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Slash Upgrades

Old 06-03-2013, 07:55 AM
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BrokenSpoke
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Default Slash Upgrades

My 11 year old son has had his 2WD Slash now for about a year and entered his first 'race' yesterday. He had a great time and like everyone else, wants to start improving the performance of his truck. I'm a plane guy so this whole truck thing is a little foreign to me. What would be the best upgrade path? Motor, suspension, body parts..? You get the idea.

Also, since we are working with my son's allowance, cost is a factor.
Old 06-03-2013, 02:24 PM
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Zonked
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Is his truck stock now and what are the rules regarding motor,battery, tires etc. There are several things you can do without spending much cash such as tweaking the suspension with different springs, fluid but the stock tires are more than likely gonna have to go .
Old 06-03-2013, 06:18 PM
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BrokenSpoke
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

His truck is bone stock and there really aren't any rules. It is just a summer series that the local hobby shop put on and he is racing in the under 15 class. They mix gas and electric together with no restrictions. They do it so that they can get kids into the store and give them a crack at racing.

I look forward to your suggestions.
Old 06-03-2013, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

most of the upgrades are not worth it. they are more for durability.

I say u have 2 options....

1, sell it, and get a rc that's designed for racing

2, convert it to a racing truck with 3 easy steps

step one, get a STRC LCG chassis full kit, about $80 (including rustler parts)..... best upgrade ever. makes a huge difference, more than tyres

Step Two, new wheels $30 new tyres $$45.... another big difference.... depending on track surface

Steo 3, New high flow/flo tec body $60 pluss paint. noticeable small difference, mainly on jumps.

Then there are some other things worth looking into down the track. like STRC suspension pins for one, and modifying/rebuilding a few of the stock parts
Old 06-04-2013, 07:42 AM
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Zonked
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades


ORIGINAL: BrokenSpoke

His truck is bone stock and there really aren't any rules. It is just a summer series that the local hobby shop put on and he is racing in the under 15 class. They mix gas and electric together with no restrictions. They do it so that they can get kids into the store and give them a crack at racing.

I look forward to your suggestions.
Cool. Very fun truck to learn with and in a stock class is just as much fun as any other truck. Setups help and sometimes they help a lot but nothing will help him more than practice.

Posted Steve Slaydens 2wd setup below and the only other suggestion's would be to pick up a lipo if your ESC is equipped with a low voltage cutoff, will see noticeable difference in acceleration while also reducing the truck's weight. Ask around and find out what tires are being used locally.



Suspension Adjustments

Since everyone has the same amount of horsepower in a stock-Slash race, a well-sorted suspension system is the single biggest advantage you can give your machine on the racetrack. The heart of any suspension system is the shock absorbers, and the Slash's shocks are fully tunable. Although springs of different rates can be installed, most tracks' stock-Slash rules do not permit spring changes. With that in mind, let's focus on the adjustments we can make within the rules. These include spring preload and ride height, damping rate, and shock position (see right).

Shock oil

The Slash shocks come filled with 30wt shock fluid. This allows the suspension to absorb bumps easily at slower speeds. However, with the fast-paced action of track racing and hard landings from big jumps, slowing down the dampers by increasing the oil viscosity is generally beneficial. This keeps the chassis from bottoming out harshly and better manages weight transfer under accelleration and braking. I fill the front shocks with 50wt shock fluid and the rears with 60wt shock fluid. The front end of the Slash is much lighter than the rear end. This allows a lighter damping setup to be used up front to balance out the overall feel and sets the chassis up nicely in the corners. The 60wt oil in the rear shocks provides ample 'pack' for jump landings and keeps chassis roll to a minimum.


Shock Preload and Ride Height

How much preload you need to tune into the shocks depends on how much traction and weight transfer you're looking for. The type of battery pack also plays a big part in this. Heavier battery packs, such as 6 or 7-cell NiMH battery packs will require an extra preload clip or two to achieve the same ride height versus a lightweight LiPo battery pack.



