Diving in. - guidance needed.
Im new and eager to dive in.
I read some of the forum and other web recommendations and decided to go for a building kit from tamiya. (Hornet or pumpkin etc...)
i understand that beside the car kit itself I need to buy batteries, charger and radio.
i was wonderingwhich are the ones to buy? Will it be better to invest more in these equipment considering that I would upgrade/or buy a new advanced model later on?
what are the recommended upgrades that I should look for as a beginner if any?
Much obliged,
potato.
So...all that said, if you still want to go for a Tamiya re-release type model, you should probably pick up a Tamiya Sport Tuned 540 motor (was considered a fairly high powered motor back then) and TEU 104BK ESC which is a common choice for that motor. These should ideally be run on older style NimH batteries (nowadays we use lipo which deliver much more power for much longer), as the ESC does not have a low voltage cutoff for lipo batteries (lipo batteries must not be discharged beyond a certain voltage or they are damaged). Modern ESCs incorporate this feature as standard, and in fact, as an alternative to the Tamiya TEU 104BK unit, you could pick up a Traxxas XL5 brushed ESC which would give you a perfectly fine ESC for the sport tuned motor, and has lipo cutoff built in, then at least you could use modern lipo batteries. IF you stick with NimH, a 6 cell shotgun style 'tamiya racing pack' battery is the one to look for. There are millions on the market that would do for this kind of usage, no need to be fussy with that motor. If you decide you want to use lipo (you really should), there's a battery recommendation down below (along with the rest of my thoughts )... In many cases these days a good lipo can be had cheaper than the old NimH batteries.
As a radio, any 2ch 2.4Ghz unit that includes a receiver will suffice. Futaba has a budget model [link=http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/61_119/products_id/208945/n/Futaba-3PRKA-24GHz-FHSS-Radio-System-w-R203GF-Receiver]the 3PRKA[/link] which is excellent value.
Then you'll need a steering servo. Anything will do for an older type Tamiya, literally anything. But you should consider getting a decent one, something like a Hitec 645MG at least (good value servo), then it will be strong and usable in your next car too.
Now...I'm going to assume that you are well educated and probably technically minded from the way your post is phrased, therefore, I'm also going to assume that you could build any RC car kit without too much trouble. Ok, so you want to build a nice kit? Try [link=http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_44_228_2582/products_id/218338/n/Axial-EXO-Terra-1-10th-Electric-4WD-Buggy-Kit]this one (Axial Exo)[/link]. The kit has had the price drop significantly and its a real bargain now. For electronics for this car, you should go for this great value set from one of the great names in brushless motors, Castle...[link=http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_221_911_1948_2957_2962/products_id/190600/n/Castle-Creations-Sidewinder-1-10-Scale-Short-Course-Brushless-Combo-w-Neu-Castle-1410-3800kV]Sidewinder SCT combo 3800kv[/link], the motor is phenomenal and the combo is cheap. The same radio and servo recommendations as above will do you fine (the Futaba radio for $69 and the 645MG servo for about $40 if I remember correctly). This set will make the Exo perform very well indeed. There are also tons of aftermarket upgrades you can buy and fit to the Exo at your own discretion. The stock car has few weaknesses if you don't jump it too high (if you do, the shock caps tend to pop off), it is a real tough car, hard to break it (check youtube you'll see ).
Then you'll just need batteries and a charger. Since you're living in Israel, your best bet is probably HobbyKing, so get this charger...
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store..._GENUINE_.html
and as many as you want of these batteries...
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...case_pack.html
I know that's a lot to take in, and you may want to also read my post about understanding electronics in the sticky thread at the top of this forum, I think it's the second or third post, if you need clarifications or have more questions, just fire away...
I personally like real engines and metal parts, so I go with nitro vehicles that have lots of aluminum & steel hop ups. What isn't available, I make myself. But I don't race, I just play & bash, so the vehicles being overweight, not well balanced & too powerful for competition use doesn't matter to me. If you want to compete, though, you need to consider that when selecting a kit.
Tamiya makes quality kits, but IMO, they are (for the most part) more along the lines of scale stuff rather than racing or serious bashing cars. Nothing wrong with them, but when it comes to competition use or seriously abusive bashing, most other makes are a better choice. If I wanted to crawl, though, I'd be deciding between Tamiya & Axial.
