Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
06-09-2013, 08:23 AM
#27
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
Well! Heck! The soft flexible tanks might be more punchuture/crash resistant to a Kevlar fuel tank that is of a rigid design. I see this as a better option as those pilots' that have use Dubro tanks for the jet. I think a Dubro tank splits upon impact? Again, don't know.
06-09-2013, 08:31 AM
#28
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
Hahaha !Yes Dan i think is better than plastic tanks.For sure they don't withstand in fire but they are very flex to absorb a strong impact!
06-09-2013, 08:36 AM
#29
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
Argyris!!
Thank you so much for your time and effort on this forum and testing! I do agree that the normal DuBro or like tank can't hold up to this kind of bottle. I do believe that a shampoo bottle will hold up to the same test. Nice forum! Thanks! I learned something today.
Thank you so much for your time and effort on this forum and testing! I do agree that the normal DuBro or like tank can't hold up to this kind of bottle. I do believe that a shampoo bottle will hold up to the same test. Nice forum! Thanks! I learned something today.
06-09-2013, 08:52 AM
#31
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
Ok Argyris!
Nice test, but truly not what I was looking for in the test!! Your initial strikes with the kid's hammer, where minimal. Then, you basically just twisted the tank to death, and making sure the cap stayed on the bottle.
The test that I am looking for; is to simulate a 90 degree impact to the concrete pad or runway!! This is what causes an impact fire. If it is in the woods, fields, etc: not a good thing.
You need a sledge hammer!! 10 (4.54 Kilograms) pound hammer minimum to hit it, with a full axe swing!
Nice test, but truly not what I was looking for in the test!! Your initial strikes with the kid's hammer, where minimal. Then, you basically just twisted the tank to death, and making sure the cap stayed on the bottle.
The test that I am looking for; is to simulate a 90 degree impact to the concrete pad or runway!! This is what causes an impact fire. If it is in the woods, fields, etc: not a good thing.
You need a sledge hammer!! 10 (4.54 Kilograms) pound hammer minimum to hit it, with a full axe swing!
06-09-2013, 01:41 PM
#33
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RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
For what its worth, pop bottles are made from PET. They have excellent puncture and burst properties. They must withstand C02 and drop tests. In the industry, they are tersted to high pressure and drop testing for impact resistance. They have much better resistance to bursting or breaking than the kevlar tanks used in jets. Kevlar is ideal for molding to conformal tanks that fit well inside certain airframes but will break and splinter in a crash. Too many people slam the use of pop bottles because they are inexpensive, but in reality they are more suited to the task.
As for shampoo bottles, there are two types, PET and PE. PE is the same material the dubro tanks are made from. The difference is one loos clear like a pop bottle (PET) or cloudy/milky color (PE).
As for the closures, they are usually tested up to 150 psi for blow off consideration.
As for shampoo bottles, there are two types, PET and PE. PE is the same material the dubro tanks are made from. The difference is one loos clear like a pop bottle (PET) or cloudy/milky color (PE).
As for the closures, they are usually tested up to 150 psi for blow off consideration.
06-09-2013, 02:27 PM
#34
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
In in need for a 50-60 oz tank for my jet.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAPCG&P=0
Came as a surprise to me. With the gas conversion stopper I've never
had a leakage problem. If you have the room to fit one it's a cheap & simple solution.
John.
06-09-2013, 05:51 PM
#36
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RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
ORIGINAL: Gary Arthur
For what its worth, pop bottles are made from PET. They have excellent puncture and burst properties. They must withstand C02 and drop tests. In the industry, they are tersted to high pressure and drop testing for impact resistance. They have much better resistance to bursting or breaking than the kevlar tanks used in jets. Kevlar is ideal for molding to conformal tanks that fit well inside certain airframes but will break and splinter in a crash. Too many people slam the use of pop bottles because they are inexpensive, but in reality they are more suited to the task.
As for shampoo bottles, there are two types, PET and PE. PE is the same material the dubro tanks are made from. The difference is one loos clear like a pop bottle (PET) or cloudy/milky color (PE).
As for the closures, they are usually tested up to 150 psi for blow off consideration.
For what its worth, pop bottles are made from PET. They have excellent puncture and burst properties. They must withstand C02 and drop tests. In the industry, they are tersted to high pressure and drop testing for impact resistance. They have much better resistance to bursting or breaking than the kevlar tanks used in jets. Kevlar is ideal for molding to conformal tanks that fit well inside certain airframes but will break and splinter in a crash. Too many people slam the use of pop bottles because they are inexpensive, but in reality they are more suited to the task.
As for shampoo bottles, there are two types, PET and PE. PE is the same material the dubro tanks are made from. The difference is one loos clear like a pop bottle (PET) or cloudy/milky color (PE).
As for the closures, they are usually tested up to 150 psi for blow off consideration.
