FMBB

Hi Tmac,

quite interesting, the wing panels normally are close to one Kg each so your model is round about 21Kg with a 2 cyl. engine. That's ok taking into account what you have installed. If you add the difference to a 5 cyl Moki you will come out in between 23 to 24 kg which is in the average range.

Peter

WacoNut

tmac,
She will fly really good at that weight. Mine is well over 24kg all up weight. With that 150 up front she will pull thru some big loops without any issues.
Later!!
Anthony

hopkimf

My Feedback: (56)

Tmac,

Added a couple sketches of what I put in words the other day .Still a little concerned over stiff legged version. First picture shows an assumed wheel load in black, a wire load in red, and a gear leg in green. Magnitude and direction of wheel load known. Direction of wire load known. Extend both to an intersection. Then draw green line for axle leg load from pivot point through intersection of other loads (line of action for axle load must go through intersection of other two, or there would be moments and it would not be stable). It''s now defined. Above right side is a graphical solution. Put vectors in tip to tail and scale off results. Simple and quick.

Second photo shows wire force lines of action plus spring line of action. Combine them per upper right for results.

One could argue putting in pinned ends yields the wrong result. Agree, but this is a close approximation. It's true the real axle leg resists bending somewhat, and the spring pin is in a hole and could bear against the side changing results. But this is a pretty simple ballpark check.

Regards,

Mike Hopkins

Waco Brotherhood # 132.

tmac48

Nut, It would be good at that weight, but I'm not too concerned over the weight issue, it is what it is, however I do think once it is all together with the wings painted it will be closer to 25 kgs but there is plenty of wing area to handle it.


hopkimf it is all double dutch to me will be very interesting to see how your model handles the landings compared to mine, looking forward to that day.


Peter would you be able to set your model at the correct attitude ( top wing at minus 2 deg ) and then measure the center section at the center to give a reading at that point? Peter one point about the Alloy that you can consider is that it does take a lot less weight in paint than all that dope undercoat and paint it takes to obtain the same finish on the fabric.



Another shot with the fuel lines and front screen almost finished.




tmac

WacoDream

Beautiful build TMac!  It all has come out so nice. Really great work.  Your Waco shines

DinoR

Peter...WACO has landed !

Arrived here on Wednesday but I was interstate until last night ( Friday) so started unpacking as soon as I got home..all safe and sound.

But man..you must read a lot of Newspapers mate

tmac48

and now let the fun begin.
tmac

DinoR

Hi Terry

Yeah..just remember ..its all your fault

Build won't start till the New Year as the whole rear of the house that you can see in the photos is getting demolished. Somehow in the plans a new 'man cave' has made an appearance in the planning stage as well...designed around a certain plane

Peter, compliments on the build quality, I have a friend who just visited, he has built literally dozens of fibreglass bodied Kingfisher seaplanes in his modelling business...his comments on your fibreglass parts was ' these have the mark of someone that cares about what he builds and sells '..he pointed out a number of your techniques and attention to detail...I think the word obsessed was mentioned a few times but in a very positive way. If anyone is interested I can post some more pictures of Peters part packs and componentry...honestly the more you look the more impressed you become.

Dino

Errol Levin

Tmac

With all those wires going up to the top wing, are you putting navigation lights in the top wing?

If you go to the site below, they make scale lights exactly like the full scale.

Got some for myself.

http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vend...&c=2033&p=2033

Regards

Errol #204

tmac48

Errol, it is a little late in the build for me to do the lighting in the top wings, sure wish I had known about that site before now. It looks as if I should sell this model and start on another one ( only kidding ) Have you some pics of your build?
Photo of my landing lights.

Regards tmac.

Errol Levin

tmac

What are all the wires going to your top wing for?

Also you don't have to electrify the lights if you install them. I am deliberating weather to electrify them or just have them as dummies because to electrify them involves a lot of intricate work dealing with tiny 3mm LED's, relays etc.

Also to get the power to my top wing presents a bit of a problem with regards to the diameter of the fuel tubes. My plane is quarter scale so the tube diameter will be very small. The only way will be to have the positive wire up one tube and the negative wire up the other with the electronics in one of the wings. Been driving myself mad trying to work out how to do this. Even thought about separate battery receiver etc. in one of the top wings.

Suggestions would be welcome from all the brothers.

My landing lights will be working lights.

Errol. #204

tmac48

Errol, the only tubes that I have going to the top centre section is the fuel lines (3/16 th ) with the servo wires in them for the servos that operate the ailerons on the top wings. You could definitely run your lighting wires through 1/8 tubing (2 wires per side ) and use an ignition safety cut off swich to do the on/off, they just plug straight into your receiver. you do not have to use LEDs and relays KIS and use the lowest voltage old fashioned torch globes and disposable batteries that you can find. Don't forget PHOTOS PHOTOS PHOTOS.
Regards tmac

FMBB

Hi Mike,

I do no understand your concern. If you add pivot points to the upper "corners" of the landing gear and at the lower attachment points of the center struts no moments will be counteracted respectively the loads counteracted by the "bending" solution will have to be counteracted by the main legs and the center struts thus transferring the loads to the center spring. This spring has now to transfer all the loads to the structure. In the bending version without any pivoting points you have moments (at both "pivoting" points) which help to reduce the load to the center spring. In case you may install the capability for pivoting the center spring has to be reinforced significantly.