If you're just wanting a near-indestructible vehicle to bash with, I'd look at Associated, Losi, OFNA, HPI 1/8 scale buggies, truggies & monster trucks. 1/8 stuff is tougher and much more useable outdoors, whether nitro or electric. I have mostly 1/10 scale nitro, and while lots of fun and wicked fast, they get swallowed on a lot of the tracks that are designed to accommodate 1/8 and 1/5 vehicles, and they are also very susceptible to wind-especially on the sandy dirt roads out here. I love my RC10GTs, but my Losi Mega Baja 4x4 is far more useable in general.
So...all that said, if you still want to go for a Tamiya re-release type model, you should probably pick up a Tamiya Sport Tuned 540 motor (was considered a fairly high powered motor back then) and TEU 104BK ESC which is a common choice for that motor. These should ideally be run on older style NimH batteries (nowadays we use lipo which deliver much more power for much longer), as the ESC does not have a low voltage cutoff for lipo batteries (lipo batteries must not be discharged beyond a certain voltage or they are damaged).
Would like to add one thing the 104bk also does not have a BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit) which lowers, and regulated the voltage going into the receiver to 6 volts. Old receivers had the BEC built in so that wasn't an issue, but the greater majority of newer radios do not have one built into the receiver(as the ESC's generally have it now) so if you hook up the receiver to the 104bk they will fry.
But you could add a cheap 6V 3A UBEC in to get around the issue.
Now as recommendation of Tamiya kits I'd recommend the [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXTDR5&P=7]Plasma Edge[/link](DF-02) which comes in around $130. Its upgradeable to handle some punishment, and modern electronics. Seems Tamiya gave a new lease on the DF-02's life as [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCZTE&P=7]Aero Avante [/link] is one I never seen or heard of till today that seems to have come out this year that one has a newer ESC that has a BEC built in too
Will say Foxy recommended Axial, and the make some great kits.
Thank you very much for spending your time to reply my post.
I did not have the time to read it until recently. It took me a bit longer to understand what you guys wrote
To make my self more clear now, I am not going into racing, well not yet. I do look for a durable car as i probably crash it quite a lot as i am impatient when it comes to learning.
Since i remember Tamiya from the past and since i used to build lots of their models, i thought their cars will be also lots of fun. but if i understand correctly they did not align with all the new developments in the field? I would happily consider other kits, such as you recommened, as long as i am building them.
If you guys do have more kits in mind (2-3 to choose from will probably suffice) please let me know.
Foxy, I appriciate your time for answering in such depth my post. I do have 2 more questions:
Regarding the axial exo - why did you recommend a seperate motor combo for this car? does it come with no motor? or is it an upgrade? (if it does comes with kit motor, why the upgrade is so important?)
I tried reading the "understanding electric" post but it was too much for me at this stage. I think i need more basic understanding of what the function of each component before anything. (I do understand what the batteries do though...)
Regarding shopping online - do the hobby king shop that you recommended is a reliable source? do you know other shops that will ship to israel where i can buy online kits and accessories? (by the way, i am travelling quite often to HK and China so i can do shopping while im there too.)
Thanks in advance,
Potato.
For interest sake, the RTR has a very poor servo (will need replacing immediately), an average radio, an average motor and a good ESC. The servo, radio and motor/ESC combo that I recommended to you above are all MUCH better than what is supplied in the RTR (ESC is actually the same).
Hobbyking is 100% reliable, UNLESS you have a problem, then things can be a bit difficult, but what people don't realise is that their stuff is so cheap, even if you do have a problem or 2, you still save much, MUCH more than buying from the ridiculously overpriced brands. Hobbyking is one of the biggest names in the business, they are not known for their customer service though. My umpteenth order from them arrived a few days ago, no problems, as usual.
Great Planes bought Axial a while back. They have reduced the kit and RTR prices three times now since first release.
My money is on a kit update as the reason for the discontinuation. I always wondered why the kit offered no extras over the RTR (that's why I got the RTR, a cheap set of electronics for use elsewhere), like CVDs, alloy shocks or whatever. Most kits are higher spec than their RTR counterparts.
