ktan73

greggles47

Hi Ken,

Wow, that's a giant step for modeller-kind!

Good luck with this one, I can see a million reasons why it can't work, but hey good luck!

MVVS make a 10cc diesel, and knowing their quality, I can't see this being one of the reason your project won't work.

http://www.mvvs.nl/MVVS/main_bestand...s-engines.html

How far along are you in the planning process?

Regards

Greg

bogbeagle

Interesting project.

If you must have a diesel, then it will have to be a 4-stroke, owing to their more frugal nature.

There are no suitably-sized 4-strokes in production.

The only large diesel 4-stroke aeroplane engine, that I can think of, was the Laser .80. This has been out of production for some years, now.





However, you might find that an unmodified 4-stroke glow engine will run fine on diesel.


I know, from experience, that a standard Enya .60 will run, unmodified. By adding an automotive' cetane improver to the diesel fuel, this engine can be made to run fairly well as a diesel variant, without any modifications. Now, the Enya .60 has a Compression Ratio of just 8:1, which is very modest, in diesel terms. If you can find a 4-stroke which has a CR of 10 or 12;1, you may find that it's a practical proposition for your proposed flight.

Because the engine has no means of adjusting the CR (such as Lanova cell), you will have to match your propeller to the engine's characteristics. But, the project is quite achievable and not at all expensive.

ktan73

Hi Greg thanks for the comment .
We have nailed down 3 airframes now . with the gear would weight empty about 5kg , It is a big wingspan glider type high speed design that can both glide well hopefully average out about 60knots cruising .

Ineed to identify in theory which engine would pull this plane comfortably . Get few engines & do bench tests let it run with 2kg of fuel and see the duration . Tweak the engine & increase it .

Once i get it to run about 20 hours non stop . We will do flight test . with head winds etc.

KindRgds
Ken

1QwkSport2.5r

Bobeagle - were you talking about a 4-stroke Enya .60 or 2-stroke .60 will run on diesel without modification?

ktan73

Hi Bob . I think we need a diesel either 2 or 4 stroke dont matter. what's important is it should run on 0.1 to - 0.15 liter of fuel per hour .

Thanks & Rgds
Ken

bogbeagle

Enya .60 four-stroke, will run on diesel fuel. You can use the glow plug to assist with starting.

Runs best with cetane improver added, though. I think that the CR is a little low to be optimal.

ktan73

Hi Bob . Do you know where to get the detail specs for Enya 0.60 4 stroke diesel engine's :  fuel consumption figure ?  Pls PM me at [email protected]   easier to reply to you imme .

Thanks again Bob .
 A more realistic approach would be like this i think :

Find an Engine , say the .60 Enya diesel  . for calc sake .
I will test its consumption / hour , pulling a  14 x7 prop @ xxxx Rpm .
Put a 5kg fuel thank see how long it last .
put a 10kg fuel tank see how long
this way we can guess 40 hours fuel requirement .
then , we design the airframe to haul this fuel and then some .
Hope by that time its not a 10m wing span one and weighs a ton .

I did a cacl ;  If we keep the MTOW at 10kg , our thrust req = 1.8 kg only at 50 knots .
So perhaps at 0.60 engine just might be able to do it .

bogbeagle

I found out the CR of the Enya .60 by emailing Ken Enya, in Japan.

I think that you'd have to skim the head a little, to "up" the CR, if you want a reliable runner. But, you can also experiment with various fuel additives.

There's people on here who can advise you re fuel.




Oh, you'll be a while waiting for it to eat 10 kg of diesel fuel. What is that, about 14 litres?

Anyway, if you are keeping the MTOW at 10kg, you will not be carrying 10kg of fuel.


Have you studied the prevailing winds for your proposed flight?

1QwkSport2.5r

Interesting. I have a 60-4C, interesting it would run on diesel fuel as-is.

KTan - the Enya .60 4-stroke is designed to run glow fuel, or intended anyway.

ktan73

HI Bog , Yes Ideally , I can carry bout 5kg or fuel about 7+ litre .
No i have not checked the wind for my planned to fly period yet . How can i check ?any idea ?
Say :Sept 1 2013 ?

Thx again Mate

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

K, there are a few Saito .80s out there that have 15.5 to 1 compression ration, They will fire right up unaided and turn a Bolly 13.5x8 at 8,700+ rpm.

http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...to%20FA-80.pdf

Mr Cox

In case you are not familiar with model diesel engines, I would just like to point out that these engines do not run on regular diesel (as in car fuel), the "diesel" fuel in these engines is a very special blend with about 1/3 of it being ether.

In order to have a fuel consumption of 0.1-0.15 liter per hour (equal to about 3.5-5oz per hour) you would need a two-stroke engine of about 2.5cc (0.15 inch^3) and it will give you about 0.7kg of thrust. You could possibly use a slightly larger engine and run it at a reduced throttle setting, but I don't think that it can be much larger than 2.5cc.

A four-stroke engine could possibly be larger, but I have no experience with those myself.

AMB

IRVINE 53 Davis Diesel head 12x7 prop 6 minutes per oz measured and timed martin

Mr Cox

That's my point exactly, it would then need 10oz in an hour, i.e more than twice of the intended fuel consumption. So the project would need an engine that is smaller than .25.

bogbeagle

A two-stroke isn't sufficiently frugal for this job, I think. Too much unburned fuel goes out the exhaust port.

Mr Cox

Yes, a converted Saito .30 might be better suited, they are also very lightweight.

brokenenglish

Maynard Hill did it without all this poking around.
His solutions would be a good starting point, and I think they are well documented...

bogbeagle

Coleman fuel.

C and H ignition.

OS .61 fs

on-board electrical generator.

AMB

on the irvine 53 diesel conversion 6 min/oz it was 30cc exact thus 30 x 10 is 300cc/hr thus 40hrs x300cc/hr 12000cc (12 liters x .85 approx specific gravity of fuel 10 Kg fuel wt which is
22Lbs 2.63 US gallons martin

AMB

ken what is the distance for this flight??? martin


an other thought maybe a light weight solar panel to keep the charge up on the battery easier than a generator also SULLIVAN USA has a 5 watt alternator system rotor flat
mounts to drive washer then small box mounts inside ac to dc converter all solid state easy set up compact been around since mid 90s

greggles47

Ken,

Our Bureau of Meteorology has comprehensive data, I'm not sure if it extends as far as Jak tho'.

http://www.bom.gov.au/

It's probably worth checking with our Immigration Dept to be sure you're not contravening any international laws. It wouldn't be a good look for modellers to start an international incident by accident.

Greg

qazimoto

My Feedback: (1)

Sounds like an interesting project, however a flight from Jakarta to Perth would be over the Indian Ocean not the Pacific which is a whole continent away.

I followed Maynard Hill's flight across the Atlantic Ocean as it happened a decade ago. I believe he actually made attempts with as many as twenty five different models before he finally succeeded.

The flight distance between Newfoundland to Ireland was about 1,882 miles, a bit less than your goal.





Ray

skaliwag

My Feedback: (1)

Who is selling CS engines these days

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

www.csmodelengine.com