It's also important to note that when setting proper ride height, the truck should be ready to drive. This means the battery should be installed and the body should be mounted (The body was removed in the photos for better visual). Pump the front and rear suspension by hand a few times (evenly, front to back) and let go. Note where the chassis settles. A good base setup is with the rear drive shafts set a little below level, and with the front suspension arms set level with the surface. This allows a slightly lower rear stance, which provides a good weight transfer entering a corner. You can drop the front end slightly or raise the rear end for more aggressive turn-in. Raising the rear end will also provide a little more on-power grip by keeping more weight directly above the rear tires during acceleration.

Shock Position

The lower position of each shock can be adjusted to achieve different handling characteristics. There are two positions located on each front suspension and there are five possible positions on each the rear suspension arms. Moving the shocks outward on the arms will decrease the leverage the arms have to compress the shock, making the suspension feel stiffer. Moving the shocks inward on the arms has the opposite effect. The angle of the shock also changes as you move them in or out on the arms, and this effects their spring and damping rates. The closer the shocks get to vertical, the less the spring and damping rates will change from full extension to full compression. The more the shocks are laid down, the greater the difference in rate change; the spring and damping rates increase as the shock is compressed.


Shock position also affects the overall down travel of the suspension arm. Down travel is reduced by moving the lower shock mount further away from the chassis. Getting an ample amount of down travel is what should be looked at first, and then you can determine what damping rate is desired. Remember that if you change shock position to alter down travel, then the damping and spring rate will also change, according to which direction the shocks are moved.


My base setup for shock position up front is the inner hole. Out back, I start with the second hole from the inside. This setup offers ample down travel to soak up bumps and jumps. Smooth tracks with small jumps can benefit from moving the shock positions out one hole. This will reduce body roll and enhance the truck's agility. However, on a bumpy track, a lack of down travel will cause the chassis to bounce and upset handling.



Alignment

Proper alignment settings are a very important part of setup. An ill-handling truck can be fixed in many cases just by correcting the camber and toe settings. When adjusting chassis alignment settings, always remember that it's most important that the left and right sides are set and adjusted equally.



Toe (front only)

Toe angle is described as the direction the wheels are pointing (in relation to one another) when looking down at the chassis from above. The rear toe angle is not adjustable on the Slash. The toe angle is preset by the factory and is built into the rear suspension design. Adjusting the front toe angle is easily done by changing the length of the steering links. With the front wheels pointed straight ahead, check to see if the fronts of the tires are pointed in toward each other or away from each other. A zero toe angle is when both the left and right side tires are pointing perfectly straight ahead with no angle.



On two-wheel drive vehicles, the front toe angle is generally set with small angles. Pointing the fronts of the tires inward (toe-in) provides better straight-line stability and more steering through and out of a corner. Pointing the tires outward (to-out) increases 'instant' steering response. It never hurts to run zero toe up front on a two-drive chassis, but if you're looking for a slight change in steering sensitivity, then try making small adjustments to the front toe angle. My base front toe setting for the Slash is 1.0-degree of toe out per side.



Camber Front and Rear

Camber defines the angle at which the tops of the front and rear tires are leaned in from a perpendicular (wheels straight up and down – no angle) setting. This is known as 'negative' camber. Positive camber is when the tops of the tires are leaned outward, and is very rarely used. There are different ways to measure camber, but the most common method is to measure the angle when the truck is resting at its race-ready ride height.

Tuning in negative camber is very common in on and off-road racing. The angle of the tire changes as the chassis leans into and through a corner. The outside of the tire digs into the surface while the inside of the tires lift up away from the surface. This changes the contact patch of the tire in relation to the ground. It's ideal to keep as much of the contact patch connected to the surface through a corner as possible. However, it is sometimes necessary to detune (decrease) the contact patch to scrub the ruts and imperfections on the track surface.