I stand by my recommendation of the Exo as one of the best value RCs at the moment, overall bang for your buck, parts will not be a problem for the foreseeable future. Get the RTR if you have to, it's still a good deal even with crappy servo. There are other vehicles that represent 'as good' value if that doesn't float your boat.
The OFNA LX2e for example...
another option is the kyosho sand master. one version comes with everything you need to build it (not sure if it has battery and charger or not).
thanks agian for the answers.
I liked the reviews and moveis i seen about the axial exo and decided to go for it.
Also the clear advice what to buy to go along with the kit made the decision easier.
alas it does seem the shops do not sell it anymore...
I found it on RC Planet (for 229$ (is it ok price?)) but you guys did not mention that shop so i am a bit clueless again. any ideas?
Potato.
I understand what you are saying about Mr. Jang, thats why i usually like to hear more than one opinion, mainly on things i do not understand.
unfortunately, it makes me more confused usually.
back to my pestering:
After 3 weeks of contemplating you are throwing me a serpent into the bed. you are cruel!
If I understand correctly basically it would be a much better "investment" if i go for a 1/8 kit. I would basically be able to use the same electronics in different bodies or upgrade the same body with different electronics to make it better. right?
last few questions please if you dont mind:
What makes the serpent 811 kit better then the lx2e? (170$ better (and there is another version for 505US$))
what would you recommend as the best return for money regarding the electronics for the 1/8 kits? Still the mamba combo and hitec servo?
I remind you that it is my 1st car so i assume i wont be able to handle mad power without wasting money andtimeon spare parts. unless it is adjustable, is it?
Unless there is a huge advantage in shelling another 170US$ I im leaning towards the lx2e.
Regarding the RTR my brother is too lazy to go into details at the moment and is bothered in the car looks only.
he likes the looks of the MT4 and the Revo E but I think it is a waste of money for someone who iscoordinationretarded and not quite sure if this hobby is for him. (although i could always take his car later on...)Maybe a monster truck is actually the car for him.
Which MT RTR (2 options will be enough to choose from ) would you recommend as the best value for beginner? Oh and will also be able to go around 30kmh on straight road out of the box?
I promise this is the last thread before buying the cars.
Many thanks for the help, i already feel we are related
Potato.
Foxy,
I understand what you are saying about Mr. Jang, thats why i usually like to hear more than one opinion, mainly on things i do not understand.
unfortunately, it makes me more confused usually.
back to my pestering:
After 3 weeks of contemplating you are throwing me a serpent into the bed. you are cruel!
If I understand correctly basically it would be a much better "investment" if i go for a 1/8 kit. I would basically be able to use the same electronics in different bodies or upgrade the same body with different electronics to make it better. right?
last few questions please if you dont mind:
What makes the serpent 811 kit better then the lx2e? (170$ better (and there is another version for 505US$))
what would you recommend as the best return for money regarding the electronics for the 1/8 kits? Still the mamba combo and hitec servo?
I remind you that it is my 1st car so i assume i wont be able to handle mad power without wasting money andtimeon spare parts. unless it is adjustable, is it?
Unless there is a huge advantage in shelling another 170US$ I im leaning towards the lx2e.
Regarding the RTR my brother is too lazy to go into details at the moment and is bothered in the car looks only.
he likes the looks of the MT4 and the Revo E but I think it is a waste of money for someone who iscoordinationretarded and not quite sure if this hobby is for him. (although i could always take his car later on...)Maybe a monster truck is actually the car for him.
Which MT RTR (2 options will be enough to choose from ) would you recommend as the best value for beginner? Oh and will also be able to go around 30kmh on straight road out of the box?
I promise this is the last thread before buying the cars.
Many thanks for the help, i already feel we are related
Potato.
When you see differing opinions on something from two experienced people in the field, the truth is always somewhere in the middle, and/or comes down to different styles of usage.
The classic layout that has been adopted by all off-road 4WD cars which call themselves 1/8th and conform in large part to racing requirements for their class, is arguably the single most evolved platform in the surface hobby. This is driven by the fact that they are a staple racing class for like, ever. The more people race, the more different budgets exist, so the more scope there is to cater for those who can really spend, and you end up with the top manufacturers producing phenomenally expensive vehicles which are incredibly well designed and engineered, employing exotic materials that are ever lighter and stronger. They then get their designs, if not their materials too, ripped off in part or in whole by the cheaper companies, and the result is that even the most basic models have a striking resemblance not just in appearance but also performance with their much higher priced counterparts. The other situation is that a company has a racing platform, and chooses to produce a budget platform based on it. Or in the case of OFNA, its a bit of both.
