AtTheApogee

Hi all,

So, I've spent the past week or so building an ARTF model that I bought from a local shop. It's a Black Horse Twister A-BH018. I've installed a SC40 engine in it with Futaba S3003 servos and am operating it with an old Futaba Skysport 6 radio.

I flew a trainer for a short period back when I was about 14/15, but that's almost 10 years ago now, although since then I have achieved a first class degree in Aeronautical Engineering and am pursuing a PhD in Aerospace Engineering, so I'm far from clueless about aviation in general.

But the model I've just built isn't a trainer and is recommended for intermediate/advanced users, although I have seen a few reviews online which say it's quite tame and predictable at low speeds. Also I have dual rate on the transmitter so I can keep it a bit more tame than usual at the beginning anyway.

Anyway, I'm not going to join a club as I don't really fancy that idea of paying lots of fees, and having to go through a structured training process an gain this award and that award before being able to fly solo. I also don't really fancy that idea of having to do a lot of waiting around between flights, and would rather just go to a big empty field (plenty of those around my home...) and waste a gallon of fuel having fun and finding my own feet. So please don't judge me for that - I know that there are a lot of self-taught pilots on here anyway, so I'm sure I'm in good company.

I've invested in a simulator and am also trying out lots of free ones to get some experience on the sticks before I go out for my real-life maiden flight too, so hopefully that will give me some sort of clue and feeling for it before I take the plunge.

But, before I go out for my maiden flight, what do you suggest to me in terms of how much setting up I can do with the aircraft before it's in the air to minimise the requirement for lots of trimming and ensure it flies safely and predictably?

Also, I have a few questions:

1) I'm in the UK, so what's the deal with insurance? I'll be flying in some pretty remote places, so I don't anticipate doing damage to anything other than my plane, but is it worth getting insurance from the BMFA anyway? How much does that tend to cost and what does it cover? Will it cover me for flying solo in a remote area, or does it only cover you if you're flying with a club in a specially designated area? Do you need to join the BMFA AND buy the insurance? If so, what's the total tally going to be?

2) The servos in my plane are doing some strange things. Firstly, they're buzzing when I move them to extreme positions and hold them there. Is this normal, and if not, how do I remedy it?

3) The ailerons on my plane occasionally do not return to the same neutral point when I let the sticks go. They're sometimes a few millimeters above/below the normal neutral point. Is this normal, and will it adversely affect flight? Again, if not normal, how do I remedy it?

4) The instruction manual says that the CofG should be 90mm back from the leading edge. Is this with, or without, a full tank of fuel? It says to wait until you've measured it before securing the fuel tank/receiver/battery permanently, since I'll be moving them to adjust the CofG... I take it that means that it should be measured with an empty tank? I suppose the fuel will only make it slightly more nose heavy anyway, which is a good thing, right?

Any input/advice/suggestions/answers/luck is welcome! Thanks for reading.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

I'm only a nursing grad while your working on your PhD. Your smarter then me so you'll have to answer your own questions. By the way all your questions could be answered at the local flying field. O ya you don't want any help.

AtTheApogee

Every single thread on this website could be discussed at the local flying field. If that's the attitude you're going to take, then there's really no need for this forum at all, and you've wasted your time in registering. So why don't you go patronise somebody at your local flying field, since you're so opposed to using forums instead.

And I didn't mention my qualifications to brag, I mentioned them to let any prospective responders to this thread know that they don't have to go back to absolute basics and describe, for example, how basic flight works. It was relevant to the thread, which is why I mentioned it, unlike your qualifications and your post in general, which is relevant to nothing. So please take your chip and your shoulder elsewhere.

If you're not going to post something useful, then I see little point in you posting at all.

I've never understood you people who immediately titter and deride somebody who wants to have a hobby without having to join a club and go through formal training procedures and put up with club constitutions, additional fees, and have restricted flying times. At the end of the day, it's a HOBBY. It's JUST flying rc aircraft, it's not flying long haul passenger routes. So if I decide that I don't want to formalise it and just want to have fun, then who are you to patronise me for that?

