Notices
KingTech Turbines International Barry is your host and will help you with all your Kingtech questions and concerns.

Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Old 06-10-2013, 04:53 PM
  #1  
marquisvns
Thread Starter
 
marquisvns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,816
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Due to the recent number of premature bearing replacements required we have decided to prohibit the use of Aeroshell 500. The amount of contamination in the bearing and chamber has been directly and consistently linked to the use of this oil in KingTech engines and as far as we know, KingTech engines only.

If you must use turbine oil in order to be compatible with the rest of your fleet, please use BP 2380 or Mobile Jet II, basically anything but Aeroshell 500, otherwise, please look into KingTech blend which is non carcinogenic and proven to have the best results in lubrication and reliability of our engines.

http://www.kingtechturbines.com/stor...products_id=54

Regards,
Barry
Old 06-11-2013, 03:48 AM
  #2  
aquaskiman
My Feedback: (46)
 
aquaskiman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sedalia, CO
Posts: 1,157
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Berry I just sent you a e-mail for some more Kingtech oil. George
Old 06-11-2013, 05:47 AM
  #3  
Dr Honda
My Feedback: (4)
 
Dr Honda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 2,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Hi Barry,


I'm not trying to start an argument, or debate... but I'm very interested in the new 55 (or I guess it's a 60 now)... and especially the 35 when it's released.

Because of that... I'm curious to know why KingTech is having issues with the 2 top rated oils? (DTE and 500) What is the exact mode of failure? (gum, over heat, stuck pre-load, etc)

Thanks for any info.
Old 06-11-2013, 09:06 AM
  #4  
marquisvns
Thread Starter
 
marquisvns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,816
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Hi Tony, I would say the number one failure with Aeroshell 500 would be the carbon built up in and around the bearings, as you could clearly see in the pictures from Dirk's posts.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11492501/tm.htm In fact, he said that the bearing on the right was after he soaked it in the solvent tank and the crusty carbon is very difficult or impossible to clean off and has also coated the balls of the bearing.

Perhaps Dirk could chime in to tell us more...

Regards,
Barry
Old 06-11-2013, 01:35 PM
  #5  
grbaker
My Feedback: (29)
 
grbaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: La Porte TX
Posts: 3,566
Received 26 Likes on 19 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Barry, do you know if the problems with Aeroshell 500 are restricted to it being used with diesel or are the problems showing up when mixed with kero also?
Old 06-11-2013, 05:32 PM
  #6  
Dr Honda
My Feedback: (4)
 
Dr Honda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 2,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Thanks for the link. I'll go check it out.
Old 06-11-2013, 08:42 PM
  #7  
marquisvns
Thread Starter
 
marquisvns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,816
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited


ORIGINAL: grbaker

Barry, do you know if the problems with Aeroshell 500 are restricted to it being used with diesel or are the problems showing up when mixed with kero also?
Hi Gary, the coking from Aeroshell 500 has been consistent regardless of types of fuel being mixed with, whether Diesel, Jet A or Kero, or mixed blend.

Barry
Old 06-12-2013, 06:48 AM
  #8  
flejter1
 
flejter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oak Hills, CA
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited



Hi Tony,

I am an Ex USMC, CH-53 Crew Chief and have been a mechanic since I could pick up a tool. I take mental notes while repairing our turbines and I noticed some were very clean and others had a very bad carbon build up throughout the internals and especially in the rear bearings. We then added the section to our service request form, what oils & fuels our customers are using for our own data compilation. After numerous repairs in the past two years, I found the common denominator of excessive carbon buildup was Aeroshell 500 oil. I shared my observations with Barry and the Factory. We now have seen enough problems to make the announcement to prohibit the use of Aeroshell 500 with our KingTech Turbines.


I have seen in as little as 30 minutes of run time with Aeroshell 500, a coking problem already starting on a recent crashed K-100. The bearing picture I posted in our clinic section was actually after I soaked it in my parts cleaning tank and tried to save the bearing. The balls and races feel like sand is permanently embedded and just gets worse over time. I have seen the coking build up so bad that the bearing would no longer turn. I will have to literally scrape the carbon out of the combustion chambers from turbines ran with Aeroshell 500.


Most other oils leave a brown tarnishing, and as you can see from the pictures, the KingTech oil leaves almost no tarnishing and still looks new. Fortunately for our service center and our customers, I am not just a parts changer; I actually question findings with the Barry and the Factory. We are always working together to produce the best and most reliable turbine on the market and keep them running healthy. I understand other manufactures endorse Aeroshell 500, but their turbines are not built like ours and we know what works best for us. The bottom line is, if you want a Healthy KingTech Turbine, DON'T USE AEROSHELL 500!!