06-09-2013, 06:40 PM
#37
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RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
ORIGINAL: Pepperpete
I had no idea they could take that kind of pressure. Let alone be used so well. Honestly I can see fitting these into my airframe much better than the tanks that are in there now. I've really got to check these out.
ORIGINAL: Gary Arthur
For what its worth, pop bottles are made from PET. They have excellent puncture and burst properties. They must withstand C02 and drop tests. In the industry, they are tersted to high pressure and drop testing for impact resistance. They have much better resistance to bursting or breaking than the kevlar tanks used in jets. Kevlar is ideal for molding to conformal tanks that fit well inside certain airframes but will break and splinter in a crash. Too many people slam the use of pop bottles because they are inexpensive, but in reality they are more suited to the task.
As for shampoo bottles, there are two types, PET and PE. PE is the same material the dubro tanks are made from. The difference is one loos clear like a pop bottle (PET) or cloudy/milky color (PE).
As for the closures, they are usually tested up to 150 psi for blow off consideration.
For what its worth, pop bottles are made from PET. They have excellent puncture and burst properties. They must withstand C02 and drop tests. In the industry, they are tersted to high pressure and drop testing for impact resistance. They have much better resistance to bursting or breaking than the kevlar tanks used in jets. Kevlar is ideal for molding to conformal tanks that fit well inside certain airframes but will break and splinter in a crash. Too many people slam the use of pop bottles because they are inexpensive, but in reality they are more suited to the task.
As for shampoo bottles, there are two types, PET and PE. PE is the same material the dubro tanks are made from. The difference is one loos clear like a pop bottle (PET) or cloudy/milky color (PE).
As for the closures, they are usually tested up to 150 psi for blow off consideration.
06-10-2013, 03:34 AM
#38
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
ORIGINAL: RCFlyerDan
OK! Argyris!
For all of our learning experience! Hypothetically, would you mind setting up the next test, since you are set up with the bottles and testing of them?
Plumb a bottle as a tank that you would use for a jet fuel system, as you have in previous pictures. For Saftey concern, fill the bottle/fuel tank half full of water. Have the vent going unrestricted to the out side, and have the main fuel line restricted, as going to the fuel pump at idle(because the pilot knows he is crashing, but doesn't turn the engine off). How much restriction should be at least half of the volume, if unrestricted fuel line to the pump. NOW, take a sledge hammer and hit it hard, with SAFTY Gogles on!!
See what happens! Again, I don't know the results, and thus asking to learn! Dan
OK! Argyris!
For all of our learning experience! Hypothetically, would you mind setting up the next test, since you are set up with the bottles and testing of them?
Plumb a bottle as a tank that you would use for a jet fuel system, as you have in previous pictures. For Saftey concern, fill the bottle/fuel tank half full of water. Have the vent going unrestricted to the out side, and have the main fuel line restricted, as going to the fuel pump at idle(because the pilot knows he is crashing, but doesn't turn the engine off). How much restriction should be at least half of the volume, if unrestricted fuel line to the pump. NOW, take a sledge hammer and hit it hard, with SAFTY Gogles on!!
See what happens! Again, I don't know the results, and thus asking to learn! Dan
Have you seen Gallagher? I believe he did a full line of testing various materials ... including shampoo bottles, kevlar tanks and watermellons!
06-10-2013, 04:25 AM
#39
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
FWIW Fiji bottles are common in gas applications and I've never split one, even in a violent crash in a 50cc 3D plane.
The Fiji bottles have a v shaped seal, not the soft rubber seal found on some water bottles.
The Fiji bottles have a v shaped seal, not the soft rubber seal found on some water bottles.
06-10-2013, 05:08 AM
#40
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RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
Here is the difference in the seal area. Lined closure vrs linerless (one piece). The seal on the one piece is much better under pressure.
06-10-2013, 05:22 AM
#41
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
Saw a neat demo of Fiji's at Nall. WrongWay RC makes these tanks including Viton and a ceramic clunk all heat shrinked, anyways, he says.
Open this water and drink some.
Now put the cap back on and as tight as you think you need to seal it.
Ok...
Now turn it over....no leak right? Right.
Loosen the cap an 1/8th of a turn and turn it over....no leak.
Do it again....no leak
Do it again....no leak
You get the idea...if felt like the cap was going to fall off before it leaked.
Open this water and drink some.
Now put the cap back on and as tight as you think you need to seal it.
Ok...
Now turn it over....no leak right? Right.
Loosen the cap an 1/8th of a turn and turn it over....no leak.
Do it again....no leak
Do it again....no leak
You get the idea...if felt like the cap was going to fall off before it leaked.
06-10-2013, 06:08 AM
#42
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
I have used 2 litre cider bottles as tanks in several models.
I have had two total write-off crashes of models using these bottles, in each of which the wooden fuselages disintegrated. Wot a mess!!