And this is the age of the internet, incase you haven't realised. Most people's first point of call for information is online, because it's convenient. I can post here from the comfort of my living room at 11pm at night, and I can communicate with thousands of experienced fliers. Whereas to go to my local flying club would require:

A) Good weather, to ensure people will be there.
B) A good time of day, to ensure people will be there (and I'm generally not free during the week for that kind of thing).
C) Travelling several miles to the club, spending fuel money, etc, etc.

And that might only provide me with access to one or two people who might titter derisively, as you have done, and tell me I'll need to join the club and pay the fees if I want to get their advice and fly on their grounds.

So pardon me for thinking I might go to the biggest knowledge repository in the world and try to get some helpful information without being sarcastically hounded by some troll.

DadsToysBG

My Feedback: (35)

And how to you think working on a phd has anything to do with flying. And why go into a long post about why he doesn't want to find help from a club.
This is what they say a out phds in Aero. A PhD runs the depth. A Ms builds them. A BS flys them and a high school grads fixd fixes them.
Many times when a new person shows up and the first thing out of his mouth is how smart he is or how much money he has I know its a waste of time to try and help. He's already made up his mind and all he's looking for is someone to agree with him.
Why would he not want the help a club can offer with his plane in front of him instead wanting us to type and can't a
can't show him.
Some times thing go bad and you find the need to speak out. Your right in most cases I wouldn't have said a thing her or the field. Its was a bad day.

jetmech05

Garrie the road you're going down is not the best easiest or cheapest. The chances of failure are multiplied. The best chance for learning without damage to your aircraft is with an instructor and a buddy cord which you'll find and the local flying field.
Good luck to you. Take a trash bag with you for the first flight. not being smart here. But thats probably where your plane will be

opjose

I for one would like to hear an HONEST report of that first flight.

-

If you MUST do it alone, choose a different airplane to learn on.

Neither a pilot's license nor a PhD means squat to an RC plane as the holders of both are so quick to discover.

nellsey

You should get BMFA insurance. Is it worth taking the risk? It will cover you providing you have permission to fly from the land owner. I think it is £32.
Learning/crashing on your own will probably be far more expensive than joining a club. Do you how to run in or tune an engine?
The Twister may be ok with an instructor on a buddy lead but it is not the plane to learn on if going solo. Get a trainer. My favouite being the Seagull Boomerang.

I am an instructor and would always recommend joining a club, safety alone being one very good reason. They would also check out your plane over, set it up correctly and even test fly it for you. Even if you are not going to join your local club, take your model along as I am sure they will help.

Calvinman

Hi Garrie, Welcome to RCing! while learning to fly on your own is not ideal it can be done, but as stated get a more stable aircraft, a kit preferably, so when you build it photocopy, or trace out all parts, so when you crash, and you will crash(take it from a self taught flyer) you can build a new one or repair the old one. It sounds like your servos are being stalled out at the end of the stroke because the control surface does not want to go that far, try moving the push rod in/out on the servo/control arm to make the control surface movement smaller. The ailerons not centering sounds bad to me, I purchased some brand new Futaba servo's from the internet for an unbelievable bargain, and had to throw them out because they would not center, and sometimes got stuck on one position. C of G with tank empty, I believe. Oh, I did eventually join a club, my flying skills improved a hundredfold(I still suck ; >) and met a lot of interesting people with some very nice aircraft. And not one condesender in the bunch! CalviSorry for the run smooshed together reply, I have tried 4 or 5 times to break it down to single line answers. My editing does not seem to change anything

Charlie P.

No problem. If you have a PhD in aerospace engineering you can learn to fly your model using the same steps you would use for an unproven airframe design. A year in the wind tunnel observing dynamics of the design, structural tests, hire a test pilot who has years of experience to try the first trial flights. Then he can turn it over to you to fly. Briefly.

You're all set.

But seriously . . .

Balance with tank empty. The servos should return to zero. Buzzing could be from binding - which drains the flight battery extremely fast. Either they are pushing too hard or too far. Haveyou set to the throws recommended in the modelmanual?

There are two schools: the first is to try very short hops until you get a feel for the model. You bravely chose a tail-dragger so you will have to make rudder corrections for a straight take-off and be ready for a difference in heading if you haven't trimmed it to roll straight and transition into straight flight. Feed in throttle smoothly and correct with rudder. Aileron will ground loop you.