Does this be of any help?

Peter

FMBB

Hi Tmac,

wing panels are less than 1kg normally lower wings with servos and landing lights should be 0,95kg and upper wings round about 0,8kg. I will measure the AoA on my Waco at the center wing current design. My current Waco has Anti collision lights and a beacon. Voltage supply is by the rigging wires which works fine. It was a big issue to have all that wires installed. I have two pumps one for smoke and the second for fuel supply of the radial, two electronic switches one for the landing light on for the fuel pump. Five batteries one for the ignition system, one for the ACLs, beacon and smoke pump, one for the fuel pump and two for the two receiver. The biggest challenge is to get all these servo and beacon, ACL wires as far as possible away from each other and away from the antennas. Lots of work but now I am close to finish the wiring only elevator servos below the stab have to be connected to the system and than testing can be started. Hope every thing works fine.

Peter

FMBB

Hi Dino,

thanks for the compliments, enjoy building. Good to hear that all arrived in good shape - long journey form Europe to Australia. The news paper we are using to pad the kits is our daily newspaper. You cannot read all you have to have a brief overview and to prioritize, but it still takes time to read the articles I am interested in.

Peter
Waco Brother #170

hopkimf

My Feedback: (56)

Peter,

No concern for design as is. When I referred to 'stiff legged' design, I was meaning one with no spring in center. Put pins in corners to get a simple graphical picture of forces and directions. Academic exercise only.

Regards,

Mike Hopkins

Waco Brotherhood # 132

FMBB

Hi Mike,

ok understood, would work with pins in corners as said but spring in the center would have to be reinforced significantly may be also counter act structure in the fuselage.

Peter

mogman

That wouldn't be Tim Nolan would it? If so, I met him years ago at the float fly at Shuswap Lake, here in B.C. I had the yellow 1/2 scale Spacewalker on floats.

Cheers,
Dave.

DinoR

Hi Mogman

Yep sure is Tim...he is actually heading back to the Shuswap float fly in a few weeks time ! ..I was thinking about it but decided to buy a certain plane instead

FMBB

Hi Tmac,

the AoA difference of the outer wing panels to the inner is round about 1 degrees. So if the upper outer panels are set on minus 2 the center section should be minus 1 degrees.

Peter

Errol Levin

Hi Peter

Can you explain the "voltage supply is by the rigging wires". Do you mean that the rigging wires are actually carrying current.

Regards

Errol. #204

Errol Levin

Tmac

I think 1/8 tubing would be too thick for 1/4 scale. Do you know what the diameter of the full size fuel lines is?

Regards

Errol. # 204

FMBB

Hi Errol,

yes Sir, rigging wires are carrying current.

Peter

tmac48

NO, I have no idea ,infact I have asked that question myself but no luck. I can say that 3/16 looks ok on 1/3 model and I needed that size to run the wires anyway, so I would think 1/8 would not look out of place on 1/4 model, at the end of the day it is your call and sometimes we just have to compromise on things.
tmac.

DinoR

Like some others I have been inspired by TMACs use of Aluminium for his panels and will be trying to follow suit eventually. I was reading the EAAs Experimenter magazine and came across this small point below re marking aluminium...most of you may already know this but it was news to me...

Use a Sharpie Marker on Aluminum Planes
Don’t use a pencil!
By Gary Baker

If you have worked on an aluminum airplane, you have probably heard that you should not use a pencil to mark the aluminum parts. That’s because the carbon graphite will get into the crevices inherent in the aluminum surface.The combination of carbon and aluminum in contact
with one another will set up galvanic corrosion that will not become evident for some time, but it will become evident. The corrosion can only be stopped by removing a few thousandths of aluminum.Van’s Aircraft and other kit manufacturers recommend that a Sharpie be used on aluminum parts instead of a pencil. The Sharpie can be removed with lacquer thinner or enamel cleaner prior to priming or painting, and it will not damage
the material. Lines on aluminum marked by a Sharpie can also be left on the material before priming, if they are needed for reference and the material will not be painted later. If the material will be painted, the Sharpie lines need to be removed first. The lines will show through the primer and paint!
Here is an illustration of Sharpie bleed-through. The lines were drawn on the forward side of the vertical stabilizer spar of my RV-6 after priming. This area of the spar lies against the fuselage bulkhead and will not be seen, so I did not bother to clean off the lines. The lines are bleeding
through fi ve coats of primer and white paint. So, make sure to clean off those Sharpie pen marks, if you don’t want them to be seen!