FEJ Announcement
07-12-2013, 01:05 PM
#26
RE: FEJ Announcement
Rex it will not stop until they start answerig to customers like Falcon64, who paid a fortune for a 1/4 F-16 and got crap in return, and they dont even respond to him.
This was never about reps.......but I'm sure anyone who steps up to defend FEJ will get some love. Customers are pi$$ed.
David
This was never about reps.......but I'm sure anyone who steps up to defend FEJ will get some love. Customers are pi$$ed.
David
07-12-2013, 01:17 PM
#28
My Feedback: (34)
RE: FEJ Announcement
ORIGINAL: Justflying1
I think that it's a disgrace that a prototype is allowed to fly at a Jet event.
However I also think at least they are testing there planes, but should be done at an appropriate test site.
This should be done on a number of flights and tested to the planes full manuvability.
And no I'm not another FEJ haiter.
Ivan
I think that it's a disgrace that a prototype is allowed to fly at a Jet event.
However I also think at least they are testing there planes, but should be done at an appropriate test site.
This should be done on a number of flights and tested to the planes full manuvability.
And no I'm not another FEJ haiter.
Ivan
07-12-2013, 01:51 PM
#29
My Feedback: (86)
RE: FEJ Announcement
ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite
I disagree. If the prototype has been tested at home, and found to be airworthy, then there should be no problem. There IS a problem if this airplane had never been flown before though. I'm pretty sure against the AMA Safety Code for flying untested aircraft during events.
ORIGINAL: Justflying1
I think that it's a disgrace that a prototype is allowed to fly at a Jet event.
However I also think at least they are testing there planes, but should be done at an appropriate test site.
This should be done on a number of flights and tested to the planes full manuvability.
And no I'm not another FEJ haiter.
Ivan
I think that it's a disgrace that a prototype is allowed to fly at a Jet event.
However I also think at least they are testing there planes, but should be done at an appropriate test site.
This should be done on a number of flights and tested to the planes full manuvability.
And no I'm not another FEJ haiter.
Ivan
David, you are right about the issue with getting what you paid for...and in the timelines quoted. I am in total locked arms agreement with you on that point.
07-12-2013, 01:55 PM
#30
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RE: FEJ Announcement
Rex,
These are my answers to your concerns:
David S
These are my answers to your concerns:
ORIGINAL: rbxbear44
Just returning home from KY event...
Ok, I'm confused here...what is it that you guys want? You throw them under the bus when you say you want them to ''own up as a company'' and when they do...you throw them under the bus for doing it. Since this was their own factory jet, they had no choice but to own up to it! My question remains, had this jet been owned and assembled by another modeler, would they have "owned" up to it then, or left the modeler hanging?You ask them to fly their planes more and test them out but when they post that they are flying, you invade their threads and bash them for that. We want them to fly them more, in test mode, BEFORE offering them for sale to unsuspecting modelers. A MIBO A-10 goes down...nothing! The Mibo A-10 does not have a history of flutter failures. It was an engine out scenario, totally different! 3 other planes at the same event go down...nothing! Planes always go down at events. The point is WHY did they go down? Is it a mfg or pilot issue? Does it reflect a consistent pattern? A Large airframe from a manufacturer that is deeply loved by all of you, lands in full tail failure flutter...nothing! Can't speak to this, as I haven't heard about it. When someone posts ANYTHING showing response and purpose in any positive form, such as Lewis' comment...you climb all over them for making a point or agreeing with anything on the FEJ side. This FEJ issue has been going on in one form or another ,FOR YEARS! Do you honestly expect everything to be A OK because they finally did ONE thing asked for?
Safety is amazing at this event...Lewis Captains a great ship for sure! With 176 registered pilots as of Thursday evening...the event and that flight line is run with precision and care. You're absolutely correct! This has nothing to do with FEJ. But...just as a Large Hawk can go in because of a probably materials failure, the other jet that had it's Ailerons reversed, hitting within the same fenced in pasture...able to carry the same damage...nothing! Ailerons reversed is a pilot/builder issue, not a mfg one!
I told James and Ken with FEJ, I will help in any way I can to work through the process of making this Large Hawk a great airframe for the RC...and any other airframe they have for that matter! Many of us have made that same offer to FEJ over the years, only to be outright rejected for the positive info offered! I am NOT an engineer but I do build and have access to good folks that are not biased and with the proper background to help out. It's called pro-activity! To me, it seems much more than ''all for the sake of safety'' that is going on here... Safety has only become an issue because of all of the rejected sound advice offered to FEJ over the years by experienced modelers and even aerospace engineers, for Christ sake! The list of names reads like a list of Who's Who in this hobby. Almost all of it rejected by FEJ!
Looking from the outside in, it sure looks like a lynch mob to me. I saw all the parts at ground zero of the impact when the Hawk went down. The deck and all surrounding HC skin was fully intact and in it's exact position with no fracture where the servo and stab deck sits. BUT, FEJ has made a statement as a company and has committed in a public forum to take the airframe back into testing...as you demanded hey start doing when Dantley's 14 went in. Perhaps The airplane, should not have been out of testing yet! That jet is till being offered for sale on their website. Why? If it's in testing, it's not ready for sale and they shouldn't be taking orders with DEPOSITS or FULL PAYMENT for them! That's a whole nother issue! facepalm*...double facepalm*
Listen, you guys are not helping anything for the sake of safety...you are polarizing the jet community I beg to differ. It is the actions or inaction of FEJ that is polarizing the comunity!...many really good and seasoned pilots are signing off of RCU for good because of it. And good grief...how in the world can anyone get ticked at Lowell Wexler? He'd give you the shirt off his back and his last drink of water. Never met a more genuine ambassador for this hobby! I agree. Lowell has unfortunately been caught up in collateral damage, as a result of verified and confirmed FEJ missteps in handling issues regarding their customers. Unfortunately, when bombs drop, innocent people get hit.