Front

My base front camber setting is -2.0 degree. This means that the angle of the tires point inward toward the chassis is set at 2.0 degree from straight up and down. This allows a good contact patch through the corner. I'll dial in more camber angle on heavily rutted tracks.

Rear

My base rear camber setting is -2.5 degree from perpendicular. The rear camber changes more drastically as the suspension arms move up and down through the entire range. I'll make changes to the rear camber setting based on how much rear traction is needed for the current track conditions.

Roll Center (rear only)

There are two different roll center positions located on the rear shock tower of the Slash, upper and lower. Basically, this changes the inner location of the upper camber link. The lower (stock) location provides the most stability for the rear end, but if you're looking for more steering and turn-in, the upper position will help.

The upper camber link controls the camber angle as the wheel moves up and down through the suspension range. The lower adjustment position increases the angle of the camber more progressively as the suspension arm is compressed through its upstroke. This generally improves or maintains an ample level of traction as the chassis leans into a corner. The upper adjustment position allows the contact patch to decrease slightly as the truck leans in a corner, which slightly reduces overall grip though the corner. This frees up the rear end to rotate more aggressively, thus enhancing turn-in. I use the lower (stock) location as a base setup on my Slash, and in the event I need more turn-in on a very tight track, then I'll change to the upper position.

Note: when using the upper rear camber link position, a small amount of material will need to be removed from the shock tower just above the camber link. This is for proper clearance to attain full up travel from the suspension.

Differential

The differential inside the transmission of the Slash is a planetary gear-type differential and is not sealed. However, it is still tunable. There are multiple ways of changing the 'action' of the diff, but the longest lasting method that I've found, without having to have special tools to modify the diff case is to use a very thick diff lube, but only use a little bit though. The thick fluid will not escape as easily, and when only a small amount is used, the results can be very effective without being too tight.

I use 300Kwt diff fluid in the diff. Remove the factory grease from inside the diff case using a rag, and apply a small amount (approx 25% to 30% full) of 300Kwt diff fluid to the gears inside of the case. An alternative to get the same action would be to fill the diff case up with 10K to 20K weight fluid, but then the lighter viscosity will leak out over a short period of time. The 300K holds up and stays consistent for many weeks of racing. Experiment by trying different amounts of 300K fluid to get your ideal result.


Old 06-04-2013, 09:16 AM
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BrokenSpoke
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Thanks for the setup guide. I took a quick look and it seems well thought out and easy to follow. I had no idea there were that many adjustments possible on this truck.

I have a question about the STRC LCG chassis kit mentioned by phmaximus. According to their site, using the Rustler chassis it will lower the battery by two inches. If that's attainable, it would seem to put the battery almost on the ground as I don't think I have 2 inches of ground clearance. For a 'short course' truck this has me a little confused as it would seem to allow the truck to bottom out on almost any jump / bump.
Old 06-04-2013, 09:35 AM
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Zonked
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades


ORIGINAL: BrokenSpoke

Thanks for the setup guide. I took a quick look and it seems well thought out and easy to follow. I had no idea there were that many adjustments possible on this truck.

I have a question about the STRC LCG chassis kit mentioned by phmaximus. According to their site, using the Rustler chassis it will lower the battery by two inches. If that's attainable, it would seem to put the battery almost on the ground as I don't think I have 2 inches of ground clearance. For a 'short course' truck this has me a little confused as it would seem to allow the truck to bottom out on almost any jump / bump.
It lowers the center of gravity on the truck. If you notice the electronics all set very high in the slash and what the STRC conversion does is lower the center of the truck.

I have the Anza conversion (pictured below) which will give you an idea of how the truck is closer to the ground.




Just wanted to add that all these conversions are not neccesary upfront. The stock truck gives you everything you need starting out as no amount of hop-ups will replace track time.