Hope this answers your question,


Dirk Flejter

KingTech Service

Old 06-12-2013, 10:09 AM
  #9  
Dr Honda
My Feedback: (4)
 
Dr Honda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 2,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Hi Dirk,


Thanks for the info, and the pics.

From what I'm seeing... that's kind of typical when syth oils hit their burning point. (hard carbon, or a hard tar type substance) And let's face it... these oils were never meant to be burnt. They recirculate in a big engine.

So... either the other oils burn easier (ie cleaner) or... not at all. (curious)

Regardless... I guess Kingtech engine have a little more heat in the bearing tubes, over other engines. Not necessarily a bad thing, if you have an oil that works, and the pre-load system has enough movement to cover the growth.



I just got away from 500 myself, because of the toxic issues... but I want to be able to run one oil.


Since I have your attention... and not to take it of topic... but was the DTE doing the same thing??? Or was it just leaving flats in the balls?
Old 06-13-2013, 07:29 AM
  #10  
flejter1
 
flejter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oak Hills, CA
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Tony,

If you operated our engines, you will see that the actual run temp, is on the cooler side of the temp range. To say it’s the heat of our turbine that is causing Aeroshell to build up? Why do the other oil brands perform better in the same Turbine, bearings and chambers? I think the other oils might burn/vaporize better than others. Once the fuel/oil passes through the bearings, it’s done its job and does not need to stick around and build up carbon.


My observations pertaining to other oils are as follows;

1. Aeroshell 500, leaves a heavy carbon buildup in & on the bearings, inside & outside the combustion chamber, on the shaft tunnel, in the NGV and the inside of the housing.

2. Mobile jet II, leaves a very dark black tarnishing with some light - medium coking buildup in the bearings, chamber & NGV.

3. DTE, light leaves a Tan to medium brownish tarnishing with some coking build up in the bearings & chamber.

4. KingTech oil leaves a very light to none existent tarnishing and almost no coking in the chamber.



I don't have enough data to speak of other oil products, as these are the most commonly reported and used.



As for DTE leaving flats on the balls, I have not personally witnessed that.



Thanks for the input and participation,



Dirk Flejter

KingTech Service

Old 06-13-2013, 08:42 AM
  #11  
gunradd
My Feedback: (9)
 
gunradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springhill, FL
Posts: 3,426
Received 50 Likes on 43 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Dirk how about Aeroshell 560? I will probably running that when my JetII stash runs out.
Old 06-13-2013, 10:41 AM
  #12  
Dr Honda
My Feedback: (4)
 
Dr Honda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 2,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

ORIGINAL: flejter1

Tony,

If you operated our engines, you will see that the actual run temp, is on the cooler side of the temp range.
Sure... but if there is less bypass air, into the bearing tube... then the internal temps, within the tube can be higher than another manufacture. Obviously, it's a moot point, since we (as hobbyists) don't monitor bypass temps.

But, this could be a reason why my old AMT's love 500... and the KingTech doesn't. And I have my suspicions that my little wren44 didn't like it either.


ORIGINAL: flejter1

As for DTE leaving flats on the balls, I have not personally witnessed that.


I know Berry was saying, the guys down in OZ were having issues with the DTE, but it wasn't a big problem in the USA. I figure I would just pick your brain a little.


Sorry if I was getting a little deep on this. I'm a Physicist, who snapped... left my comfy day job in a lab... and opened a custom motorcycle shop. (and have turned machinist, engineer) So... I don't like "Black box" answers, of... "It doesn't work, don't use it". (LOL)

But... as I said... I stopped using 500 anyway.
Old 06-13-2013, 02:04 PM
  #13  
marquisvns
Thread Starter
 
marquisvns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,816
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Kris, I actually spoke to Shell Tech Adviser at Houston. He said Aeroshell 500 being their first gen turbine oil really is an old formula and not at all surprised with our result, but your 560 being their gen III should be way better. So we'd be happy to give you a full report when the time comes.

Tony, here are some data I gathered on the flash points of different oils:

Aeroshell 500 at 280C
Mobil Jet II at 265C
KingTech Oil 209C

We formulate our oil to be burnt off easily and cleanly at a lower temperatures in comparison to most of turbine oils which has a minimum required flash point of 260C. Since our EGT is generally lower in its class, and like Dirk mentioned, that during engine running the oil is constantly being injected, ie. replaced and then burnt off, I respectfully think, it just may or may not be the contrary to your assumption that why KingTech is incompatible to Aeroshell 500.