Keep in mind, I have a 3W Bearcat, SM Large Viper and a Meister Scale FW190A sitting in my shop to build...not just FEJ airframes. I have six FEJ airframes and am not a FEJ hater. I just want them to do whats right by their customers! Offering jets for sale that have not been fully tested and then going dark, or attempting to place blame elsewhere when customers have structural failures with those jets is not only bad business, it puts potentially unsafe aircraft into the air.
Rex
Just returning home from KY event...
Ok, I'm confused here...what is it that you guys want? You throw them under the bus when you say you want them to ''own up as a company'' and when they do...you throw them under the bus for doing it. Since this was their own factory jet, they had no choice but to own up to it! My question remains, had this jet been owned and assembled by another modeler, would they have "owned" up to it then, or left the modeler hanging?You ask them to fly their planes more and test them out but when they post that they are flying, you invade their threads and bash them for that. We want them to fly them more, in test mode, BEFORE offering them for sale to unsuspecting modelers. A MIBO A-10 goes down...nothing! The Mibo A-10 does not have a history of flutter failures. It was an engine out scenario, totally different! 3 other planes at the same event go down...nothing! Planes always go down at events. The point is WHY did they go down? Is it a mfg or pilot issue? Does it reflect a consistent pattern? A Large airframe from a manufacturer that is deeply loved by all of you, lands in full tail failure flutter...nothing! Can't speak to this, as I haven't heard about it. When someone posts ANYTHING showing response and purpose in any positive form, such as Lewis' comment...you climb all over them for making a point or agreeing with anything on the FEJ side. This FEJ issue has been going on in one form or another ,FOR YEARS! Do you honestly expect everything to be A OK because they finally did ONE thing asked for?
Safety is amazing at this event...Lewis Captains a great ship for sure! With 176 registered pilots as of Thursday evening...the event and that flight line is run with precision and care. You're absolutely correct! This has nothing to do with FEJ. But...just as a Large Hawk can go in because of a probably materials failure, the other jet that had it's Ailerons reversed, hitting within the same fenced in pasture...able to carry the same damage...nothing! Ailerons reversed is a pilot/builder issue, not a mfg one!
I told James and Ken with FEJ, I will help in any way I can to work through the process of making this Large Hawk a great airframe for the RC...and any other airframe they have for that matter! Many of us have made that same offer to FEJ over the years, only to be outright rejected for the positive info offered! I am NOT an engineer but I do build and have access to good folks that are not biased and with the proper background to help out. It's called pro-activity! To me, it seems much more than ''all for the sake of safety'' that is going on here... Safety has only become an issue because of all of the rejected sound advice offered to FEJ over the years by experienced modelers and even aerospace engineers, for Christ sake! The list of names reads like a list of Who's Who in this hobby. Almost all of it rejected by FEJ!
Looking from the outside in, it sure looks like a lynch mob to me. I saw all the parts at ground zero of the impact when the Hawk went down. The deck and all surrounding HC skin was fully intact and in it's exact position with no fracture where the servo and stab deck sits. BUT, FEJ has made a statement as a company and has committed in a public forum to take the airframe back into testing...as you demanded hey start doing when Dantley's 14 went in. Perhaps The airplane, should not have been out of testing yet! That jet is till being offered for sale on their website. Why? If it's in testing, it's not ready for sale and they shouldn't be taking orders with DEPOSITS or FULL PAYMENT for them! That's a whole nother issue! facepalm*...double facepalm*
Listen, you guys are not helping anything for the sake of safety...you are polarizing the jet community I beg to differ. It is the actions or inaction of FEJ that is polarizing the comunity!...many really good and seasoned pilots are signing off of RCU for good because of it. And good grief...how in the world can anyone get ticked at Lowell Wexler? He'd give you the shirt off his back and his last drink of water. Never met a more genuine ambassador for this hobby! I agree. Lowell has unfortunately been caught up in collateral damage, as a result of verified and confirmed FEJ missteps in handling issues regarding their customers. Unfortunately, when bombs drop, innocent people get hit.
Keep in mind, I have a 3W Bearcat, SM Large Viper and a Meister Scale FW190A sitting in my shop to build...not just FEJ airframes. I have six FEJ airframes and am not a FEJ hater. I just want them to do whats right by their customers! Offering jets for sale that have not been fully tested and then going dark, or attempting to place blame elsewhere when customers have structural failures with those jets is not only bad business, it puts potentially unsafe aircraft into the air.
Rex
07-12-2013, 01:57 PM
#31
RE: FEJ Announcement
Rex, there are a few things I want to debunk because it seems as though we are living in some alternate reality.
1.) The issues with FEJ are being raised on RCU because FEJ won't repond to their customers. Customers come to RCU out of desperation for resolution.
2.) FEJ and their supporters need to stop blaming unhappy CUSTOMERS! Make them happy or at the very least, stop making them MORE unhappy!
3.) Stop trying to connect the current dissatisfaction with FEJ with plane failures with other manufacturers. This is one of the fundemental issues that you pro-FEJ guys miss. The other manufacturers may have failures, but they take care of their customers. They do not ignore or disrepect them. If Mibo, Skymaster, BVM, or any other manufacturer had customer service as bad as FEJ, you would hear about it on RCU.
1.) The issues with FEJ are being raised on RCU because FEJ won't repond to their customers. Customers come to RCU out of desperation for resolution.
2.) FEJ and their supporters need to stop blaming unhappy CUSTOMERS! Make them happy or at the very least, stop making them MORE unhappy!
3.) Stop trying to connect the current dissatisfaction with FEJ with plane failures with other manufacturers. This is one of the fundemental issues that you pro-FEJ guys miss. The other manufacturers may have failures, but they take care of their customers. They do not ignore or disrepect them. If Mibo, Skymaster, BVM, or any other manufacturer had customer service as bad as FEJ, you would hear about it on RCU.