Losi XXX springs fit the traxxas shocks perfect and is a worth while investment. The traxxas springs are too soft.
Fronts
A-5128 2" Spring 2.5 Rate (Red)
A-5129 2" Spring 2.9 Rate (Orange)
A-5130 2" Spring 3.2 Rate (Silver)
A-5132 2" Spring 3.5 Rate (Green)
A-5134 2" Spring 3.8 Rate (Blue)
A-5135 2" Spring 4.1 Rate (Black)

Rears
A-5150 2.5" Spring 2.3 Rate (Pink)
A-5152 2.5" Spring 2.6 Rate (Red)
A-5154 2.5" Spring 2.9 Rate (Orange)
A-5156 2.5" Spring 3.4 Rate (Silver)
A-5158 2.5" Spring 3.7 Rate (Green)
A-5160 2.5" Spring 4.1 Rate (Blue)

I would start out with blue front and green rear.
Old 06-04-2013, 10:10 AM
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BrokenSpoke
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Well it looks like I stand corrected. Based on the pictures you posted, there is enough clearance. For starters though, I think I will follow the suggestion in your setup post, order the springs, shock oil, and order two LiPo's for his truck as I do remember reading in the manual that there is a low voltage setting for the ESC. Then, like anything else, lots and lots of track time.
Old 06-04-2013, 10:33 AM
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Zonked
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Yeah the LCG chassis just lowers the middle of the truck so you would still have plenty of suspension travel to soak up any jump you may find on a track. LOL yes practice is everything. once you have everything lined out and still feel you need more performance you could upgrade to a different truck or just get a LCGchassis.

Have fun and post up if you have any more questions.
Old 06-04-2013, 10:43 AM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades


ORIGINAL: Zonked

LOL yes practice is everything.
Try to convince an 11 year old of that. Thanks again for all the help
Old 06-04-2013, 10:50 AM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades


ORIGINAL: BrokenSpoke


ORIGINAL: Zonked

LOL yes practice is everything.
Try to convince an 11 year old of that. Thanks again for all the help
There is 30yr olds who have a hard time understanding that lol. Anytime

Old 06-04-2013, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

ORIGINAL: BrokenSpoke

Well it looks like I stand corrected. Based on the pictures you posted, there is enough clearance. For starters though, I think I will follow the suggestion in your setup post, order the springs, shock oil, and order two LiPo's for his truck as I do remember reading in the manual that there is a low voltage setting for the ESC. Then, like anything else, lots and lots of track time.
Personally wouldent recomend springs and shocks yet... They are getting more into advanced adjustments.
If he is pulling very consistant lap times then it's worth it. If he is not and still learning, how would u know what spring to use. Same with oils. He really needs to practice and get consistant. Once he is at that point that's when it's worth messing with the shocks and even suspension setup. Otherwise u will never notice the effects of the adjustments.

Playing with those setting can hurt preformance, that's why I think the 3 mods I suggested will make and skill level driver pull faster laps.

Things that effect the cars setup,
electronic gear
Weight
Driver style
Track surface
Track layout

As u can see there are so many factors that it's safe to say there is no magic setup that will work for everyone. Everyone's setup is slightly different. Most of these settings are more for driving on the edge of the cars handling limit. So are best to be left untill u are at a point where u are consistant and looking to get faster.

Ur best bet would be follow a stock slash setup for now, and JST really make sure everything is even and moving freely

I second the Losi springs.... I'm running losi XXX springs and shocks...
Old 06-05-2013, 06:29 AM
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BrokenSpoke
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

phmaximus -

Sometimes he is setting consistant laps, other times not so much due to the poor handling of the truck. My plan is to set up the truck as suggested by Zonked and use that as a starting point. The shock oil cost (1 bottle of 50wt for the front and 1 bottle of 60wt for the rear) and spring cost (blue for the front and green for the rear) were negligible. Again, this will be a baseline for him and anything will be better than his current setup.