The LX2e is made by a company called Hong Nor, who over the years, have been responsible for a large proportion of the cars sold by OFNA (OFNA is a US distributor, they don't make anything and they do not really exist outside the US unless someone in another country chooses to import them from the US rather than from their Taiwanese OEMs, which would be an odd decision to say the least), along with another company called Hobao.
Outside of OFNA, both of these companies distribute their own stuff in Europe and most of the rest of the world, and both have a very good reputation, as well as models in their stables that have competed successfully on the world stage at one time or another, particularly the now discontinued line of Jammin Products endorsed by famous driver 'Jammin' Jay Halsey. The famous Hobao range is of course the Hyper range of products (now sold by HPI, though nobody's really clear what's happening with that at the moment, unforgiveable on HPI's part, as they've effectively killed one of the great long running lines in RC cars, anyway...).
The LX series has been going for many years and is Hong Nor's budget basher buggy, in both nitro and electric forms. They keep evolving it a little, and it always has represented good value for money if not exactly being a race winner out of the box. It's actually an absolutely amazing car for $199. The RTR is also incredible value. It has its weaknesses, but they are to be expected at its price point. The shock towers bend (who cares, bend em back until they snap then replace them or double them up), and those who are 'extreme' with their cars have found that the rear composite chassis brace is not strong enough to keep the chassis straight, and have braced the whole car front to rear. I HIGHLY doubt I would ever need to do this, as I just don't tend to jump my cars 20 feet in the air, but if that's in your plans it's worth mentioning. The ESC supplied with the RTR isn't the best, it cannot be programmed or callibrated, which is sinful, however it does its job adequately. The motor is of surprisingly low kv for a buggy, but again, it does its job fine for the money. The servo is not very good, but find me an RTR that has a good one, there aren't any(what do you want for a radio, esc, motor AND servo that adequately drives a 1/8th buggy on 4S andadds only $100 to the cost?? Again this is simply phenomenal value, weaknesses and all).
What does the 811 sport offer over an LX2e? On paper not a lot. In fact, I already regret mentioning it. You might have parts supply issues as well, though probably not. Serpent is still a euro brand, and while well known for quality is not exactly prevalent in the market, they keep stuff on the down low mostly. On paper the LX offers threaded shock bodies which the Serpent does not, but let's not mess around here, one is based on a very very serious race car, it will have better geometry and adjustability, but will that mean much to you? Probably not. In any case, I withdraw the recommendation, its hard to say to someone who just wants to mess around with a fast and well built RC car that the dollar difference is going to be worth it. To someone asking for a car to start racing with, the dollar difference is definitely worth it.
The mamba combo I linked above was for the Exo. You need a much bigger set for a 1/8th buggy. This is what I recommend (try not to stare at the price, I promise its worth it, all other suitable 6S capable systems from the 'quality' brands are the same price unfortunately (price fixing anyone)?)...there is a decent set available for $200 from a reliable Chinese brand called hobbywing (I have some of their stuff, it's good, but Castle, Tekin and the like are slightly better quality).
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...Package-2200kV
Its primarily a truggy set, which means its overkill in a buggy, even on 4S it will give you standing backflips on demand (with the right center differential setup, we can talk about this another time). The 645 servo is a good buggy servo for non-specific use, the 5645 is a bit better, and amainhobbies has a Protek brand servo which I'm trying out at the moment (so far so good in an Associated SC8, a short course based on a 1/8th truggy platform) which has better figures than both the Hitecs, I think its the 100S, yeh, this one...http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...tal-Gear-ServoGreat value for $45 for teh specs, its very fast and very strong.
Despite being your first car, I am confident you will be able to handle a 1/8th buggy without any issues, they drive very well on 4S. When you get brave you can always try 6S, but no need for that to start with, you will be nothing short of astonished the performance of the car on 4S with the right diff setup and gearing.
Lastly, imo, MT4>eRevo by miles, simply by virtue of its 1/8th truggy platform. The Revo is a great looking car no doubt, but I don't think I put it in the same class with the TTR.