07-12-2013, 02:21 PM
#32
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RE: FEJ Announcement
I wiil ner own another fej anything. Eventually they will make a quality product or they will go away.I'm looking forwrd to the auction at jok. They had a big hawk set out for auction. We'll see what happens.
07-12-2013, 02:28 PM
#33
My Feedback: (86)
RE: FEJ Announcement
David,
First of all, thank you for a very "productive" response...fresh wind for sure! I guess my points are these...
I think they are listening...or they would not have posted a statement. I also saw them ask several people that have been "pro-active" and not antagonistic to review the issue and loss...they asked me too
Would they have made the statement if it was another persons airframe? I guess most will not know that nor would they believe them if FEJ said they would have. But with Ali flying the airframe instead of their regular pilot Ken, they were willing to entrust the airframe into someones hands that would push the throttle and surfaces harder...taking pilot error as far from the excuse picture as possible...in my opinion.
If I were them, I'd have a hard time trusting the hands of those whom have bought "Shame on you FEJ" t-shirts. That's the "step" that took me over the fence on the whole thing.
As far as safety, I am just saying pilot error could yield equal catastrophe and happens many times more than two airframes in question...a step further on that...speed limit breaking is "heroic" in the same circles of the ones yelling foul on FEJ structure integrity. I agree more testing needs to be happening...as a matter of fact, just as a scale airframe is "never really completed", so should be the generations of airframes as they move through mods over the years.
David, it just seems really biased to me, especially when someone starts picking on Lewis Patton! Many, many of my friends over here on the other coastline...they have absolutely given up on RCU Jet Forums.
This is just my opinion.
Thanks for your insight.
Rex
First of all, thank you for a very "productive" response...fresh wind for sure! I guess my points are these...
I think they are listening...or they would not have posted a statement. I also saw them ask several people that have been "pro-active" and not antagonistic to review the issue and loss...they asked me too
Would they have made the statement if it was another persons airframe? I guess most will not know that nor would they believe them if FEJ said they would have. But with Ali flying the airframe instead of their regular pilot Ken, they were willing to entrust the airframe into someones hands that would push the throttle and surfaces harder...taking pilot error as far from the excuse picture as possible...in my opinion.If I were them, I'd have a hard time trusting the hands of those whom have bought "Shame on you FEJ" t-shirts. That's the "step" that took me over the fence on the whole thing.
As far as safety, I am just saying pilot error could yield equal catastrophe and happens many times more than two airframes in question...a step further on that...speed limit breaking is "heroic" in the same circles of the ones yelling foul on FEJ structure integrity. I agree more testing needs to be happening...as a matter of fact, just as a scale airframe is "never really completed", so should be the generations of airframes as they move through mods over the years.
David, it just seems really biased to me, especially when someone starts picking on Lewis Patton! Many, many of my friends over here on the other coastline...they have absolutely given up on RCU Jet Forums.
This is just my opinion.
Thanks for your insight.
Rex
07-12-2013, 03:13 PM
#34
RE: FEJ Announcement
Rex, since you referred to the F-14 crash, I will respond. The Shame on You shirts were not my idea (although I support it) and came about after weeks of no response from FEJ.
There is enough information available for people to make an informed decision on what to buy and what not to buy. I'm done.
There is enough information available for people to make an informed decision on what to buy and what not to buy. I'm done.
07-12-2013, 03:27 PM
#35
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RE: FEJ Announcement
ORIGINAL: David Searles
Rex,
These are my answers to your concerns:
David S
Rex,
These are my answers to your concerns:
ORIGINAL: rbxbear44
Just returning home from KY event...
Ok, I'm confused here...what is it that you guys want? You throw them under the bus when you say you want them to ''own up as a company'' and when they do...you throw them under the bus for doing it. Since this was their own factory jet, they had no choice but to own up to it! My question remains, had this jet been owned and assembled by another modeler, would they have ''owned'' up to it then, or left the modeler hanging?You ask them to fly their planes more and test them out but when they post that they are flying, you invade their threads and bash them for that. We want them to fly them more, in test mode, BEFORE offering them for sale to unsuspecting modelers. A MIBO A-10 goes down...nothing! The Mibo A-10 does not have a history of flutter failures. It was an engine out scenario, totally different! 3 other planes at the same event go down...nothing! Planes always go down at events. The point is WHY did they go down? Is it a mfg or pilot issue? Does it reflect a consistent pattern? A Large airframe from a manufacturer that is deeply loved by all of you, lands in full tail failure flutter...nothing! Can't speak to this, as I haven't heard about it. When someone posts ANYTHING showing response and purpose in any positive form, such as Lewis' comment...you climb all over them for making a point or agreeing with anything on the FEJ side. This FEJ issue has been going on in one form or another ,FOR YEARS! Do you honestly expect everything to be A OK because they finally did ONE thing asked for?
Safety is amazing at this event...Lewis Captains a great ship for sure! With 176 registered pilots as of Thursday evening...the event and that flight line is run with precision and care. You're absolutely correct! This has nothing to do with FEJ. But...just as a Large Hawk can go in because of a probably materials failure, the other jet that had it's Ailerons reversed, hitting within the same fenced in pasture...able to carry the same damage...nothing! Ailerons reversed is a pilot/builder issue, not a mfg one!
I told James and Ken with FEJ, I will help in any way I can to work through the process of making this Large Hawk a great airframe for the RC...and any other airframe they have for that matter! Many of us have made that same offer to FEJ over the years, only to be outright rejected for the positive info offered! I am NOT an engineer but I do build and have access to good folks that are not biased and with the proper background to help out. It's called pro-activity! To me, it seems much more than ''all for the sake of safety'' that is going on here... Safety has only become an issue because of all of the rejected sound advice offered to FEJ over the years by experienced modelers and even aerospace engineers, for Christ sake! The list of names reads like a list of Who's Who in this hobby. Almost all of it rejected by FEJ!
