Steve Percifield

My Feedback: (14)

guys, right now there are 38 states with legislation on the table to control or outlaw FPV. The AMA's warning is an attempt to enlighten those that think they can do whatever, and then proudly post it on Youtube. The AMA issued their "rules" for FPV flying, last year, in hopes to preserve it. The awaited FAA regulations will outlaw it. Unless they see we can regulate ourselves.

rivnut13

My Feedback: (24)

On your six is obviously a FPV flier and is well aware of the rules and wants nothing to do with them, or maybe he isn't aware, so let me lay some facts down. The FAA doesn't like the word "rules" they prefer the word "Regulations" I have been involved in full scale aviation basically my entire life, and I can tell you that the FAA is VERY serious about them. Here's the deal, as I understand it. the NPRM that everyone was up in arms about was written very carefully, for the FAA and the AMA, you don't have to read the whole thing because you already know most of it, it is basically the AMA guidelines for the operation of model aircraft. There is one phrase that makes all the difference, and that is the phrase "within visual range of the operator", and here's what the AMA wants you to know. As soon as your FPV is out of sight of you, it is no longer a "model aircraft" it is basically a regular aircraft (or RPV) and is subject to all the regulations that govern them, and as a regular aircraft (or RPV) you are no longer covered by your AMA insurance, and well beyong their scope of coverage. If you take pictures from it fine, but, if those pictures end up on a website, for say a real estate company, now you fall into all the regulations for a Part 141 Aircraft for Hire. Which makes matters for you much, much worse. And, at that point, if your FPV/RPV crashes and causes property damage, or worse, interacts with a full scale aircraft and causes loss of life you are in BIG BIG trouble. If someone even SEES it and they track you down you are in BIG BIG trouble. Don't think so? The first thing they'll ask you for is the aircraft logs, and airworthiness certificate and so on and so on...not to mention your pilot's certificate. (that i believe is already in the works for RPV) The FAA regs are FEDERAL LAWS and carry the burden and punishments of FEDERAL LAW. If you don't think your local FSDO will make a large and public example of you over your $500 FPV/RPV block of foam you are sorely mistaken.

The AMA is doing it's job by advising you of this on the page across from a full page ad in THEIR magazine. There is a huge difference once that model leaves your sight.The RPV/FPR has a future in model aviation, but it is most certainly not THE future of model aviation.

Charlie P.

if we don't police ourselves some agency will take on that role. 

What you do on your propertry is your business.  But as soon as you step off it some agency somewhere wants control and taxing authority on everything you do.  They will get it as soon as someone starts a brushfire or smashes a school window, etc.  and it gets enough coverage. 

Who would have thought they could outlaw pistol and rifle magazines in NY?  Happened in a blur in the dark of the night without a public comment period.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Regardless of which side your views fall on, please remember to discuss the issue at hand, in a respectful manner.

Personal attacks and snide remarks will not be tolerated.

raptureboy

Cigarettes, alcohol, guns, ammo and a host of other products are doing quite well with all the warnings they carry mandated by the government. Maybe you would rather have the government force a warning on you. If you don't like the AMA don't join and don't read the ads they provide. Vendors are free to advertise where they want butI bet they pay more to be in a magazine like MAN than MA. $58 a year is cheap to have insurance and an advocate for me to enjoy my hobby. FPV has a much greater potential of causing harm than conventional RC aircraft that are flown within a few hundred feet of the pilot and it requires a greater skill level to operate safely. Something a never ever or beginner pilot does not have, look how hard it is for some of us to control what we can see. I think FPVis cool and has it's place but it has the potential to ruin the whole hobby for all of us.

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

You could not be more mistaken. I do believe that there are MANY lightly populated areas of the US that would be entirely acceptable to fly FPV out of line of sight.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

The problem with that is if you can't see air traffic (full scale) you can't avoid it.

If you can't see and avoid then you don't belong in the air space.

That's my humble opinion based on a long time in aeromodeling and over 3K flight hours in full scale.

rivnut13

My Feedback: (24)

Sorry, but YOU could not be more mistaken, the population density of the operating area is IRRELEVANT. According to both the FAA and AMA regulations there is and NOWHERE IN THE NATIONAL AIRSPACE TO OPERATE YOUR FPV BEYOND VISUAL RANGE!!! The reason they don't want FPV/RPV/UAS in the national air space UNREGULATED is because of SAFETY. And, just so you know, many of those lightly populated or unpopulated areas are already designated for other purposes. For instance, aerobatic "boxes" are specially designated areas used to practice aerobatics, and then Johnny FPV plows through, without a spotter, or peripheral vison, or RADIO CONTACT WITH OTHER AIRCRAFT ALREADY OPERATING IN THAT AREA or actual pilot training or navigational traning, etcetera, etcetera, and causes an accident. THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!!!

