IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
#26
RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
AFV432 ......
Those reference sites are terrific. The incredible accuracy and perfection of the details and parts is amazing. [X(]
If that skill level is a 10, then my skill level is a 1, maybe a 2 - on a good day. [&o]
Those reference sites are terrific. The incredible accuracy and perfection of the details and parts is amazing. [X(]
If that skill level is a 10, then my skill level is a 1, maybe a 2 - on a good day. [&o]
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
yes very beautiful conversions , amezing work of those guy's ... very skilled but also using a lathé, i haven't one ...
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
ORIGINAL: Rex Ross
AFV432 ......
Those reference sites are terrific. The incredible accuracy and perfection of the details and parts is amazing. [X(]
If that skill level is a 10, then my skill level is a 1, maybe a 2 - on a good day. [&o]
AFV432 ......
Those reference sites are terrific. The incredible accuracy and perfection of the details and parts is amazing. [X(]
If that skill level is a 10, then my skill level is a 1, maybe a 2 - on a good day. [&o]
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
ORIGINAL: karel47
yes very beautiful conversions , amezing work of those guy's ... very skilled but also using a lathé, i haven't one ...
yes very beautiful conversions , amezing work of those guy's ... very skilled but also using a lathé, i haven't one ...
im sure if you needed help with anything on the m51 nigel would help if you asked
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
very nice proposal AFV432 is always pleasant to have a backup , someone who have knowledge of the subject you want to convert, thank him on my behalf too
much appreciated
much appreciated
#32
RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
ORIGINAL: pattoncommander
...so what's your beef with it ?
...so what's your beef with it ?
No beef... just seeing is believing and not going by your word.
I've seen many pics with it but no wire and certainly not on the front of a tank. I always thought they ingeniously came up with a fast way to get into the tank! You know, a grab handle.
~ Jeff
#33
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
Jeff, here's the "official" written word. I was informed by a veteran of the 188th Barak Bde IDF of the reason for the relocation of the wire rolls to cut down on injuries from the vicious sharp points of the razor wire. With older barbed wire hanging in front over the bow plate was bad enough, but razor wire is totally nasty, even when covered by a tarp. The barbed wire terminology is late 50s-early 60s...now is razor wire.
Having spent over 25 years in armor and over 20 years working with military museums, I am not prone to simply putting out information on tanks that has not been authenticated. Hope these evidential documents, albeit from Dr Robert Manasherob's Lioness & Lion of The Line publication will suffice.
edited to remove names for IDF security.
Having spent over 25 years in armor and over 20 years working with military museums, I am not prone to simply putting out information on tanks that has not been authenticated. Hope these evidential documents, albeit from Dr Robert Manasherob's Lioness & Lion of The Line publication will suffice.
edited to remove names for IDF security.
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
ORIGINAL: karel47
very nice proposal AFV432 is always pleasant to have a backup , someone who have knowledge of the subject you want to convert, thank him on my behalf too
much appreciated
very nice proposal AFV432 is always pleasant to have a backup , someone who have knowledge of the subject you want to convert, thank him on my behalf too
much appreciated
#38
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
Karel,
looking over the nice photos you posted of M-50s....one of the first of an M-50 being guided around a wreck...shows a roll of razor wire hanging from that hook on the bow....it is covered by a heavy tarp, but you can see the hazard in being right at where the driver and bow gunner have to get in/out. One of the very few I have seen of either the M-50 or 51 with wire stowed in that position.,
Bill
looking over the nice photos you posted of M-50s....one of the first of an M-50 being guided around a wreck...shows a roll of razor wire hanging from that hook on the bow....it is covered by a heavy tarp, but you can see the hazard in being right at where the driver and bow gunner have to get in/out. One of the very few I have seen of either the M-50 or 51 with wire stowed in that position.,
Bill
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
This thread is so instructive, since I know there are still (blind?) people here in Italy believing that the Tamiya 'supersherman' really existed, without a clue about what they are talking about... I hope they will read this (but I doubt),,,
#40
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
It's a real shame that Tamiya put out such an inaccurate mess. Not only did they invent a tank to boost sales but to add a moniker which was never used in Israel but because it appealed to them and the thought that it would boost sales, further damaged the Tamiya reputation regarding accuracy. The greater majority of models I have used for museum work have been Tamiya, and it was a real shock to see such a reputable company sink so low and concern themselves with sales over accuracy. The M-50 & 51 were known as Isherman =Israeli Sherman and only Super Sherman known in Israel was the M-1 = M-4A1 76mm with either VVSS or HVSS. At least there are now a few sources to show the difference and what mods to do so that those interested in historic accuracy can have a a correct M-51. Lately there have been some posts with very nice looking M-51s, so it appears modelers are interested and learning the differences.