Looking from the outside in, it sure looks like a lynch mob to me. I saw all the parts at ground zero of the impact when the Hawk went down. The deck and all surrounding HC skin was fully intact and in it's exact position with no fracture where the servo and stab deck sits. BUT, FEJ has made a statement as a company and has committed in a public forum to take the airframe back into testing...as you demanded hey start doing when Dantley's 14 went in. Perhaps The airplane, should not have been out of testing yet! That jet is till being offered for sale on their website. Why? If it's in testing, it's not ready for sale and they shouldn't be taking orders with DEPOSITS or FULL PAYMENT for them! That's a whole nother issue! facepalm*...double facepalm*
Listen, you guys are not helping anything for the sake of safety...you are polarizing the jet community I beg to differ. It is the actions or inaction of FEJ that is polarizing the comunity!...many really good and seasoned pilots are signing off of RCU for good because of it. And good grief...how in the world can anyone get ticked at Lowell Wexler? He'd give you the shirt off his back and his last drink of water. Never met a more genuine ambassador for this hobby! I agree. Lowell has unfortunately been caught up in collateral damage, as a result of verified and confirmed FEJ missteps in handling issues regarding their customers. Unfortunately, when bombs drop, innocent people get hit.
Keep in mind, I have a 3W Bearcat, SM Large Viper and a Meister Scale FW190A sitting in my shop to build...not just FEJ airframes. I have six FEJ airframes and am not a FEJ hater. I just want them to do whats right by their customers! Offering jets for sale that have not been fully tested and then going dark, or attempting to place blame elsewhere when customers have structural failures with those jets is not only bad business, it puts potentially unsafe aircraft into the air.
Rex
Just returning home from KY event...
Ok, I'm confused here...what is it that you guys want? You throw them under the bus when you say you want them to ''own up as a company'' and when they do...you throw them under the bus for doing it. Since this was their own factory jet, they had no choice but to own up to it! My question remains, had this jet been owned and assembled by another modeler, would they have ''owned'' up to it then, or left the modeler hanging?You ask them to fly their planes more and test them out but when they post that they are flying, you invade their threads and bash them for that. We want them to fly them more, in test mode, BEFORE offering them for sale to unsuspecting modelers. A MIBO A-10 goes down...nothing! The Mibo A-10 does not have a history of flutter failures. It was an engine out scenario, totally different! 3 other planes at the same event go down...nothing! Planes always go down at events. The point is WHY did they go down? Is it a mfg or pilot issue? Does it reflect a consistent pattern? A Large airframe from a manufacturer that is deeply loved by all of you, lands in full tail failure flutter...nothing! Can't speak to this, as I haven't heard about it. When someone posts ANYTHING showing response and purpose in any positive form, such as Lewis' comment...you climb all over them for making a point or agreeing with anything on the FEJ side. This FEJ issue has been going on in one form or another ,FOR YEARS! Do you honestly expect everything to be A OK because they finally did ONE thing asked for?
Safety is amazing at this event...Lewis Captains a great ship for sure! With 176 registered pilots as of Thursday evening...the event and that flight line is run with precision and care. You're absolutely correct! This has nothing to do with FEJ. But...just as a Large Hawk can go in because of a probably materials failure, the other jet that had it's Ailerons reversed, hitting within the same fenced in pasture...able to carry the same damage...nothing! Ailerons reversed is a pilot/builder issue, not a mfg one!
I told James and Ken with FEJ, I will help in any way I can to work through the process of making this Large Hawk a great airframe for the RC...and any other airframe they have for that matter! Many of us have made that same offer to FEJ over the years, only to be outright rejected for the positive info offered! I am NOT an engineer but I do build and have access to good folks that are not biased and with the proper background to help out. It's called pro-activity! To me, it seems much more than ''all for the sake of safety'' that is going on here... Safety has only become an issue because of all of the rejected sound advice offered to FEJ over the years by experienced modelers and even aerospace engineers, for Christ sake! The list of names reads like a list of Who's Who in this hobby. Almost all of it rejected by FEJ!
Looking from the outside in, it sure looks like a lynch mob to me. I saw all the parts at ground zero of the impact when the Hawk went down. The deck and all surrounding HC skin was fully intact and in it's exact position with no fracture where the servo and stab deck sits. BUT, FEJ has made a statement as a company and has committed in a public forum to take the airframe back into testing...as you demanded hey start doing when Dantley's 14 went in. Perhaps The airplane, should not have been out of testing yet! That jet is till being offered for sale on their website. Why? If it's in testing, it's not ready for sale and they shouldn't be taking orders with DEPOSITS or FULL PAYMENT for them! That's a whole nother issue! facepalm*...double facepalm*
Listen, you guys are not helping anything for the sake of safety...you are polarizing the jet community I beg to differ. It is the actions or inaction of FEJ that is polarizing the comunity!...many really good and seasoned pilots are signing off of RCU for good because of it. And good grief...how in the world can anyone get ticked at Lowell Wexler? He'd give you the shirt off his back and his last drink of water. Never met a more genuine ambassador for this hobby! I agree. Lowell has unfortunately been caught up in collateral damage, as a result of verified and confirmed FEJ missteps in handling issues regarding their customers. Unfortunately, when bombs drop, innocent people get hit.
Keep in mind, I have a 3W Bearcat, SM Large Viper and a Meister Scale FW190A sitting in my shop to build...not just FEJ airframes. I have six FEJ airframes and am not a FEJ hater. I just want them to do whats right by their customers! Offering jets for sale that have not been fully tested and then going dark, or attempting to place blame elsewhere when customers have structural failures with those jets is not only bad business, it puts potentially unsafe aircraft into the air.
Rex
Couldn't have said it better myself. FEJ is getting everything they deserve. Feel free to support them Rex, but dont come here on RCU expecting people to sway to your side. Maybe they will let you test some of their aircraft in STOCK configuration with all of your internals, I bet you would jump on that in a heartbeat.......NOT!!
Child please!!!!!