So tell us what training do you have to guarantee the safe operation of your FPV aircraft? How do you get it back? GPS? What if that breaks? What if you lose visual contact with the ground through your FPV system? Do you possess the same approved navigtional training that every other LISCENCED PILOT operating in the National Airspace has? What system do you use for aircraft avoidance? How dou you avoid and aircraft that is overtaking you? How do you contact ATC when you enter a controlled area? Do you have a current sectional chart that shows you those boundaries?

This is the whole point of the legislation, regulation and this is the ENTIRE POINT OF THE AMA ADVISING YOU THAT THERE ARE SPECIAL REGULATIONS PERTAINING TO THE USE OF FPV/RPV/UAS! THAT'S ALL. THERE ARE RULES ! SPECIAL RULES FOR THE OPERATION OF UAS! PLEASE BE AWARE!!! AND YES IT IS TOTALLY APPROPRIATE FOR THEM TO DO IT ON THE PAGE ACROSS FROM A FULL PAGE AD FOR FPV EQUIPMENT. THEY PROBABLY HAVE TO!!!

It is the same reason that almost everything you buy has some sort of warning label on it. WARNING! MAY CONTAIN PEANUTS!!! If you have a peanut allergy, it's probably a good idea if you DON"T EAT IT!!!!

Civil liberties and the the ability to do even the simplest of things without government intervention or regulation, like for example, FLYING A MODEL AIRPLANE, is not because of the big bad government. IT IS BECAUSE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO THINK THE RULES DON'T APPLY TO THEM. And those people screw it up for the REST OF US!

Timeflys

VERY well put.

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

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jkeze

My Feedback: (36)

This FPV is opening up a big can of worms.

Just remeber about 13 years ago a bunch of guys went to flight school in Florida to learn to fly jets, not take off or land, just fly

chris923

My Feedback: (53)

Just because you can FPV now almost unregulated, does not mean it's a good thing to FPV everywhere. We all have to be self regulating. Or the Government will.

ssautter

Old news to me....

sUAS, UAV's, and "drones" have had their own organization and publications, for years: http://www.auvsi.org/Home/

The AMA is nothing-more than the peanut gallery, in relation to "FPV".

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

Come guys... the topic is not putting FPV on trial... it is whether or not AMA has the right to post the original message next to a paying advertisers message.

Charlie P.

Sure.  It's their/our magazine.  I see editorial comment [in boxes] at the end of submitted stories all the time.  They ran the ad as submitted.  A warning disclaimer is a good idea in a national magazine for an association that promotes safe practice.

jeffEE

My Feedback: (5)

AMA prints the magazine. AMA sets up add space. AMA can do with the magazine as they see fit. The only people that should have a problem with the added text next to an add is the people that bought the space. If they do not like it, they will not renew their space in the magazine.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Yep, that is usually how it works!

Seems there is only one that has a problem with it.

Regards,

Astro

rivnut13

My Feedback: (24)

So to answer your questions, yes I maintain a current FAA Pilot's Certificate, both fixed and rotary wing, CFII. I also possess a Mechanics Certificate with A&P rating and IA. No, I do not possess a HAM radio licence. Yes, I have TAUGHT the FAA ground school. All of that is IRRELEVANT! You did not start your post off with an " I am a responsible member of society and a trained aviator..." type comment. You started off with " The AMA has no right to tell me there are rules I should obey" and "FPV is the future of RC" and so on and so on. So to most who have surfed this website for some time, you must understand how this comes off. You sound like a new person to the hobby who has become enraged when you find out your local grammar school doesn't want you operating a turbine jet on their soccer field.

Now, it sounds like that is not the case. But you also must realize that you are in the VAST MINORITY. From my experience, a lot of FPV people I have met want a GPS guided whatever and have NO REGARD FOR IT'S SAFE OPERATION. It's cool and video gamish and they will lose interest in it after about a month. I have met a lot of aspiring RC pilots who are the same way. You don't sound like you are in that group. There is also the UAS crowd that wants to operate a commercial aerial photography business and call it "model airplanes". You don't sound like you are in that group, but you must realize that THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO THESE REGULATIONS ARE FOR.

Your intentions as far as Altimiters and TCAS and annual inspections are fine, and commendable, however some people will find out how much all that COSTS, to purchase and maintain, and they won't do any of it. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO THESE REGULATIONS ARE FOR.

If the AMA allows an ad for say, a completely autonomous aerial vehicle, some gps guided block of foam for $399, someone with TOATAL DISREGARD FOR IT'S SAFE OPERATION will go to a cul de sac at the end of their street, and let her rip. When that little plane ends up 2 miles down the road, through the local police station's window, they will have to deal with the cops, AND THE FAA. Then some lawyer will say to the irresponsible operator: " You are the victim, how were you to know you couldn't do that?" and then they'll sue. EVERYONE. The retailer and the AMA. And they'll win. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO THESE REGULATIONS ARE FOR

Outside the realm of possibility? You know it's not.

