maukaonyx

I think it's kinda unfair to judge and crucify about the wing warp and strength until you fly yours. That is why I am shutting up about flyability, the aileron trim, and wing failure until I get mine airborne for MYSELF. It's true the wings (one or the other or both) have a warp...but how bad is it. I won't know for myself until I fly my own Bravata. It's definitely true the painted red parts are way darker than the red covering...that anyone can see, and AW should rectify that. I can get past that if my plane flies well WITHOUT ugly aileron trim visible to anyone, and without adding big wing trim tabs like others are doing. I might have to do it myself, but won't know till I fly the durn plane. Still beautiful, but AW quality control missed these important points in many of our Bravata's per this thread. Jon

Planejaw

My Feedback: (53)

Flew the maiden flight of a friend/fellow club member's Bravata and before takeoff, we dialed in just under 1/4" of right aileron trim. Once in the air, we had to dial in a full 1/4" of trim. We had measured the wing incidence of both of his wings prior to flight, the same as I did on mine, which found a near three-degree difference.

Even with maximum movement on the ailerons, roll-rate to the right is poor. If you want to do any "simple" aerobatics, particularly involving any right roll input, you need to throw in a lot of right rudder. Most people also remark that when in the air, the right-aileron trim is quite noticeable. Not sure if it's more noticeable than the large trim tab on the aileron or not!

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

If I had one of these, I would be tempted to strip some or all the covering off the wing, loosen the glue joints and reset the wing as needed.

maukaonyx

IF I get the same aileron trim results, I might consider what you suggest. Sorta like fixing a broken leg that set crooked by rebreaking it and resetting it correctly. Easier said than done, but also might be most successful. Jon

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

If the wing does not have alot of sheeting
Then it will be alot easier to remove
Any built in twists

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Surely, this has to be an eyesore for AW, but its happend to others good brands over time. Being on the positive and constructive side to make this plane better is key. Hope it works out for most.

bikerbc

I am really glad you guys have posted all this info about the Bravata... I was seriously thinking about buying one .. Even the Review in the latest Issue of Fly RC doesn't warn us of this wing warp problem...I have had such great customer service from Horizion , and Hanger 9 products I guess I better stick with them...Shame on Aeroworks for not backing up there product...they seem to be keeping there head down and not even responding or defending themselves ..I was actually looking at a few of their products like the 100 cc carbon Cub and the Cessna LC-126 but I will not take a chance on buying anything from them now...The Sig Rascal is almost the same and I haven't heard anything bad about it...

phakur

My Feedback: (13)

Ken
Actually that was my option. Bravata or rascal

I had come into some money so went with the more costly Bravata based on aeroworks rep

My Bravata flies like most others Lots of trim required rolls terribly

It is a well built plane. Just manufactured poorly


Disappointed


Larry

AlW

My Feedback: (17)

It's hard for me to understand what all you guys are whining about. My wing had (3) degrees difference from one tip to the other and I simply took it out using a heat gun with the help of a friend. The airplane required absolutely NO aileron trim when it was first flown at the end of March and as of yesterday when I flew it still not one click of aileron trim required. Take a look at my post 93 on page 4 of this thread. The Bravata is a very fine airplane in all aspects.
Al

phakur

My Feedback: (13)

If you would like to buy mine I would happily sell it to you


Larry

maukaonyx

That's exciting to hear Al, about how your warping the wing back in shape with the heat gun really worked and held. I used the heat gun early on too, and am still assembling the plane. My naked eye says all is still ok, but only flying will tell the results. Hope mine flies with as little trim as yours! Jon

bikerbc

I believe you can straighten the wing by twisting it and heating the covering but When you twist the wing the glue joints now are stressed. If they fail your wing will fail as happened to Predmans friend you will lose your plane.. If Aero Works will not back up the product I can't afford to deal with them.. I have straightened wings like that before but they were wings that I had glued myself... From what I have seen of the glue joints in some of the ARFS they leave something to be desired...I really like the plane but I am afraid to take the chance on a company with that poor of customer support...I have purchased a PA18 and a Taylor Craft from Hanger 9 .. Both needed some customer support..Horizion was great.. I dont find fault with the fact that there is a problem just the fact that Aero works isn't willing to back it up. Saying it dosent effect the flyability might be true but the fact is that the wings are twisted and the customers are not happy.. Take the kit and give their money back or replace the defective parts..

phakur

My Feedback: (13)

Just for information mine has 16 clicks of right trim in ailerons and 3 in rudder to fly straight


It is not the point that an arf needs work, they all do but the point that these are about the most expensive arcs you can find and this is not expected


Larry

predman

My Feedback: (7)

My friend did not do and modifications to his wing, off hand and don't think he even knew there was a problem. The plane was never stressed in flight and the wing folded up in level flight. The wingtube of course in my opinion is way too short for the wingspan. The ribs which the tube passed through was paper thin and in my opinion not suitable for the task. Such a shame the Aeroworks team is selling a faulty product willingly well aware of the defects.