07-12-2013, 04:05 PM
#36
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RE: FEJ Announcement
ORIGINAL: rbxbear44
David,
First of all, thank you for a very ''productive'' response...fresh wind for sure! My pleasure! Real problems need real answers and real action, I know of no other way to accomplish same. I guess my points are these...
I think they are listening...or they would not have posted a statement. I also saw them ask several people that have been ''pro-active'' and not antagonistic to review the issue and loss...they asked me too Would they have made the statement if it was another persons airframe? I guess most will not know that nor would they believe them if FEJ said they would have. If they are, in fact, now finally listening, that is a good thing for the hobby. Part of listening though, is the realization that they have a significant level of "fence mending" that needs to be done with members of this community for past behavior. Owning up to that would be a huge step forward! But with Ali flying the airframe instead of their regular pilot Ken, they were willing to entrust the airframe into someones hands that would push the throttle and surfaces harder...taking pilot error as far from the excuse picture as possible...in my opinion. Please remember that only two years ago, or maybe less, Ali would have nothing to do with their aircraft! Things change sometimes from top to bottom and Ali would certainly be on the top rung. The changes don't always happen as fast or, fast enough, for the little guys on the lower rungs that have taken the brunt of the FEJ mistakes. So you shouldn't be surprised that those pilots/customers are still stinging and somewhat resentful. It's human nature.
If I were them, I'd have a hard time trusting the hands of those whom have bought ''Shame on you FEJ'' t-shirts. Those folks that bought shirts bought them because they finally lost trust in FEJ! Who's fault is that? That's the ''step'' that took me over the fence on the whole thing.
As far as safety, I am just saying pilot error could yield equal catastrophe and happens many times more than two airframes in question...a step further on that...speed limit breaking is ''heroic'' in the same circles of the ones yelling foul on FEJ structure integrity. Rex, what's the speed limit posted by FEJ on any of their jets? None of them are capable of exceeding the 200mph AMA limit, so where is it, and how would a pilot know until he unfortunately breaks it at a speed so low he had no reasonable expectation he would have a structural failure at that point? I agree more testing needs to be happening...AGREED, but it should be done on their own dime, not that of unsuspecting pilot/owners who have paid good money for an aircraft not capable of surviving a flight performed by one of the best, most controlled pilots in the world! Hell, if Ali Machinchy couldn't complete the flight without it experiencing structural failure, what chance would the rest of us poor schmucks have?! a matter of fact, just as a scale airframe is ''never really completed'', so should be the generations of airframes as they move through mods over the years.
David, it just seems really biased to me, especially when someone starts picking on Lewis Patton! Lewis Patton is a dear friend, but as a FEJ sponsored pilot, his opinion, by rule, can no longer be considered purely objective. This is why RCU requires anyone sponsored to show that tag in their signature. I will defend his honor and integrity with my entire soul, but again as I mentioned before: when bombs drop, innocent people get hit. It's the nature of business. Many, many of my friends over here on the other coastline...they have absolutely given up on RCU Jet Forums. We all do, at some point or another. I still have Hate mail PM's from 4-5 years ago I received while I was defending FEJ's early models and missteps. I said to Hell with it myself, for a while. I have experienced both sides of this issue. And yet here we are again! I'm not sure if this makes me a masochist or just stupid!
I just love the hobby!
This is just my opinion.
Thanks for your insight.
Rex
David,
First of all, thank you for a very ''productive'' response...fresh wind for sure! My pleasure! Real problems need real answers and real action, I know of no other way to accomplish same. I guess my points are these...
I think they are listening...or they would not have posted a statement. I also saw them ask several people that have been ''pro-active'' and not antagonistic to review the issue and loss...they asked me too
Would they have made the statement if it was another persons airframe? I guess most will not know that nor would they believe them if FEJ said they would have. If they are, in fact, now finally listening, that is a good thing for the hobby. Part of listening though, is the realization that they have a significant level of "fence mending" that needs to be done with members of this community for past behavior. Owning up to that would be a huge step forward! But with Ali flying the airframe instead of their regular pilot Ken, they were willing to entrust the airframe into someones hands that would push the throttle and surfaces harder...taking pilot error as far from the excuse picture as possible...in my opinion. Please remember that only two years ago, or maybe less, Ali would have nothing to do with their aircraft! Things change sometimes from top to bottom and Ali would certainly be on the top rung. The changes don't always happen as fast or, fast enough, for the little guys on the lower rungs that have taken the brunt of the FEJ mistakes. So you shouldn't be surprised that those pilots/customers are still stinging and somewhat resentful. It's human nature.If I were them, I'd have a hard time trusting the hands of those whom have bought ''Shame on you FEJ'' t-shirts. Those folks that bought shirts bought them because they finally lost trust in FEJ! Who's fault is that? That's the ''step'' that took me over the fence on the whole thing.
As far as safety, I am just saying pilot error could yield equal catastrophe and happens many times more than two airframes in question...a step further on that...speed limit breaking is ''heroic'' in the same circles of the ones yelling foul on FEJ structure integrity. Rex, what's the speed limit posted by FEJ on any of their jets? None of them are capable of exceeding the 200mph AMA limit, so where is it, and how would a pilot know until he unfortunately breaks it at a speed so low he had no reasonable expectation he would have a structural failure at that point? I agree more testing needs to be happening...AGREED, but it should be done on their own dime, not that of unsuspecting pilot/owners who have paid good money for an aircraft not capable of surviving a flight performed by one of the best, most controlled pilots in the world! Hell, if Ali Machinchy couldn't complete the flight without it experiencing structural failure, what chance would the rest of us poor schmucks have?! a matter of fact, just as a scale airframe is ''never really completed'', so should be the generations of airframes as they move through mods over the years.