Regards,
Barry
Old 06-13-2013, 04:39 PM
  #14  
Dr Honda
My Feedback: (4)
 
Dr Honda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Latrobe, PA
Posts: 2,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited


ORIGINAL: marquisvns

..... the flash points of different oils:

Aeroshell 500 at 280C
Mobil Jet II at 265C
KingTech Oil 209C

.... I respectfully think, it just may or may not be the contrary to your assumption that why KingTech is incompatible to Aeroshell 500.

Regards,
Barry

I think you are right. The engine is running cooler,and it's not burning off the 500 properly, and it leaves the carbon.

Thanks for the insight.
Old 06-13-2013, 05:54 PM
  #15  
johnra1
Member
 
johnra1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Hello Kingtech, Is higher spec Shell Turbine oil ok. I have been using Shell 560 or Shell 555 for a while now on a different brand Turbine without an issue. Regards John
Old 06-21-2013, 05:19 AM
  #16  
bjnginge
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: sunshine coast, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Hello, can we get the kingtech blend in australia. If not what is the best to use ?
mobil jet2 ?
Old 06-21-2013, 08:57 AM
  #17  
smchale
My Feedback: (67)
 
smchale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Barry,
Can you email me a data sheet on your oil? The 2 gallons arrived this week (thanks!) and I'm going to switch over. Want to ensure that my other brand turbine (BF) will be Ok using it so I can continue with a single fuel supply.
Old 06-21-2013, 10:12 PM
  #18  
marquisvns
Thread Starter
 
marquisvns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,816
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited


ORIGINAL: johnra1

Hello Kingtech, Is higher spec Shell Turbine oil ok. I have been using Shell 560 or Shell 555 for a while now on a different brand Turbine without an issue. Regards John
Hi John, we don't have much data on 560 nor 555, but as mentioned before Shell tech adviser did mention that 560 is a much more advanced turbine oil than the 500. If you choose to run 560 or 555, will back you up 100%.

Regards,
Barry
Old 06-21-2013, 10:13 PM
  #19  
marquisvns
Thread Starter
 
marquisvns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,816
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited


ORIGINAL: bjnginge

Hello, can we get the kingtech blend in australia. If not what is the best to use ?
mobil jet2 ?
Hi bj, Ken Mollison and I are talking about getting KingTech blend available in Australia, please get in touch with him.

Regards,
Barry
Old 06-21-2013, 10:15 PM
  #20  
marquisvns
Thread Starter
 
marquisvns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,816
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited


ORIGINAL: smchale

Barry,
Can you email me a data sheet on your oil? The 2 gallons arrived this week (thanks!) and I'm going to switch over. Want to ensure that my other brand turbine (BF) will be Ok using it so I can continue with a single fuel supply.
Sean, like we discussed over the phone, the main difference between our oil and most turbine oil is the lower flash point.

Regards,
Barry
Old 06-22-2013, 04:22 PM
  #21  
johnra1
Member
 
johnra1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Hello Barry,
Thanks for the reply. I look forward to running my new K 140.

Regards


John
Old 07-02-2013, 06:39 AM
  #22  
Gonzalo38
 
Gonzalo38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Santiago, CHILE
Posts: 1,133
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Are you guys allowing the use of Aeroshell 560 ?
Old 07-02-2013, 07:54 AM
  #23  
gunradd
My Feedback: (9)
 
gunradd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springhill, FL
Posts: 3,426
Received 50 Likes on 43 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited


ORIGINAL: Gonzalo38

Are you guys allowing the use of Aeroshell 560 ?
Yes 560 is the newest generation oil and is ok per Dirk and Barry so far. I will be switching to 560 soon also since my mobil jet II stash is almost gone.
Old 07-05-2013, 01:57 PM
  #24  
marquisvns
Thread Starter
 
marquisvns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,816
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited


ORIGINAL: marquisvns


ORIGINAL: smchale

Barry,
Can you email me a data sheet on your oil? The 2 gallons arrived this week (thanks!) and I'm going to switch over. Want to ensure that my other brand turbine (BF) will be Ok using it so I can continue with a single fuel supply.
Sean, like we discussed over the phone, the main difference between our oil and most turbine oil is the lower flash point.

Regards,
Barry
Here are some physical characteristics for your reference:

Kinematic Viscosity
40C cSt 32
100C cSt 5.7
Viscosity Index 101
Density @15C kg/l 0.868
Flash Point C 210
Maximum Pour Point, C -30
Old 07-18-2013, 11:33 AM
  #25  
megafly
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sao PauloSao Paulo, BRAZIL
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited

Hi Barry, I don't kinow if you are receiving my e-mails.
I need the internal burner for my k80f.
Thanks a lot


Sergio.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.