WMann

Hi guys,

I am just about ready to test fly my 30 year old Super Arrow with the Rossi Speed 13. I will have an APC 11x7 prop on this thing. Is anyone running this prop and have the header length that works well with this set up? I am trying to get this thing ready for the event in GA next weekend and I am running out of time. Work is so getting in the way of me having any fun. Also I only have the stock glow plug that came with the engine. I have no spares. Which OS plug is going to work best with this set up and 10% Nitro? I am thinking an OS #5.

Thanks for the help and I hope to see some of you guys next weekend.


Wayne Mann

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Wayne,

Dave Phillips will be able to help you with this - the exhaust length.

As for plugs I'd suggest you stick with the NR plugs - C6S is the standard plug for this engine. There is no OS #5 that I'm aware of but a #8 should also work. 10% nitro is right and a 50/50 synthetic/castor mix is a good idea with most European engines (i.e., castor in the mix). Some (e.g., MVVS) perform well with castor only and 0-5% nitro but that's not the case with the NR Speed/13.

What header are you using - the 1" or 2.5" rise? You should be able to run the engine on the stock 1" rise (40401), NR standard pipe (50400) and the 11x7 and it will give you in the neighborhood of 16K... Behold the power of this engine!

David

PS Do post some snaps of your Super Arrow!

WMann

Hi David,

I just got home from the hobby shop. They only had 15% Powermaster with 18% oil in stock. I have the 1" rise header. The OS #8 plug is too hot. That is the plug we ran in helicopters with 30% nitro fuel. The OS #5 is much colder. If it will do 16k on the ground with the stock uncut header it will be way too fast for my advanced years to keep up with. I will snap some pics today and get them posted. I will shoot some pics and video tomorrow when I test run the engine and again on Monday when I test fly the plane assuming the weather doesn't suck here in central NC. I may have to drive to Raleigh on Monday for the test flight if their weather is better.


Wayne

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Goes to show how much I know about OS plugs... I'd never heard of the #5. According to the OS site, they now produce a #10 (cold) which was formerly the A5 (this one I was aware of). There is a racing 5 too (R5) but I suspect that is not right for 60 size Speed/13 (better suited to smaller engines turning much higher RPM).

That makes sense though, you would want a colder plug on this beast unless you shim it up slightly on the hotter plugs. The #8 is considered a medium plug. The Speed/13 is a long stroke though and I believe the #8 is what OS recommends for their SF/RF long strokes. Then again, the OS's likely have lower compression (and certainly lower rpm) per design compared to the Speed/13.

Wherever you bought your NR, you should also be able to pick up some cold C6S plugs as well. Other interesting options (which I hope to try) would be the AXE Rossi plugs, R4 and R5. I don't expect substantial difference between the right AXE plug and the right NR plug given the environmental conditions. The PM 15% should be OK but you might want to add some castor to it if it is all synthetic which I think the 18% is. The 10% GMA (CL) with 22% oil might be a better fuel while the engine is new. NR recommends 10/10/10/70 fuel for the engine (hence a 50/50 Castor/Synthetic mix).

I look forward to the pics and video of your run-up. I don't think we have any public video of this engine yet (at least not that I'm aware of).

The Super Arrow is a beautiful classic.

David

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Nova Rossi will have a rep at the Andersonville GA contest... there will be parts and engines etc. for sale there.

cpa#2

CHiatt

My Feedback: (1)

Wayne,
With my OPS, I found that an Enya #4 worked pretty good. The OS R5 was too cold, as was a 'vintage' Rossi R5. I also tried a K&B 1L (what I used to run back in the day) but it was seriously down on rpms compared to the #4. Haven't tried an OS #8 yet, but it's a little 'short'. It'll probably run like the #4...

I'm running 5% Cool Power straight up with no issues. If you can set a good needle and have a consistent fuel system, castor really isn't needed in my opinion. I hate the gummy stuff to clean up anyway...

Regarding pipe length, here are the recommendations from my OPS pipe instructions:
15,000 - 16,000 rpm = 13 3/8"
13,000 - 14,000 rpm = 15 1/8"
Measured from the center of the cylinder along the header to the high point of the pipe (following whatever rise). Your results may vary depending on pipe volume...

FWIW, I'm at 14 1/2" and turning an 11 x 7 APC at 14,700-ish rpm on the ground when it hits the pipe. Its unloading in the air but not outrunning the pipe or falling off in long verticals.

Cliff

PS; Of course, this is all on a 35 year old engine...

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Using an OS plug will void the warranty with your Nova Rossi. OS plugs are not sized well. I wouldn't recommend them anyhow.

The NovaRossi plug Dox recommended is a cold plug. 15% works great! As far as pipe length.. There is a difference in RPM between the NR 50400 and the Mac's muffled pipe (Mac's giving you just a little more). But Jim Oliver has documented this advantage only between 150-200rpm. That is with an 11X7APC. I should say that this is on an older, but new, C61F RE NR.

What pipe and header are you using? There may be an adjustment in the header between the two.