The second is to go for altitude so you have time to react. Problem with #2 is that if you have programmedthe aileron servoswrong or connected them backwards it will be a brief and ugly takeoff followed by a small cloud of balsa. Refer to the hundreds of video shorts on YouTube of unsuccessful maidens. Not so sure about what they teach anymore in college regardingtwo-stroke alcohol fueled engines and theirbreak-in - but the engine manual should cover that. Also ifyou pull up too quickly and stall. Orturn too low before airspeed is enough and stall. As you are a Dr. at this you should be ahead of the game when it comes to control surface movement.

It's ALL about learning how to react quickly, and then eventually learning how to fly so you are controlling the model rather than reacting. Aerodynamic theoryhas very little to do with it. Learning to control a model flying away from you vs. flying at you without transmitting the wrong input initially is technique based on practice.

jester_s1

I'm going to try and be genuinely helpful to you, but I'll preface my helpfulness by telling you in no uncertain terms that the condescending, rude, inflammatory jerks who have already posted in this thread are 100% right about what they've told you. They are some of the most helpful and decent guys around, and they are trying to help you. If you brush them off because you don't like what they've said then it's your loss.

So that said, you'll need to get the plane balanced both front to back and left to right (you probably have an aeronautic term for that, but I don't know what it is). Then you need to check everything for warps and fix them as necessary with a heat gun (not often an issue, but sometimes a wing can be off by as much as 3 degrees from one tip to the other). Then get all of the control surfaces perfectly straight (ailerons straight with the bottom of the wing, not the top). The engine needs to be run in properly and then tuned for flying. IDK if there is a course in the PhD program for that, but I assume you can read manuals if there wasn't. You'll need to set the control throws as recommended in the manual, and the plane will be ready for its first flight. At that point I suppose you're on your own because you don't want any help in actually piloting the plane.

slipknot 26

Garrie ,I sent you a PM

sensei

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

Well... OP you asked for it the way you posted. The guys that go it alone are far more likely to have problems, crashes and never succeed. This is not an intellectual pursuit. You can have all the knowledge and intelligence in the world and fail. This is a skill and the only way to learn it is practice (ie School of hard knocks). The Wright brothers taught themselves to fly because Gustav Whitehead (first to fly) was not available to give lessons. GA pilot skills do not translate to this activity. I have taught a 747 captain how to fly RC. Here is a guy with far more knowledge than you (AND ME) that is willing to ask and learn what he needs to know. He has a great learning attitude and aptitude. Anyone can learn this activity, it takes time, passion and skill to do it well.

You obviously don't have much of a budget because of some of your choices in servos, radio etc. Many guys at the local fields would donate and help a young guy (without your attitude) get started. Asking for help does not make you any less of a person, it is acknowledging that you don't know everything and can use some assistance. Not every answer you get will be correct, but people will try their best.

So loose the attitude, it will be the best thing you can do.

There is a darn good reason why engineers hire test pilots to fly their creation. They are UNQUALIFIED to do it.

rgburrill

Garrie, remember to take a big garbage bag with you for your first flight.  Often you can glue the pieces back together so you can have a second flight.

raptureboy

Your missing one of the best reasons to belong to a club and that is the friendships you develop. Sure you can go it alone and learn eventually with enough time and $ wasted but why? There are tons of threads on here you could learn from since you think that forums have all the answers you could just research it all on your own instead of us telling you all the answers; butagain, why? The best advice has already been given, buy a trainer, join a club, learn some things you only thought you knew.

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

All the bickering aside, my heartfelt advice is to go to your local flying field and OBSERVE. Find someone who actually demonstrates flying skills, not
bench-warming expertise commenting on what others can or cannot do with an airplane. Once you have identified this person, approach him as a friend, and ask for his assistance and advice. Make a new friend and learn from him. In the old days, this was called an apprenticeship. After a while, you will be able to carry on without help.

It's a great hobby, and one I have been utterly addicted to since I was 7 years old. If you lived in my area, I would gladly help you as I enjoy discussing aeronautic theory, even though I have little formal training.

Best of luck!

j.duncker

My Feedback: (2)

Yup You are gonna need one. More seriously most model flyers carry a bin bag as a way of collecting the bits. Doing things the way you plan means that it is about 97+% certain you will need it after the first [ very short ] flight.