Once we establish a baseline, and his laps get more consistant, then we can begin making subtle changes to the truck and see the outcome. Probably the first change will be new tires but I'll have to see what otheres are running at the track. The one probable change that really intrigues me is the STRC LCG chassis full kit you suggested.
Old 06-05-2013, 04:11 PM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Ahh cool, good to hear he is getting there.
I don't think there will be a day and night difference using Steve Slaydens setup that Zonked posted. In fact I'm very doubtfull there will be a noticeable difference, and that setup could make the slash handle worse on a bumpy track too.... U should do the mods and not tell ur son, if he noticed that it handles better, money well spent. But if he does not notice... We'll u get the idea.

The chances are that Steve and ur son have completely different driving styles, and I bet the tracks are totally different.

A Slash with a well setup suspension still will have no real chance at racing 99% of the other SCT out there. If u want him to have a chance against say a losi or Team Assioated a LCG chassis is the first starting point. Then suspension setups.. Seriously

Personally I would use that cash to yes buy some different oils to experiment with and even some o ring lube, but most importantly a suspension hole reamer and some decent suspension pins.

The stock lower arm pins are fixed to the rear arms and don't rotate off the arms they only rotate in the gearbox, they have a tendency of backing out.
STRC has a pin kit that uses a nut of the end of the pin. This allows the suspension to rotate on the arms, gearbox and allows the pin itself to rotate. And if u ream the suspension holes on all the arms, front bulkhead and gearbox u will have silky smoothe suspension... Excluding shocks
Old 06-05-2013, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades


ORIGINAL: phmaximus

Ahh cool, good to hear he is getting there.
I don't think there will be a day and night difference using Steve Slaydens setup that Zonked posted. In fact I'm very doubtfull there will be a noticeable difference, and that setup could make the slash handle worse on a bumpy track too.... U should do the mods and not tell ur son, if he noticed that it handles better, money well spent. But if he does not notice... We'll u get the idea.

The chances are that Steve and ur son have completely different driving styles, and I bet the tracks are totally different.

A Slash with a well setup suspension still will have no real chance at racing 99% of the other SCT out there. If u want him to have a chance against say a losi or Team Assioated a LCG chassis is the first starting point. Then suspension setups.. Seriously

Personally I would use that cash to yes buy some different oils to experiment with and even some o ring lube, but most importantly a suspension hole reamer and some decent suspension pins.

The stock lower arm pins are fixed to the rear arms and don't rotate off the arms they only rotate in the gearbox, they have a tendency of backing out.
STRC has a pin kit that uses a nut of the end of the pin. This allows the suspension to rotate on the arms, gearbox and allows the pin itself to rotate. And if u ream the suspension holes on all the arms, front bulkhead and gearbox u will have silky smoothe suspension... Excluding shocks
can't disagree with this
High COG vehicles handle like crap next to the ones that put the COG closer to the ground.
I don't race, but can say when I dropped my COG on my MT's by an inch the handling improved 10 fold as I no longer had to fight to keep the truck on its wheels when it turned. I mention this cause I had a slash 4X4, and had to fight with it to keep its on its wheels can't imagine the 2wd being that much different(well 2wd is more difficult to drive) in this regard
Old 06-06-2013, 08:12 AM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades


ORIGINAL: BrokenSpoke

My 11 year old son has had his 2WD Slash now for about a year and entered his first 'race' yesterday. He had a great time and like everyone else, wants to start improving the performance of his truck. I'm a plane guy so this whole truck thing is a little foreign to me. What would be the best upgrade path? Motor, suspension, body parts..? You get the idea.

Also, since we are working with my son's allowance, cost is a factor.
All of my suggestions was based upon the original post by BrokenSpoke. Someone starting out has no need to spend hundred's of dollars when they can learn suspension tuning/setups that cost's very little while still enjoying their truck.

In stock class the 2wd slash can and does perform very well.