David, it just seems really biased to me, especially when someone starts picking on Lewis Patton! Lewis Patton is a dear friend, but as a FEJ sponsored pilot, his opinion, by rule, can no longer be considered purely objective. This is why RCU requires anyone sponsored to show that tag in their signature. I will defend his honor and integrity with my entire soul, but again as I mentioned before: when bombs drop, innocent people get hit. It's the nature of business. Many, many of my friends over here on the other coastline...they have absolutely given up on RCU Jet Forums. We all do, at some point or another. I still have Hate mail PM's from 4-5 years ago I received while I was defending FEJ's early models and missteps. I said to Hell with it myself, for a while. I have experienced both sides of this issue. And yet here we are again! I'm not sure if this makes me a masochist or just stupid!
I just love the hobby!This is just my opinion.
Thanks for your insight.
Rex
As I remember they even made that delivery date within a few days!David S
07-12-2013, 05:19 PM
#37
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RE: FEJ Announcement
David,
Yea...I remember...you and I each bought one of the first batch of 10 of the 1/7 F-18's. Man, they were heavy! It took full throttle with my Rhino to keep it in the air!!! I was sitting at Liberty Bell Jet Rally in PA that year, flying a SM F-4 and Kingcat at the time, when Eric Clapp came over to me and told me about this new company that was all about making larger airframes. Man, I flew the mongo out of that airframe for two years once I got a bigger engine for it!
All the delivery times I was ever given and even the guys I built for, were within a week of when promised. It's not been that way lately for everyone but maybe they are catching up now...a buddy of mine is getting his F-4 in right at the end of 14 weeks. Got pics yesterday and it ships when they get his final payment.
Dantley,
I understand your position and respect it but my personal experience and a few friends of mine also, did not receive any customer care on some airframe issues that were known problems after total losses of airframes. My experience was over three years ago but a particular buddy lost a large Viper a year ago and received just a small discount offer, even after admitting they knew there was a problem with the vertical fin and rudder structure.
So, as you are, I am speaking from personal experience of other manufacturers too.
Rex
Yea...I remember...you and I each bought one of the first batch of 10 of the 1/7 F-18's. Man, they were heavy! It took full throttle with my Rhino to keep it in the air!!! I was sitting at Liberty Bell Jet Rally in PA that year, flying a SM F-4 and Kingcat at the time, when Eric Clapp came over to me and told me about this new company that was all about making larger airframes. Man, I flew the mongo out of that airframe for two years once I got a bigger engine for it!
All the delivery times I was ever given and even the guys I built for, were within a week of when promised. It's not been that way lately for everyone but maybe they are catching up now...a buddy of mine is getting his F-4 in right at the end of 14 weeks. Got pics yesterday and it ships when they get his final payment.
Dantley,
I understand your position and respect it but my personal experience and a few friends of mine also, did not receive any customer care on some airframe issues that were known problems after total losses of airframes. My experience was over three years ago but a particular buddy lost a large Viper a year ago and received just a small discount offer, even after admitting they knew there was a problem with the vertical fin and rudder structure.
So, as you are, I am speaking from personal experience of other manufacturers too.
Rex
07-12-2013, 08:15 PM
#38
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RE: FEJ Announcement
The ONLY ones I see upset are YOU BASHERS!! That cry bloody murder because you send a email full of cuss words, demands, more cuss words, and more demands..... That's your whole letter to them! Hell, I would delete it to. Do you talk that way to your kids, wife, co-workers, girlfriends, and so on..... I tend to think you don't... SO WHY, do you do it to them??? All it does is belittle your IQ, if there is one!! I get a response almost all the time... Why, because I ask questions, ask with intelligence, and so on... You don't have to scream, for those of you that are lipping off, how has that been working for you????? So what, You have to wait a little longer... Is it really going to kill you? are you going to die if you don't have it fast? I really think the answer is, (No) so why????? Some of you complaining probably never had a FEJ, OR never flew one.... you just want to be part of the democracy... Like Rex said..... I see NO ONE jumping on the A10 that went out of control and could have killed someone.....
I know I keep telling you guys about Insurance...... Have ANY and I mean ANY of you called??????? Why not????? Here it is again....
State Farm Insurance, ask for Donna phone # (816) 781-4960 Please don't let FEAR of knowing the truth stop you!!
Gerry
07-12-2013, 08:43 PM
#39
RE: FEJ Announcement
Insurance for what???? I've tried real hard to stay out of these threads but honestly man, the way you kiss fly eagle ***** you must be a majority shareholder in the company. You have offered nothing of value to the threads, offered no solutions, instead you keep sticking up for a company that is doing nothing right by their customers. I don't get it. I know you'll come back at me after this post but frankly I just don't care, your opinion is truly about as powerful as a fart in a windstorm.....
07-12-2013, 09:26 PM
#40
RE: FEJ Announcement
ORIGINAL: ianober
My point exactly.
ORIGINAL: Jeremy300
Why is a PROTOTYPE that hasn't undergone a proper testing regiment flying at a MAJOR jet event???? This shows absolute contempt for the safety of other modellers.
ORIGINAL: Johnny Wong
Dear customers, we flown the new prototype Big Hawk today at KY Jets, unfortunately we lost it and we are investigating the problem. we believe we understand what happened and we are going to fix it right away ! For now, we have decided to place the Large Hawk back into testing mode until we feel we have a solid solution for this airplane . This is not a problem the 1/5.5 or 1/4.5 Hawks! We Appreciate your understanding and your support , FEJ Team
Dear customers, we flown the new prototype Big Hawk today at KY Jets, unfortunately we lost it and we are investigating the problem. we believe we understand what happened and we are going to fix it right away ! For now, we have decided to place the Large Hawk back into testing mode until we feel we have a solid solution for this airplane . This is not a problem the 1/5.5 or 1/4.5 Hawks! We Appreciate your understanding and your support , FEJ Team
Why is a PROTOTYPE that hasn't undergone a proper testing regiment flying at a MAJOR jet event???? This shows absolute contempt for the safety of other modellers.