#41
RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
Bill, I agree of course.
What makes me angry about all this, is the fact that Tamiya represented correctly the turret and spare links with their holders. Then the difference between the real matter, a M51 with welded upper hull, and the "thing" they offered, was only few parts. The engine deck, the stowage boxes and the travel lock. Probably other small sprue in the kit.
What makes me angry about all this, is the fact that Tamiya represented correctly the turret and spare links with their holders. Then the difference between the real matter, a M51 with welded upper hull, and the "thing" they offered, was only few parts. The engine deck, the stowage boxes and the travel lock. Probably other small sprue in the kit.
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
that's right ... this was not smart from tamiya but still its a beautiful piece of artwork even with the faults onto it ... i also saw a few isherman riding on you tube, the sound of their engine is quite different from the tamiya digital shermanmotor ... also a missed chance
their is so much to learn from a particular model, thanks for sharing guy's much appriciated
their is so much to learn from a particular model, thanks for sharing guy's much appriciated
#43
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RE: IDF Sherman 1/16 Tamiya FO M51
Hi Mario...yeah, the nice turret as Tamiya has it works very well for an A1 hull as is but only a very few ititial M-51s were made from the 105mm model which required extensive mods to the turret including a large box for the mantlet, similar to some of the M-50s. Those moldels suffered from restricted gun elevation/depression and working space, so the T-23 was used for most mods for the HV 105mm gun. The Tammy turret can work very well for an M-50 by simply replacing the gun.
Agreed, Tamiya's total disregard for accurate details is frustrating....failure to remove the gun travel lock mount hinges from the bow and absolute disregard for the huge travel lock on the rear, spare track location and sponson boxes is bad. The issue of the engine deck is debatable, depending on what era the M-51 is to represent. By 1973, most all M-50-51s had the Cummins diesel, but a couple reserve units still had them with the old radial engine, so the back deck is OK for those hundred or so tanks, when you mark and designate the tank as one from a particular unit. Somehow, the M-51 looks so much better with the deck modified for the diesel, but only the later models as of 1971-72 had the external rear deck exhaust installed...and there were differences between the A-1 and A3 back decks.
As you have seen yourself, IDF armor history is a difficult and confusing subject and veterans from 7th Brigade units in the Golan Hts may well have served on tanks with totally different mods than those in the 27th reserve or 14th Brigade in the Sinai . Nice thing is, we can build a model and someone else does the same with different mods (within reason) and they are both "kosher". Your last model really looks great.
Agreed, Tamiya's total disregard for accurate details is frustrating....failure to remove the gun travel lock mount hinges from the bow and absolute disregard for the huge travel lock on the rear, spare track location and sponson boxes is bad. The issue of the engine deck is debatable, depending on what era the M-51 is to represent. By 1973, most all M-50-51s had the Cummins diesel, but a couple reserve units still had them with the old radial engine, so the back deck is OK for those hundred or so tanks, when you mark and designate the tank as one from a particular unit. Somehow, the M-51 looks so much better with the deck modified for the diesel, but only the later models as of 1971-72 had the external rear deck exhaust installed...and there were differences between the A-1 and A3 back decks.
As you have seen yourself, IDF armor history is a difficult and confusing subject and veterans from 7th Brigade units in the Golan Hts may well have served on tanks with totally different mods than those in the 27th reserve or 14th Brigade in the Sinai . Nice thing is, we can build a model and someone else does the same with different mods (within reason) and they are both "kosher". Your last model really looks great.