If the word truggy keeping on popping up is giving you ideas, feel free to say, and I'll elaborate more on advantages and disadvantages, but be aware that a good electric truggy all finished will cost you more than double the LX2e RTR, and probably more. The MT4 is just about the cheapest way to get a truggy up and running on 6S, despite the fact its marketed as a MT. The next cheapest way would probably be the Hot Bodies D8T truggy (a nitro model), and an electric conversion for it, there are several options, but again you're looking at over 600 with decent euqipment.
Oh and 30kph? lol, you can double that (and then some), and that's on 4S, on 6S you can triple it. No joke, make sure you have space or go easy on the throttle. I think you're in for quite a surprise with the power and speed these cars offer. The stock gearing on the LX2e is good for about 35mph if I remember rightly, and about the same the MT4. Both can be geared for 40mph without putting too much strain on the electronics on 4S and nearly 60 (100kph) on 6S. Much faster speeds are achievable in short runs with taller gearing, but you cannot run a car full time for more than 60mph, the heat would be too much.
Don't forget to ask me about the differentials for whatever car you get.
Here's a shameless pimping of my pride and joy, an Xray XT8 converted to brushless, using the castle combo I linked and an XP DS1015 servo.
[link=http://s613.photobucket.com/user/foxy42_s2k/media/RC/xt8angle6_zpsbcc92a5e.jpg.html][/link]
Foxy,<o></o>
First of all your pimping worked. My brother decided he wants you car... I slapped him out of it and the final decisions were made:<o></o>
My brother is going to buy the exo terra RTR.<o></o>
I am going for the LX2e kit + mamba combo + protek servo.<o></o>
Since we need to purchase everyting together, for VAT reasons, I still very muchneed your help with the following:<o></o>
For the lx2e - what radio system you recommend? the Futuba 3prka as you recommended initially for the exo?
(By the way, do you know how the lipo cutoff works? will the radio system alert me or will the esc just stops?)
For the batteries and chargers - what shall we buy?
Would you say to go for the initial carger you recommended? (imax b6)
I presume for the exo rtr 3S lipo and for the lx2e 4s lipos. but what is recommended in terms of driving time? What will be the driving time on these batteries?
I am still trying to understand the motor-esc-battery matching but i do have some questions:
For the mamaba combo i saw that in the same price there is a 2650kv combo as well. I assume that it meant for different applications when one gives lower speed with higher torque. but i also see that the motors have different voltage input. what it means? why should i prefer one over the other?
If let's say the ESC is 100A, theoretically speaking - will a 5000mah 20C will give me more driving time then a 4000mah 25C? or do i get all this concpet wrong?
I do have many more questions, but i feel its time to drive a car. I hope i am not bothering you with all my questions as I feel it became rather a private tutoring then a forum discussion. I really appriciate all your replys, you are my RC guru.
by the way, i just bought a nissan qashqai for the family, it was easier and faster then buying these RC cars.
<o></o>
So, you want the same cells in a 4S configuration (I've not used these exact 4S packs, but I can tell by the dimensions they are the exact same cells as my 3S and 6S 40C zippy packs that I use all the time) for the LX...
thanks for the reply. again.
I think we have all the information at the moment to go ahead and make the purchases. We are excited.
I see that the main two shops you recommended throughout the thread are amainhoobbies.com and hobby king.There were other who linked also towerhobbies.
I assume all 3 are reputable good places to buy and i assume that the prices are also the same. I would go through them to see how we should make the orders.
I have two questions related to the purchasing please:
I saw many people advertise coupons for these sites, is it something worth wasting time and searching for?
Do you know this shop:http://www.advantagehobby.com/216108/AXIAX90024/?
My brother found it and it sells the exo RTR for 284US$. How can it be? (I think it is also the supplier of Amazon).
Ill write soon after we make the purchases.
cheers!
That is quite a saving on the Exo, I've heard of the store, no reason to think it is not exactly what it appears to be, but given the fact that Tower gives 25% off on big orders, I think overall it will still work out cheaper to make the whole order or as much of it as you can, at Tower.
Coupon codes are really important, when you have everything in the basket, let me knw total and I'll see what I can dig up.