AlW

My Feedback: (17)

The glue joints in a built up wing are many times stronger than the wood even in an ARF. This wing can easily be twisted without comprising the strength. As far as the spar goes it is short - sticking into the wing approximately (8) inches. Most all of the wing loads are taken out through the wing struts which attach to hard points at the bottom of the fuselage and interface with the wing some (26) inches from the side of body. The struts themselves are very stiff and can easily handle both positive and negative "g" loads. With this structural arrangement there is no reason to make the spar any longer. I would like to hear more details about ''the wing that folded in level flight'' My airplane has been flown as hard as one would expect for an aeroplane of this size and configuration without any issues.
Al

predman

My Feedback: (7)

According to the aeroworks team, the wing struts are decorational so I wouldn't rely on those. The aeroworks guys told my buddy once the plane is put together the warranty is void. Obviously there was a manufactor defect as I watched the wing fold up in slow level flight. the owner babied that plane and I know hes a great builder, such a shame as I listened to aeroworks give every excuse how great the plane is and not cover it. They lost that customer and a few more at the field because of it.

phakur

My Feedback: (13)

Worst customer service I've ever seen

Don't know how they have stayed in business this long

AlW

My Feedback: (17)

Predman,
The struts are not''Decorational'' as you put it. Look at page 54 in the manual and I quote ''IMPORTANT: Wing struts are not optional and must be used at all times. Failure to do so may result in a catastrophic failure of the wing'' Was your friend flying without the struts being installed?
Al

maukaonyx

IMHO if the struts were really decorations only, they would not be as stiff, strong, and heavy as they are. I will be using mine per the CD manual. Jon

bikerbc

I am glad to see see AW on here .. What do you have to say about wings that need 16 clicks of trim to fly straight ? Do you feel that is normal ? I have purchased quite a few ARFS and have never ran into one that required anything like that to fly straight.. I don't feel that it is acceptable and I am the customer.. It is your job to keep me happy.. If you want my money I want to know that after I give it to you there is going to be some customer support .. If there is not going to be any customer support there is not going to be any money ...I really wish there was some customer support because you have some really cool planes that I would love to have ...Arguing about how we can easily fix it ourselves just dosen't cut it Or name calling like calling us whiners. We should not have to fix it...I am not trying to be a jerk or be unreasonable.. I am used to dealing with Horizion who goes out of there way to keep their customers happy .. I hope you respond to me to help me understand why you aren't trying to keep your customers happy because I would like to be a customer .. And I am wondering what is going to happen on a hot day to these wings that have been twisted straight .. I can recall a wing that I had to straighten yrs ago and on a hot day it would twist itself back crooked .. I am wondering if the struts might not be a better way of twisting the wing straight ? Adjustable struts ?

bikerbc

When I say adjustable struts I mean like the Cub struts.. Twin struts.. Two on each side.. That way you can twist the wing with the struts...

Planejaw

My Feedback: (53)

BikerBC,

Unfortunately, I don't believe contributor "A/W" is from Aeroworks. The forum has been previously visited by Mark Dennis from Aeroworks, out of Parker, Colorado (see pages 3-4 of this thread). Aeroworks has not contributed to the form since just before Toledo. I would be surprised if they do not review the forum from time to time, but so far, they have not responded for quite a while. Our only conclusion is they are going to ignore our pleas for help and some reasonable level of customer support. All they have said, and even in person when I was in Toledo, was they can "do nothing" for us. There is always "something" that "can" be done. Aeroworks has made the conscious "choice" to "do nothing" for us, their customers. Otherwise, they would be active in this forum and working with us on issue, helping to resolve or fix the problem. We also heard the same response from them regarding painted cowls and wheel pants that do not come close to matching the covering materials.

I'm not trying to assume I know why Aeroworks is choosing not to help us. All we can do is theorize. I do know the ethical, moral and responsible position for Aeroworks to take is to dutifully respond to us, their customers, stand behind the product and make things right. And it is not difficult to figure out what needs to be done. Either one or both wings need to be replaced by correctly built wings. There is nothing more to it. It is no more complex than that. Heating, twisting and adding large trim tabs are a poor excuse for production line errors.

At Toledo, the Aeroworks team told us about different wood being used for each wing half, leading to the unequal incidences in the wings. While it may be interesting to know how this happened, "knowing" how it happened does not fix the problem for any of us. They again told those of us, who asked them for help, they could (or would) do nothing. I sincerely hope if you identified the problem, any further production runs will result in correctly built wings.

Aeroworks, I guarantee you, after admitting to a production issue and then coosing to stand up for your customers and being willing to make it right, will not cause long-term financial distress for you. In fact, you would have customers that would come back to you again and again...for your honesty, ethical busines practices and customers that know you will stand behind your product. In the long run, your profits would soar. And yes, Aeroworks, you are more than entitled to make a profit...we want you to...that helps you bring new product to the market and gives us "world-class" aircraft to build and fly. But truthfully, I'd rather have a "World-Class" company that stands behind their product, than a laser-etched piece of wood in my airplane that says "World-Class Aircraft."

To Rocco, Mark and the Aeroworks team, we respectfully ask that you respond to us, your customers, stand behind your product and do the right thing for us. And yes, sometimes doing the right thing will cost money. And if we, your customers with defective wings and painted parts are wrong in some way, we apologize and patiently await your response. We want to work with you, help you make your products better and we look forward to buying, building and flying your aircraft in the future.

We look forward to hearing from you, in this forum.

Be a "World-Class" company!!

r_adical

My Feedback: (19)

AMEN

bikerbc

I apoligize for mistaking AW for Aero Works .. I was all happy thinking Aero works was responding .. I am easily confused ,I have had a stroke and am a little slow these days..All I can say is shame on Aero Works .. I would not treat my friends like that...

AlW

My Feedback: (17)

To all of you -AlW stands for Al Watson. I live in Bellevue Washington and am not associated with Aeroworks. I do have (2) Aeroworks models - a Bravata and an Edge 540 both of which I consider good airplanes. As stated in my previous posts my Bravada did have (3) degrees of twist which I removed and there have been no further issues. High temps have not affected the wings - it's been in the high 90's around here!
I would still like to know about the Bravada whose wings came apart in level flight - were the struts installed?
Al Watson