07-13-2013, 05:12 AM
#42
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RE: FEJ Announcement
ORIGINAL: rbxbear44
Just returning home from KY event...
Ok, I'm confused here...what is it that you guys want? You throw them under the bus when you say you want them to "own up as a company" and when they do...you throw them under the bus for doing it. You ask them to fly their planes more and test them out but when they post that they are flying, you invade their threads and bash them for that. A MIBO A-10 goes down...nothing! 3 other planes at the same event go down...nothing! A Large airframe from a manufacturer that is deeply loved by all of you, lands in full tail failure flutter...nothing! When someone posts ANYTHING showing response and purpose in any positive form, such as Lewis' comment...you climb all over them for making a point or agreeing with anything on the FEJ side.
Safety is amazing at this event...Lewis Captains a great ship for sure! With 176 registered pilots as of Thursday evening...the event and that flight line is run with precision and care. But...just as a Large Hawk can go in because of a probably materials failure, the other jet that had it's Ailerons reversed, hitting within the same fenced in pasture...able to carry the same damage...nothing!
I told James and Ken with FEJ, I will help in any way I can to work through the process of making this Large Hawk a great airframe for the RC...and any other airframe they have for that matter! I am NOT an engineer but I do build and have access to good folks that are not biased and with the proper background to help out. It's called pro-activity! To me, it seems much more than "all for the sake of safety" that is going on here...
Looking from the outside in, it sure looks like a lynch mob to me. I saw all the parts at ground zero of the impact when the Hawk went down. The deck and all surrounding HC skin was fully intact and in it's exact position with no fracture where the servo and stab deck sits. BUT, FEJ has made a statement as a company and has committed in a public forum to take the airframe back into testing...as you demanded hey start doing when Dantley's 14 went in. facepalm*...double facepalm*
Listen, you guys are not helping anything for the sake of safety...you are polarizing the jet community...many really good and seasoned pilots are signing off of RCU for good because of it. And good grief...how in the world can anyone get ticked at Lowell Wexler? He'd give you the shirt off his back and his last drink of water. Never met a more genuine ambassador for this hobby!
Keep in mind, I have a 3W Bearcat, SM Large Viper and a Meister Scale FW190A sitting in my shop to build...not just FEJ airframes.
Rex
Just returning home from KY event...
Ok, I'm confused here...what is it that you guys want? You throw them under the bus when you say you want them to "own up as a company" and when they do...you throw them under the bus for doing it. You ask them to fly their planes more and test them out but when they post that they are flying, you invade their threads and bash them for that. A MIBO A-10 goes down...nothing! 3 other planes at the same event go down...nothing! A Large airframe from a manufacturer that is deeply loved by all of you, lands in full tail failure flutter...nothing! When someone posts ANYTHING showing response and purpose in any positive form, such as Lewis' comment...you climb all over them for making a point or agreeing with anything on the FEJ side.
Safety is amazing at this event...Lewis Captains a great ship for sure! With 176 registered pilots as of Thursday evening...the event and that flight line is run with precision and care. But...just as a Large Hawk can go in because of a probably materials failure, the other jet that had it's Ailerons reversed, hitting within the same fenced in pasture...able to carry the same damage...nothing!
I told James and Ken with FEJ, I will help in any way I can to work through the process of making this Large Hawk a great airframe for the RC...and any other airframe they have for that matter! I am NOT an engineer but I do build and have access to good folks that are not biased and with the proper background to help out. It's called pro-activity! To me, it seems much more than "all for the sake of safety" that is going on here...
Looking from the outside in, it sure looks like a lynch mob to me. I saw all the parts at ground zero of the impact when the Hawk went down. The deck and all surrounding HC skin was fully intact and in it's exact position with no fracture where the servo and stab deck sits. BUT, FEJ has made a statement as a company and has committed in a public forum to take the airframe back into testing...as you demanded hey start doing when Dantley's 14 went in. facepalm*...double facepalm*
Listen, you guys are not helping anything for the sake of safety...you are polarizing the jet community...many really good and seasoned pilots are signing off of RCU for good because of it. And good grief...how in the world can anyone get ticked at Lowell Wexler? He'd give you the shirt off his back and his last drink of water. Never met a more genuine ambassador for this hobby!
Keep in mind, I have a 3W Bearcat, SM Large Viper and a Meister Scale FW190A sitting in my shop to build...not just FEJ airframes.
Rex
07-13-2013, 05:19 AM
#43
RE: FEJ Announcement
ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite
I disagree. If the prototype has been tested at home, and found to be airworthy, then there should be no problem. There IS a problem if this airplane had never been flown before though. I'm pretty sure against the AMA Safety Code for flying untested aircraft during events.
ORIGINAL: Justflying1
I think that it's a disgrace that a prototype is allowed to fly at a Jet event.
However I also think at least they are testing there planes, but should be done at an appropriate test site.
This should be done on a number of flights and tested to the planes full manuvability.
And no I'm not another FEJ haiter.
Ivan
I think that it's a disgrace that a prototype is allowed to fly at a Jet event.
However I also think at least they are testing there planes, but should be done at an appropriate test site.
This should be done on a number of flights and tested to the planes full manuvability.
And no I'm not another FEJ haiter.
Ivan
Besides, FEJ's "testing" is as poor as its engineering quality. I'm prone to think they accidently flew this jet faster than their usual "Piper Cub style-speed" test flight and encountered flutter ... just like their customers encounter.
Finally, FEJ is a victim of their own doing !!!
07-13-2013, 05:30 AM
#44
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RE: FEJ Announcement
Here is where I have issues with FEJ. Mr. Wong comes on here (RCU) and posts pictures of his tent area with the models on display. Then posts about the crash of the hawk. Numerous people have tried to get him to interact with them, in regards to questions they have, and he (Mr. Wong) does not respond at all, but posts more pictures as if nothing has occured.
I take this as thumbing his nose at everyone.