In both cases the fuel tank bounced out of the wreckage totally undamaged and could be used again (but I bought a new one anyway).
I have seen three jet crashes at our fieldin which the model had a moulded tank (glass fibre I expect) and in all three the tank had split, leaking fuel over the wreckage. The tanks always seem to split along the seams. Even kevlar tanks have seams, don't they?
This is not scientific testing, but I am not convinced that moulded tanks offer any better crash resistance. Where they score is in being able to fit theminto spaces in the airframe to make efficient use of the space. The middle photo shows the two tanks I moulded for my Falcon 120, one with a regular gas bung, the other with a cider bottle neck and cap moulded in.
The third photo is the cider bottle I used in my CARF New Rookie
I have had two total write-off crashes of models using these bottles, in each of which the wooden fuselages disintegrated. Wot a mess!!
In both cases the fuel tank bounced out of the wreckage totally undamaged and could be used again (but I bought a new one anyway).
I have seen three jet crashes at our fieldin which the model had a moulded tank (glass fibre I expect) and in all three the tank had split, leaking fuel over the wreckage. The tanks always seem to split along the seams. Even kevlar tanks have seams, don't they?
This is not scientific testing, but I am not convinced that moulded tanks offer any better crash resistance. Where they score is in being able to fit theminto spaces in the airframe to make efficient use of the space. The middle photo shows the two tanks I moulded for my Falcon 120, one with a regular gas bung, the other with a cider bottle neck and cap moulded in.
The third photo is the cider bottle I used in my CARF New Rookie
06-10-2013, 06:58 AM
#43
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RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey
Saw a neat demo of Fiji's at Nall. WrongWay RC makes these tanks including Viton and a ceramic clunk all heat shrinked, anyways, he says.
Open this water and drink some.
Now put the cap back on and as tight as you think you need to seal it.
Ok...
Now turn it over....no leak right? Right.
Loosen the cap an 1/8th of a turn and turn it over....no leak.
Do it again....no leak
Do it again....no leak
You get the idea...if felt like the cap was going to fall off before it leaked.
Saw a neat demo of Fiji's at Nall. WrongWay RC makes these tanks including Viton and a ceramic clunk all heat shrinked, anyways, he says.
Open this water and drink some.
Now put the cap back on and as tight as you think you need to seal it.
Ok...
Now turn it over....no leak right? Right.
Loosen the cap an 1/8th of a turn and turn it over....no leak.
Do it again....no leak
Do it again....no leak
You get the idea...if felt like the cap was going to fall off before it leaked.
A water closure must have advanced tamper evidence meaning the bridges must break before the seal releases to stop tampering or syringing of unfavorable substances. Carbonated closures such as pop bottle must vent the gases (Co2) prior to the bridges breaking to not allow closures to blow off. Carbonated closures are usually heavier to withstand the internal pressure whereas, water does not ahve the same pressure.
One piece closures usually can have about 90-180 degrees of rotation before losing the seal.
06-10-2013, 12:27 PM
#44
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RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
ORIGINAL: Pepperpete
As for the closures, they are usually tested up to 150 psi for blow off consideration.
As for the closures, they are usually tested up to 150 psi for blow off consideration.
[/quote]
Tensilized Polyester bottles used in soda pop applications can withstand a terrific amount of pressure. It is 100 psi minimum. Consider the amount of pressure CO2 gas generates inside in a 120 degree truck in the middle of summer.
Better yet, the amount of pressure generated whena water bottleis frozen, is several hundred psi. I have yet to see a frozen pet bottle rupture. The cap always blows off first.
BTW- the cosmo bottles as they are called (flat oval types) are available in 32 oz sizes. Square bottles are also available in 32 oz sizes. Buy them at......... several sources
06-23-2013, 08:39 AM
#45
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
After some test i decided to wrap the bottle with carbon fiber roving because i had problem with vacuum bottle deformation in first tank when the engine was at full throttle.I sanding all the bottle and i reinforcement with epoxy and carbon.The result was very nice, light weight, and very strong! with no deformation at all.
06-24-2013, 04:31 AM
#47
RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
ORIGINAL: Gary Arthur
here is another option CF tube
here is another option CF tube
06-24-2013, 08:57 PM
#48
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RE: Can shampoo bottles be used as kero tanks? Or just pop bottles?
I put 20 gallons of gasoline in my car, put my family in , go down the road at 65 MPH, close on an on coming car at 130 MPH (5 feet away), run over all kinds of debris, it has a super hot muffler and catalytic converter running underneath it, the engine returns engine heated gasoline back to the tank when running, the tank has a huge coarse thread O ring sealed opening for the fuel pump, and the fuel tank is made of what?........ HDPE. I'll take a HDPE tank over Kevlar, fiberglass or polycarbonate any day.