Old 06-06-2013, 11:23 AM
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BrokenSpoke
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Zonked - Thanks for the reply and you understood my original post. In addition to trying to make my sons truck better, I am also trying to teach him about saving his money, the value of work, the reason you practice something, etc. Just the basic life lessons that an 11 year old needs to learn. Yes, I could go out and spend money on LCG kits, rims, tires, different shocks, brushless motors, etc., but me spending my money is not the point. With the exception of replacement batteries or any high cost item that breaks, we are working with my son's allowance as a budget which means for the most part working with what he currently has and making improvements that he can afford. The LCG chassis I'm sure would make a huge improvement but it would also take 3 months of his allowance to save up for it.

We spent about $12 for the shock oil and springs and will use the setup post as a starting point. Will it be ideal, probably not. Will it be better than what his current truck set up is, probably since no changes have been made to the truck at all sine he took it out of the box.

At the end of the day it's all about fun and while the Slash is not the best SCT out there it has more than withstood the learning curve and related mishaps that an 11 year old has put it through.
Old 06-06-2013, 12:15 PM
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Zonked
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

@BrokenSpoke

No problem, believe the young man will some improvement once on the track. Of course these guides are just good starting point so dont be afraid to experiment with different weight fluids etc. Have fun and let us know how he does.
Old 06-07-2013, 12:07 AM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

I still think it's a great idea to set the suspension working silky smoothe... There is nothing majorly wrong with the stock slash springs and shocks. If fact it would be worth rebuilding the shocks and adjusting the seals they are never even.

Freeing up the suspension is allso a great way to see how it all workes and goes together.


I cant stress how good the LCG conversions are, but I totally under stand it's not so freezable if it's 3 months of saving.
If it was me I would nearly do it for him, so he has a good starting point for racing for the next few years untill he is 15.

Doesent matter really, as long as he is having fun, good luck

Hey just wondering.... He is in a open SCT class and that the track like?

If ya want I can write up a list of the best cheap mods?
Between a rustler and a slash and now a LCG slash I've learnt some things that might be worth a try
Old 06-07-2013, 06:16 AM
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BrokenSpoke
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Here is a link to a video someone took of the track. It's pretty hard pack with a layer of loose marbles in most of the turns.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5e8N-8nk8c[/youtube]
Old 06-07-2013, 06:58 AM
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Zonked
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Nice big track   Would be nice if you could get those big jumps transformed into doubles.
Old 06-09-2013, 12:36 AM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Cool track... Not what I was expecting but never the less it's cool.

From the looks the track is all about speed and high speed on a very slippery surface....

The stock tyres are going to be kind of useless on that track.

U are going to need a setup more focused on straight line traction And decent brakes.
Old 06-09-2013, 12:49 AM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Check out this setup.... It's the same setup but with photos

http://traxxas.com/node/10068

I woud recomend something similar to start with.

Allso jam at least 60g weights under the ESC, for some more pulling power and more controllable drifts, and highly recomend doing the diff oil mod for some better braking and pulling out of the wider bends

Allso recomend a softer oil than 50r 60f because of the poor traction, maby just experiment with that one
Old 06-09-2013, 10:34 AM
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Thanks everyone for the help. I took my son to the track today and it is much more stable than before. With the stock setup the truck would hop around alot and not stay smooth. With the changes, it is a much smoother truck, thus more controllable. As for the tires, agreed they are not a good match for the track so that will be the next purchase. The next 'race' isn't until the first Sunday in July so there is lots of time to practice and mess with the setup.

Any suggestion on tires for this track?
Old 06-09-2013, 11:57 AM
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Zonked
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Default RE: Slash Upgrades

Good deal. Dont be afraid to experiment with shock fluids, springs or make chassis adjustments but just make one at a time.

I use DTX posse or Pro-Line Tazers in dusty conditions like yours. If they will water the track a few times a week it will come around

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