The attitude has been set from his end, not the modelers. When you ignore your customer base, and do not respond to anything and continue to post pictures as if everything is peachy and rosy what do you expect customers to do?
Also the Hawk had flutter issues as did other aircraft FEJ produced. In as much they (FEJ) place blame on the customers aircraft and the way they were assembled, but when it occures on their own aircraft they decide to take it back to "test" status.
I have issues with a new maiden at an event as do many others. So in essence what is going on here is if your a sponsor anything goes?
It is time for Mr. Wong to take responsibility and quit ignoring the good people who have paid large sums of money to get an aircraft that is flight worthy and quit blaming the end user of assembling the jet incorrectly i.e missing screws etc. when obviously inferior materials are being used in the wrong area.
My 2 cents worth.
Glenn Williams
I take this as thumbing his nose at everyone.
The attitude has been set from his end, not the modelers. When you ignore your customer base, and do not respond to anything and continue to post pictures as if everything is peachy and rosy what do you expect customers to do?
Also the Hawk had flutter issues as did other aircraft FEJ produced. In as much they (FEJ) place blame on the customers aircraft and the way they were assembled, but when it occures on their own aircraft they decide to take it back to "test" status.
I have issues with a new maiden at an event as do many others. So in essence what is going on here is if your a sponsor anything goes?
It is time for Mr. Wong to take responsibility and quit ignoring the good people who have paid large sums of money to get an aircraft that is flight worthy and quit blaming the end user of assembling the jet incorrectly i.e missing screws etc. when obviously inferior materials are being used in the wrong area.
My 2 cents worth.
Glenn Williams
07-13-2013, 05:32 AM
#45
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RE: FEJ Announcement
i bought 4 fej jet and i never had to pay all the money up front.
Airplane- how many fej jet u purchased and how many times they ask you to put all the money up front?
Airplane- how many fej jet u purchased and how many times they ask you to put all the money up front?
07-13-2013, 05:33 AM
#46
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RE: FEJ Announcement
Quite a few FEJ fanboys have walked from out of the floorboards on this one! I think it's disgusting that FEJ are happy to announce about a product but put a blanket over their current customers who are waiting on an answer!
I seriously hope they go bust, there's no room in this type of market for idiots that care more about money than responding to long serving / waiting customers. If this was in the UK trading standards would have closed these cowboys down long ago!
I seriously hope they go bust, there's no room in this type of market for idiots that care more about money than responding to long serving / waiting customers. If this was in the UK trading standards would have closed these cowboys down long ago!
07-13-2013, 06:39 AM
#47
My Feedback: (86)
RE: FEJ Announcement
ORIGINAL: willig10
I have issues with a new maiden at an event as do many others. So in essence what is going on here is if your a sponsor anything goes?
My 2 cents worth.
Glenn Williams
I have issues with a new maiden at an event as do many others. So in essence what is going on here is if your a sponsor anything goes?
My 2 cents worth.
Glenn Williams
I can't address the other items but I can address this one with knowledge...
It was not a new maiden flight. The airframe was inspected and certified under AMA rules (not by me) and had 7 flights on this particular airframe. I confirmed that info. myself.
The CD of the event, at times, AFTER normal flying hours, will allow LTMA-1 and LTMA-2 Inspections and flights to occur...at their discretion, AFTER hours of normal flight operations. There are several areas in the US where there are not 2 CD's or AMA Inspectors within reasonable distance to travel, so there are some folks that pre-arrange or ask the CD for permission to have their planes inspected during the event days but after hours of normal flying.
Rex
07-13-2013, 09:25 AM
#49
RE: FEJ Announcement
General,
I don't think anyone is really questioning you or your judgement. I think everyone knows you put on a world-class event, and are a world-class guy. At my one-and-only trip to KYJ, I approached you about putting a maiden on my F-15. I recall that you asked me several questions about the plane, and I basically represented to you that while the plane itself had never flown, I had tons of stick-time on several of the exact same ARF with the exact same setup. You basically said that you knew I was a good pilot and you had no reservations at all... but that you had to be conscientious about the rules. Instead of making me wait until the end-of-day, you went and talked to the guys on the flight-line and then basically suspended flying and put the event on hold to give me the sky to myself to do my maiden. As a CD myself, I knew you had the prerogative to do that (though I would never have asked for a concession like that at a huge event), but I was so pleasantly surprised when you walked over and told me that you were shutting down the event for 10 minutes for me.
I thought, "What a class act. The Generous General."
My buddies were warming up the gong for me, but I think I disappointed them with a 10-out-of-10 landing
Thanks for KYJ and everything else you do for RC jets.
I don't think anyone is really questioning you or your judgement. I think everyone knows you put on a world-class event, and are a world-class guy. At my one-and-only trip to KYJ, I approached you about putting a maiden on my F-15. I recall that you asked me several questions about the plane, and I basically represented to you that while the plane itself had never flown, I had tons of stick-time on several of the exact same ARF with the exact same setup. You basically said that you knew I was a good pilot and you had no reservations at all... but that you had to be conscientious about the rules. Instead of making me wait until the end-of-day, you went and talked to the guys on the flight-line and then basically suspended flying and put the event on hold to give me the sky to myself to do my maiden. As a CD myself, I knew you had the prerogative to do that (though I would never have asked for a concession like that at a huge event), but I was so pleasantly surprised when you walked over and told me that you were shutting down the event for 10 minutes for me.
I thought, "What a class act. The Generous General."
My buddies were warming up the gong for me, but I think I disappointed them with a 10-out-of-10 landing
Thanks for KYJ and everything else you do for RC jets.
07-13-2013, 09:36 AM
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RE: FEJ Announcement
Nice reading
And I think what FEJ does in this thread is correct. However, they did know the following, but the statement was a correct thing to do.
Also for not being the one that had to se another guy starts it first.
And I think what FEJ does in this thread is correct. However, they did know the following, but the statement was a correct thing to do.
Also for not being the one that had to se another guy starts it first.