OK Point 2 the buzzing means you have stalled servos, reduce the travel by moving the link IN on the servo or OUT on the control horn. You might also look to see if there is anything preventing full travel or causing the control rod to stick. Stalled servos draw A LOT of current and your battery will go flat fast. In practice the one this really matters on is the throttle.

Point 3 Do not fly till you fix this. Either the servo is not firmally fixed or there is a lot of friction somewhere. Anyway a model with ailerons that have no reliable neutral point will be very difficult to fly and need constant retrimming in the air. An experienced pilot will cope but not an inexperienced one.

Both the above are often seen on models that I perfom the safety inspection on before first flights. Along with hinges that can be pulled out, aerials that are not deployed, tanks with doubled clunk lines etc. etc.

If you insist on flying it without going to a club then take someone with you for the first flight and instruct them on how to work the trims on the transmitter. On your first flight the model will need trimming, you will be so busy keeping it airborne that you will not be able to look down to locate the trims and move them. Trust me on this I have maidened many a model and watched many a maiden. Even top pilots have asked for help on this at times.

But take the bin bag with you as I am pretty sure you are gonna need it after a few seconds of flight.

slipknot 26

Why the snide remarks? If you don't have anything positive to contribute, keep your derogatory comments to yourself. You Sir are the reason people dont like to ask any questions on forums like this. I guess it makes you feel like a man?

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

All right, folks. This is going on now and, so far, there has been one or two really helpful remarks. If you don't have anything to say that could help, then please reserve your remarks for "The Club" where no one really cares what you have to say.

Please keep your comments positive. The OP probably would appreciate that more than snide comments about trash bags and so on. Your point has been made and I'm sure he has read them. So, again, keep it positive.

CGr.
Moderator, Beginners Forum.

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

No moderator... I think you are out of line.. there is more help there than one or two... how can anyone possibly answer all the questions of a new pilot and a new builder in a thread such as this... the best answer is to have the guy seek some local help. We have all seen these guys (I was/am one of them) come and go. I stuck around long enough to find out that there is a lot to learn. It is not going to be answered on-line.

The guy is likely way under-funded and maybe should set this activity aside until he has adequate funding or is willing to seek help. He picked a tail dragger to increase the difficulty. He is flying an old radio (no computer adjustments), old servos. He does not seem to know about good throw rates or travel adjust. How am I or anyone going to answer all of this on-line? How am I going to pre-trim the plane for him? It can be done with his equipment, but it will take someone to help him.

He needs to have a builder adjust the plane for him and explain how...It needs to be test flown for him and trimmed. As it stands now, He has pretty much zero chance of succeeding.

So everyone here, in their own way, has announced that to him. Let's hope that he heads some well founded advice and proceeds accordingly.

All the answers are here on RCU, so maybe he would be better off reading a month or two's worth of questions and answers before posting.

ALWAYS CG with empty tank..

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

Hi, you balance the plane w a full tank. 

willig10

To the OP. first let me answer a few questions. CG is always done with an empty tank. Second if your servos are buzzing and not returning to neutral you have friction somewhere in the guide tubes or the control surfaces also if you are noticing the buzzing at extreme angles I am wondering if your throws are set to the criteria as per the manual. Being that you had to ask about the CG it tells me you are very inexperienced. Take my advice and go get your model looked over at a ying club. Then if you still insist on doing the maiden by yourself at least you will have peace of mind that the aircraft was mechanically ok prior to the crash.

do not let your ego get in the way of common sense. Ask a club member to show you around and perform the maiden and either put you on a buddy box or swap the transmitter. Dont needley crash due to pride.

regards
Glenn Williams

willig10

Lopfler is wrong by the way. Here is why. You always want a slightly nose heavy aircraft or level when on the cg stand. If you balance to center with a full tank the cg will go aft as the fuel burns off creating an aft cg situation. This will make the airplane squirrely and have a tendacy to want to snap at slow speed and high angle of attack.

I hate it when people give advice and dont have a clue.

Glenn

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

I ve being flying x 4 yrs now. It took me an instructor a trainer w a buddy box and 5 totaled planes to learn.

Charlie P.

That is not correct. You will become very tail heavy as the flight progresses unless the tank is on the center of gravity. Always balance dry.