phmaximus

why no nitro crawlers? or anything over 1/8 scale?....

SyCo_VeNoM

well as for over 1/8th scale I'd guess the cost to run it becomes a bit impractical as gas engines already exist which can put out similar power but for a fraction of the cost to run

crawlers I'd guess is due to how complex the tranny would have to be to convert the RPM's to torque, and slow it down

phmaximus

lol. sorry I was been a smarty pants.

hows this.....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKKtpjju4fc[/youtube]

Sixtysixdeuce

^^^^^

This. At $30/gallon, I wouldn't want to feed a 30cc 1/5 scale engine. Having said that, 1/5 is mostly gasoline engine; not too many electrics in that scale. You end up chewing through a lot of batteries trying to move a 35 pound vehicle at respectable speeds.

As for the crawlers, it's just not practical. It's been done, but while both nitro and electric have heat issues, electric doesn't generate (much) heat when static. In a low-geared, slow-moving crawler, you'd have to have on board cooling fans for a nitro. And honestly, as much of a nitro head as I am, I don't know that I'd want to listen to them buzzing in a close quarters crawling environment (Maybe a mellow 4 stroke, though).

The way I see it, under 1/10, electric makes the most sense. In 1/10 and 1/8, both electric and fuel work quite well. Larger than 1/8, gasoline powered is definitely the way to go. That RC18T I posted a picture of in my last post was made to be unique; a brushless would have been easier, lighter, faster and better handling due to lower center of gravity. In my 1/10 stuff, I've found dollar for dollar, the nitros give more bang for the buck; My buddy and I both spent $200 upgrading our vintage stuff (his RC10T and my RC10 gold pan Buggy) to brushless & LiPo, but the bone stock RC10GT I picked up on eBay for $103 and put a $15 pull start on will outrun them both with 2S batteries (stock gearing on all of them). Sure, a Mamba pro set up and 3S would make them pretty quick, but still not as quick as my GT with an OFNA .32 that I scored for $80 with only 200cc of fuel through it. You'd need a nasty 7,000+ KV and 4S to keep up with that truck.

Bottom line once again is that both have their benefits and detractors. Certain applications do better with electric, others with nitro. Either system can overpower the vehicle and the track, too.

JohnP2

Because it's not needed. ;-) I forget who posted it, but this one guy talked about his friend with a crawler who took like 60+ seconds to go over this curb, He then proudly said "Now you try it". That guy said he just punched it and jumped over the curb. Ha ha! That shows the breadth of interest in "the hobby". Call us knuckle-draggers, but fast, loud, and proud is what nitro is about!

SyCo_VeNoM

the clutch sounds like it is crying


JohnP2 if its the same one I think that guy that gunned it was using a summit vs his friends crawler

JohnP2

Got it....it was still funny nonetheless. ;-)

TtownToolman - in all seriousness, I hope you have a blast with your electric. If your grandson is anything like my kids - they can talk my parents into anything - I'm confident your investment will be well-worth it. I was going to get my 11-year old daughter an electric...but my son (Nitro Andrew) talked me out ofit. Instead he offered to let her drive hisLosi at the trackto see how she does - we'll see how long that lasts - and if she likes it we'll look at electric for her.

Ttowntoolman

I am here to report on my flashlight, the fastest race car I own! Damn this thing is quick, I cant even believe it. I once got in an argument/disagreement in one of our nitro verses electric discusions. I am here to apologize to all, I am sorry, you all are right, this 1/8th scale brushless stuff is the fastest shizz I ever attemted to control at a race track! Simply unbelievable performance.

My first race with this thing I finished 2nd in the A-main. Not too bad considering the car was box stock without so much as a tweek at the track on race day. I only had a 135 amp battery to work with because I could not get a bigger one in my hands before race day. I ran 2 laps more than my best performance with my clocked Nova in the outlaw nitro class. [X(]

So in sumary, the past 3 years I have been racing exclusivly Nitro 1/8th scale oval. My experiance is ALL about nitro engines, tuning, and racing. I took a brand new E-latemodel and shattered everything I have done to date on my first attemp with it.

This does not amuse me in any way, shape, or form. Nitro has definetly taken a back seat to the electric technology/Lipo battery. Wow.

turok007

you just wait until someone asks is you car nitro. you will say no and they will walk off saying it's rubbish and slow then. lol happened to me a few times.

supertib

Nitros are still beating the electrics in oval racing...at the monsters of the Midwest series race 2 weeks ago the Nitro's ended up pulling 2 more laps then the electrics did.........take the fastest runs from each class and nitro still owns electric ! .........At all the events we follow the nitros still are faster, pulling faster laps and more laps............ so BL may make more power, but it doesn't translate to track performance the same way.... Sometimes power density is more important then overall power...so go blow this whole BL thing out your arses as the results are definitely not showing BL surpassing nitro....when it comes to track performance nitro is still king !!!!!!!!!!!!!! The race results dont lie !

Also to add in GT cars the nitro is faster on the track then electrics...

with 1/8 onroad the nitros are also faster on he track

in 1/8th offroad nitro is also faster on the track.......

pretty much across the entire spectrum of RC track racing nitro is still faster then electric........so other then making pure power electric has not surpassed nitro, far from it............... so once again you electric guys can blow it out your arse,ãs nitro is still the king !


whats this ? poor little flashlight couldn't keep up to big bad nitro ? once again nitro owns electric on the track ! edit...I should add that if any track fovored an electric mine would be it...... More traction then hot asphalt, tight technical layout with short run obstacles..... Yet still nitro is still faster on the track......and we have a very large electric following at our track, with all the latest and greatest equipment....so in the end you electric boys can go beat your chests somewhere else....as on the track the nitros are still faster then the electrics......


