying, keep it on the ground. They seem to all go in eventually.


If you look very carefully, you will find a "use by" date stamped on the airframe.

They all have one.
Old 06-08-2013, 11:48 AM
  #36  
Mustangman40
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

I was standing there when it happened. The flight line was busy, planes were flying the pattern and bam. Scott was shooting video though he wasn't sure if he captured the crash or the aftermath.

That said, when asked what happened immediately after, the guy flying the Corsair said he had no idea what happened, he was flying along and bam.

It sucks for both parties but these things happen

That picture says it all, looks like two nice planes were lost!!! And the cart that the Corsair is in, read the tailgate... "Crash Recovery", wonder why they have a cart with that on the back.. Your going to crash, your going to have mid-airs, it's part of this hobby.. If both planes were flying in the pattern then it's just bad luck, thumbs, or what ever you want tocall it.. No one is at fault even if the guy with the corsair hit your buddies 47, I am sure he didn't want to crash his corsair either... Now had he been flying out of the pattern like hitting head on or aT'bone, then I would be pissed.. The whole Futaba should do the right thing, what the heck did they do.. That's like trying to charge a guy the money our gov is costing us, all because he has a O'bama sticker on his bumper.. Wait a minute, I got to think about that one...lol Sorry your buddy lost his plane, I'm finishing the very same plane and know how much work and $$$ goes into it.. Just part of it.....
Old 06-08-2013, 11:58 AM
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

^^^ It's Bush's fault !
Old 06-08-2013, 11:59 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

Again, I saw the whole thing, I was standing between the two pilots when it happened.

If I had been the pilot of either plane I would not have been talking to the other pilot like he owed me a plane.

As for the crash cart, that's only half of it, they have a cherry picker on standby to fish them out of the trees.

Granted there's 5 flight lines, but with 1246 pilots, there's going to be a lot of air traffic, and this occurred at show center on Thursday afternoon at like 2pm, in the midst of one of the busiest days.

And, as far as I remember, that wasn't a Futaba/Hobbico employee, it as one of their team pilots.
Old 06-08-2013, 12:08 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

So how aboutthis senario??I was at my local field spotting for a buddiesjet, 1 other jet was flying also and 3prop planes wereflying the standard race track pattern. Then some yahoo comes out with his big YAK, gets in the pattern and decides to 3D stop it over the runway, hover, climb, flips etc. while you have 5 other planes flying the circuit. 2 planes had to yank hard to avoid the A-hole when he stopped to do what he does. If someone hit him, who would be at fault and, should someone (namely the YAKpilot) pay for damages?He never called out that he was going to hit the brakes to perform manuevers.
Old 06-08-2013, 12:16 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner

I am sorry Joe but I wonder if this thread would even be here if it were not for your friends obvious shot at the deep pockets and Futaba?

I have been involved with a fair number of midairs in a long history of active pylon racing and the bottom line is always lick your wounds and grumble a bit perhaps dust off the back up and keep racing. Those airplane were not cheap either.

I am always careful who I fly with at home and at events all it takes is a little observation. If I am uncomfortable with anyone in the air I simply land and wait. This make no difference whether I am flying a cheap arf or my turbine.

So sorry for your buds loss of course but I feel neither pilot incurred any more liability than the other.

John
I have to concur with Mr. Buckner. If I am flying while another pilot is flying too close or wreckless I will make every effort to avoid him and I will land my aircraft. Ifyour friendis waiting for Futaba to reimburse him, tell him not to hold his breath. The spotters should be SPOTTING!! maybe an aileron servo gave out, who knows? Anything could happen in this inherantly dangerous hobby of ours. Yes, It is unfortunate to lose two beautiful scale warbirds after putting so much time and effortintobuilding and finishing them,Thats whyyou don't feelas bad when you crash an ARF and a big reason lots of guys don't build anymore. Some up elevator or downelevator would have put him in the clear pretty fast. Chalk it up to experiance and move along. Sorry for the loss but thats the hobby. Rotten out
Old 06-08-2013, 12:30 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

Due to very limited human depth perception after 50 feet ,you could not hit another plane if you choose to and planned it
Mid airs are just accidents , with two planes trying to be in the same place
The cost of the planes just makes it a harder hit emotionally and financially
So sorry for both the planes and pilots for there loss
Old 06-08-2013, 01:39 PM
  #42  
bogbeagle
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

Depth perception ... too true.