Brian

WMann

Hey guys,

Sorry, I had to take the wifey out for some Mexican. OK, I took myself out for some Mexican and allowed her to tag along. I have the 40401 header and the 50400 pipe. Thanks for all of the tips. I will hopefully test run the motor in the model tomorrow and then test fly it on Monday, depending on weather, which is looking really crappy here the first of the week.

I will update this thread tomorrow with some pics and a report on how the engine ran.


Wayne

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Wayne,

Just keep in mind this is an ABC engine so give it a good run-in (NR recommends 30 min) before taking your pride and joy to the air!

David

pitstop000

My Feedback: (26)

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

How will this void the warranty?

Dave Harmon

Some of the NR engines require a short reach plug.
I have not tried a standard long reach plug in a NR engine but due to the increased depth of the LR plug....I suppose that it is possible for the piston to hit the plug at TDC.
I did compare the NR short reach with a standard K&B 1L and some NIP Rossi 4 plugs and there is a considerable difference in length.

Also....the NR plugs could be more robust in that at high rpm and high compression the elements have been known to vibrate loose and fall into the cylinder.
Then, the element gets trapped in the exhaust and destroys the piston and sleeve.
This is a well known but probably forgotton problem that will make itself known again now that we are starting to use this type of engine again.

Don't run these engnes too lean or the pipe too short....the plugs will get pounded for sure.
Keep the pipe a little long and set the engine mixture with the in-flight needle with the transmitter just before takeoff on every flight.
The in-flight rpm will increase and the engine will get further along on the long end of the pipe and start to really howl.....without blowing the plug.
Back in the mid to late 80's I was mixing my own fuel...nothing secret or impossible to find with this type of engine....
I used with great results 5% nitro, 18% K&B X2c oil.
That oil was I believe....20% castor.
An equal oil today would be Klotz.
My engines always ran as good and most of the time better than anyone's and I never had a failure in 5 hard years of flying both days every weekend and all the contests within driving distance.

The wrist pin wire clip is another well known part that fails regularly.....it's best to replace these clips at every bearing change.

Rust and corrosion is your and the engines enemy.....the clips rust quickly.
I used to use castor oil for after run oil oil but I have found that any brand synthetic motor oil from Walmart works better and never gets sticky and gummy.
And.....the engine fires right up again later.

I like the most thin viscosity oil I can get....I've forgotten the weight but I think it is 0-10 or similar.
The Dave Shadel Performance Specialties oil works wonders as well.
I've never tried air compressor refrigerant oil but I think it is similar and should work well.

Dave

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

most of the OS plugs are short reach. The element coming loose can happen to any plug. with regards to it destroying the piston and sleeve that I find very very very rare. Usually the bearing is going out on the engine and that is what destroys the piston.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

It is written in the instructions you get with the engine.

As to the how... I don't know their reasoning.

Brian

Wssmt41833

Wayne,Fear none, I am sending you some spares UPS / Monday, complements of SMT Distributing.

dphill2

My Feedback: (1)

Wayne,

The Nova Rossi 13 that I'm Running has a pipe length of 14 1/2 to the High point of the pipe I'm running the stock Nova Rossi Pipe.
The motor turns 14,100 on the test bench with a 11X10 APC prop. Don't know what it turning in the air but I'm more than pleased with the prop and the performance.
As far as the plugs we can send you as many as you want and have them to you before you leave for Hodges. The plug Rossi recommends is the C6S.

Dave.

WMann

Thanks so much guys, I was hoping to fly the plane tomorrow, but I have to go to Boone, NC for a video shoot, so hopefully Tuesday will be the day. I will settle up with you on the plugs on Friday when I arrive.

Thanks again and I will see you guys on Friday.


Wayne Mann

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Wayne,
I have heavily abused the supplied C6S plug that was supplied with my NR Speed 13 with testing different props, fuels and pipes; no problems and none expected.

Jim

stuntflyr

I think of the Nova Rossi and older Rossi engine as a real high performance piece of equipment that in no way designed to be a sport engine but a Speed and racing engine adaptable to other competition events.

WMann

Here are some pics of my 30 year old Super Arrow. I will be running the engine and doing some test flights tomorrow assuming the weather holds out.


Wayne

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

The Arrow is definitely on my "must have" list. (The Atlas as well.)

I like it! Eager to hear some results! Take flight pics!

Brian

speed-panzer

My Feedback: (1)

Very cool - tailwheel nicel integrated into rudder.
Did you ever have issues with that?

WMann

No, the tail wheel has been pretty much bullet proof. It makes for a nice clean installation.


Wayne

ymuraki

My Feedback: (28)

Looks good Wayne.
Good luck at event next week.

Nob

WMann

Hi Nob,

I hate I missed Tim's event last weekend...again. We were in Ohio at Lake Erie on a video shoot. I am leaving on Friday morning very early for this event and when it is over on Sunday morning we are headed to Tampa to another shoot for three days, then to Orlando and then to Atlanta. I need a vacation.


Wayne