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKD8pTZVODs[/youtube]

rcpowerhorse

Foxy

Neal you keep on beating that horse, I think it's still alive a little.

Ttowntoolman

Jeez, who peed in your wheaties? Relativly speaking, the Nitro Outlaws at our track are gettting 1 lap over the electrics in 4 minutes. So yes they are still faster. Now considering all the fastest guys run Outlaw Nitro and most of the E guys are new or running new un-tweeked equipment, these things have the potential to surpass the Nitro Outlaws yet this season.
Also consider that the outlaw Nitro guys have no limitation to the modifications to there power plant. The Electric cars have strict limitations on motor and battery. If the electrics were allowed the liberties the outlaw nitro guys were allowed the electrics would BURRY the nitro technology in an instant. I have both and LOVE to race both technologies, no chest pounding, just an unbiased compairo, sir.

The Hedgehog

Everyone knows it's the EQUIPMENT that wins races, not the drivers!

supertib

Nitro's are also limited to .28 size.....we could step up into the .45 and above sized engines and see a doubling or tripling of the power output............. When it comes to actual power density the nitro's still have a substantial advantage over electric........ Yes electrics can run more batteries, but we can also put in a much larger engine too.......Of course it is not common to do, but we have boat nitro's that will make triple the horsepower of that modified Nova 28.....So yes electrics can just keep adding batteries, but we can also just put in much larger nitro engines...........Under current regulations the nitro's are still outperforming electrics in most forms of racing.......

Ttowntoolman

My E-flashlights power plant cost me under 300 bucks, and I can use the batteries to hunt for night crawlers after the races are over...........

JohnP2

I respect your feedback on this as you've owned both.

Knowing what you do now.....If the RC gods came down and told you that youcould only have one type (Nitro or Electric) for the rest of your life....what would you choose? Only one to race/bash/wrench on, etc., never to see the other one again.

This is not a loaded question or to dismiss the one you would not choose.. just another way to look at it and curious what you would select.

Thanks

Ttowntoolman

NITRO

phmaximus

wow.... that's hard.....both are great. I mean the power band of a nitro is impressive for a IC engine and power delivery is smooth and ideal for racing.
but on the other hand the initial torque from a brushless setup is mental. its so easy and cheap to make them ridiculously over powered for 'stupid fast' bashers. I think brushless combos has really rocked the boat for 1/26-1/10 scale vehicles.

if I had to pick....id go electric. I believe there is so much more room for improvement with brushless setups.

phmaximus

might creat a thread about it, don't want to hijack this one lol

Foxy

Well said. This is what it really comes down to. One technology is at the end of its development cycle, the other is just beginning.

Ttowntoolman

I like this way of looking at it, thanks John.

Nitro is just plain more satisfying for me because of the challenge. Simply plugging in and playing is without satisfaction in my mind. The simplicity of the brushless technology is compairable to paint by numbers or skill level one plastic models, anyone can do it. The proof is in the result of my first race with it. Sure I had to come on hear and ask for this and that to make sure I was buying what I needed. I can do that with either technology.

I do not think Nitro/glow technology has yet reached its pinical. There is room for improvement and there are manufacturers still raising the bar. As long as there are people racing these engines, technology will continue to grow.

Either way, you still got to get around the track and that is up to the brick head behind the controls!

Embrace both technologies and you will never get left behind!

For the record, this was my 4th brushless system I have purchased. I am new to 1/8th scale brushless, I own three 1/10 systems and have raced them since 2007.

supertib

At the end of the day I have heard over and over how the new electrics have eclipsed the nitro's..How nitro is dying and how electric is taking over......How the performance of the electrics has left the nitro's in the dust........ However the fact is electric has not done anything of the sort.... In almost all forms of RC racing nitro is still the class to beat..... Yes electric makes more power, but at such a weight and balance penalty that the Nitros chew them up in the handling............... Electrics make more power, but cannot match the power density of a nitro...a nitro can make more power for its size and weight then a electric can....... For racing, especially circuit racing, power density is huge............ I Would say electrics have made high performance RC much more attainable for the common enthusiast, but in the higher forms of racing its still second fiddle to nitro and I dont see that changing anytime soon.... Batteries are still massive and heavy and they are not getting smaller anytime soon...

The Hedgehog

That's what they said 20 years ago about electrics. Jus sayin'

supertib

that is just pure fanboy talk right them homie ! electric is peaked for now, batteries are not getting any smaller anytime soon ! and there is nothing new on the horizon, what you see is what you get...check back in 10 years and maybe we will see something noteworthy, In the last couple of years electric has stagnated.........electric is still second fiddle on the track and will be for many years to come.....

electric is still awesome tho..... it allows novices to experience true high performance RC right out of the gate.... with a nitro it takes a couple of years to gain enough experience and skill to operate a higher end nitro to its full capacity....... In the RTR world electrics kill nitro, but in the race world not so much...........RTR nitro's are generally poor performing junk whereas RTR brushless are quite impressive and strong performing.......