Recently, I was flying a Spyhawk ... it wasn't until I reviewed the video that I discovered how close the model had come to this Junior 60. I had no idea, at the time.
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


ORIGINAL: psgugrad

I'm glad I read this thread as it has restored my faith in Mankind a bit. Based on the responses, it looks like about 85% of the people in this world are still sane...for a while there I had been starting to worry!
I agree.....Been a few times flying at a warbird show that I have did a 180 circle midfield to get someone off my *****. And there are times when another pilot and I like to fly formation together as we both can hold a line even in a crosswind.

Time to pull up your big boy pants and move to bass fishing if you can't get over it.
Old 06-08-2013, 01:42 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


ORIGINAL: abelard

Futaba didn't smash your buddy's plane.
Well, that might depend on whether ''Futaba team pilot'' means the pilot was on Futaba's payroll. If it does, and if the pilot did something that incurred liability, Futaba owns at least some of it.

Welcome to the age of lawyers.
Just to be clear, the Team Futaba people are actually sponsored by Hobbico, not Futaba Corporation. SO if the guy in the Team shrt was an employee he was an employee of Hobbico.
Old 06-08-2013, 02:01 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

The ONLY thing I can think of is if the Futaba was NOT flying the pattern and doing 3D stuff, WHICH is Prohibited at the Main flight line. Also remember, everyone can get a Horizon and a Futaba shirt..... Just saying, as he might not be a sponsored pilot with them.....  Best of luck to you!
Old 06-08-2013, 02:10 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw

The ONLY thing I can think of is if the Futaba was NOT flying the pattern and doing 3D stuff, WHICH is Prohibited at the Main flight line. Also remember, everyone can get a Horizon and a Futaba shirt..... Just saying, as he might not be a sponsored pilot with them..... Best of luck to you!
Just to keep rumors and other felgercarb to a minimum.

Neither pilot was flying 3D of any sort, against the pattern, or anything else.

The Corsair pilot was wearing a TEAM FUTABA shirt, not the orange Futaba tee shirts they sell.
Old 06-08-2013, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident



Wasn't this an AMA event?  Doesn't AMA insurance cover airplane damage for certain situations?  What do they say about this?

Old 06-08-2013, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

I think they give those away also... I have seen so many shirts like this and the people wearing them.. not to good on the sticks... Horizon does the same, SCARY STUFF!!! But, back to this..... Good luck dude! Might be better to wash your hands of it and go on.
Old 06-08-2013, 02:52 PM
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident

I was at Joe Nall this year also. I was flying a 10 foot wingspan B-17 when a P-51 and a P-47 decided to fly "cover" for me. It was a bit freaky at first but they both seemed like pretty good pilots so I settled down a bit. I'm sure I wouldn't of been too pleased if one of them had hit me.

Large events are a "fly at your own risk" situation. I still land if an idiot decides to do stupid stuff. All crashes are a " no fault". That's just the way it has to be.

The only time I really got irritated was when the Horizon Hobby guys were flying a couple of small (way less than required), light weight, slow moving planes in small patterns and cutting in front of everyone passing in at normal and high speeds. Same kind of thing that took out that jet one year with a kids foamy.

This is very similar to other people flying another persons plane. The rule is, "Who decided who was going to be flying the plane". If they ask you to fly their plane its their fault if it crashes. If you ask to fly their plane it is your fault and owe them a plane.

Cheers!

Speed
Old 06-08-2013, 02:55 PM
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Default RE: Joe Nall Incident


ORIGINAL: rgburrill



Wasn't this an AMA event? Doesn't AMA insurance cover airplane damage for certain situations? What do they say about this?

Ha ha...AMA insurance is secondary to your own homeowners insurance!

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