You know we had a saying in the Army. " One person craps their pants, and everyone wears diapers." That's how the military and government make rules. It sucks. It's not fair. That's the system. You may feel that amatuer FPV/UAS is ok some places, but the people who make the rules do not.

spog1

Let's hope fpv gets regulated like RC/AP, soon. It's a threat to the hobby we love. These yahoos need to be removed from our hobby before a major incident occurs.

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

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Hemikiller

My Feedback: (125)

opjose has it nailed down pretty well, the vendors and manufacturers of the FPV equipment aren't taking the same cautionary approach to their products as the other hobby manufacturers do. Couple that with the demographic that is attracted to FPV and you have a can of worms ready to burst at the seams. The manual for the DJI Phantom is written with no more cautions than the average TV or BluRay player.

DJI Phanton RTF FPV paltform manual:http://download.dji-innovations.com/...al_v1.6_en.pdf

Great Planes 50cc Pitts manual:http://manuals.hobbico.com/gpm/gpma1421-manual.pdf

Phantom on Amazon - at least this seller puts a note at the bottom about abiding local laws..http://www.amazon.com/DSLRPros-Phant.../dp/B00AGOSQI8

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Censorship is the answer!

rivnut13

My Feedback: (24)

I couldn't care less about FPV. You don't believe the the AMA, has the right to advise people, who may find it interesting, that there are special rules that apply to it. Ridiculous. If you like FPV great. if you like free flight, great. Whatever blows your hair back.

I believe that the FAA will regulate you, as an amateur FPV operator out of existence. I believe that ANY UAS/FPV/RPV will have to be treated as a certificated aircraft, and all that entails. The manufacturers will be legally liable for their products. YOU will be legally liable for your machinery and it's operation. What that means is INSURANCE and it won't cost $58.00 a year. PRICES WILL SKYROCKET, not go down. Your insurance will stipulate that YOU are not allowed in any way to maintain your aircraft, it must be done by a certificate holding mechanic. Now this is the part where you will tell me that as a person that holds an Airman's certificate, that you, under Part 65 are allowed to perform some "preventative maintenance" on your aircraft. You are correct, but your insurance company WILL NOT ALLOW IT.

You act like I am trying to demonize you and FPV. That I assume that everyone is "guilty by association". Well how do I put this, THEY ARE. How many new members have showed up at your field claiming to have WAY MORE EXPERIENCE THAN THEY ACTUALLY HAVE? Do you drive? Look around you. Do you really believe that all those people should own something that FLIES?

As for the US falling behind in the UAS realm? I actually think we own the hobby shop on that one. Predator, Global Hawk, etc. etc.

As for not needing to list your qualifications to begin a post, you are right, you don't need to. But if you want a different reaction, you should think before you speak. and people will respond VERY differently.

As for the AMA not wanting to lose ADVERTISING REVENUE? No problem, your dues are now $100 a year.

As for "ready to assume the costs" I suggest you price a set of tires and an oil change for a Cessna 182. How about a pitot/static check? How about an annual inspection on a light aircraft that is certified for flight into known icing. I hope you are sitting down. Have you ever installed $1500 worth of SPARK PLUGS into a single engine aircraft? I have.

I almost forgot, AIRWORTHINESS DIRECTIVES. As the owner/operator of a certificated aircraft you will be require to comply with airworthiness directives. Look them up. Ask a aircraft owner about ADs. You will love it. Surprise! A recurring inspection that requires the complete disassembly of your aircraft, and YOU foot the bill. Surprise! These fasteners are now considered a life-limited part and they will have to be replaced every 40 flight hours. Oh, and they are parts for a certificated aircraft, and they are $60 EACH, and there is 12 of them.

And to end my final post on the subject, You WILL get your ***** sued off if your FPV system causes property damage. You WILL do time in a FEDERAL PENITENTIARY if your FPV system causes loss of life. The ONLY protection you will have is to operate your UAS within the realm of the regulations. The AMA or the FAA. If you don't, the AMA will happily leave you hanging and the FAA will personally come escort you to prison or seize your house. THESE THINGS WILL HAPPEN LONG BEFORE ROBOTS DELIVER PIZZA.

These are the rules, PLEASE BE AWARE.

raptureboy

Always better to be proactive than reactive. The AMAis taking the proactive route, rather than wait until someone causes an accident with a full scale and people get killed and then try to show we(modelers) are responsible. You (on your six) are the minority in FPV, most of thosewho this technology are being marketed to are not aware of all the ramifications of operating a remote controled vehicle out of visual range or will invest all the $ you are talking about. The vendors will offer cheaper and cheaper versions trying to capture market share without any concern for anyones safety or the future of all rc modelers. The Chinese manufacturer will just retool to make some other cheap piece of junk after the market is gone, because of an FPVincident. Check the ad for Atlanta Hobby in the June issue, the warning is right in the ad. Not a problem for me at all, I just ignore it the same as the ones on my bottle of beer and my lawn mower, gas can, seatbelts, etc. Believe me these warnings are not going to prevent sales, any more than the ones on cigarettes. I imagine the AMAadvised the vendor they were going to post the warnings before the vendor ran the ad.

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

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