Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
07-14-2013, 09:15 AM
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Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
Hello all. I just have to warn fellow modelers before you spend your hard earned dollars with Troy Built Models or ESM. This isn't a "Sore loser" story. I just wish I had come across some type of review of Troy Built Models and ESM before I spent a large amount of money with them.
I purchased a 95" B-25 Mitchell by ESM. Troy Built is their U.S. distributor and shipped it out to me.
I began building it and found the left wing spar pocket was assembled incorrectly at the China factory. I contacted Troy Built in an attempt to get a replacement. I was talked to like a complete idiot by TBM's customer service person. I was told later he is no longer in their employment.
I tried several time to get them to resolve the matter. They admitted there was a problem with them but they weren't going to do anything. No replacement part nor any type of refund.
I contacted ESM directly in China and the owner agreed there was a problem and would have TBM send out another right away. Mr. Herlin He copied me on the email he sent TBM and they agreed to send a replacement wing. After a couple of weeks I still had not received anything from TBM. I contacted them again. The customer service rep informed me they were not going to send me anything.
I contacted the owner of ESM again. He informed me he would build another complete wing and ship it in the next container to TBM and they would ship it to me. After several months of waiting on the container, Mr. Herlin He contacted me and informed me TBM had the container with my wing. I contacted TBM and they assured me they had the wing sitting on their table, labeled and would be shipping it to me that day. A couple of more weeks went by and still no wing.
I contacted TBM again and a gentleman in their shipping department informed me they had him re-label my wing because they were selling it to someone else. How low down is that?
I contacted ESM again. Mr. He informed me if I would pay the shipping from China he would ship me another wing and bypass TBM altogether. I sent him a payment for the shipping and a box finally arrived. It only had some of the parts but not the engine nacelles where the incorrect spar pockets were in my original. I was upset at how much I had just spent on shipping for the few parts he sent and not even the main part that was defective.
Again I contacted Mr. He at ESM. He emailed TBM and asked if they had a set of nacelles they could ship out. They said they did and he told them to ship them to me. Mr. He forwarded me the emails between himself and TBM.
I emailed TBM again and they told me the nacelles were going out that day. I still have yet to receive them after a month. TBM and ESM have both stopped responding to emails and calls about this.
This situation has gone on for almost one year now and I am sitting here with a plane I cannot assemble or fly. I spent a large amount of money on this since I also purchased the air retract system, a pair of DLE engines and all of the other accessories needed to complete the plane.
Think twice before making any purchase from Troy Built Models or anything from the ESM line of airplanes. I have been lied to, pushed aside, made to pay shipping for items I still have not received and talked to with a complete lack of respect.
I only wish I had researched TBM a little better before I spent any money on the products they sell. I later found a number of other posts about mis-dealings with them.
If anyone doubts a word of this, I will gladly post a copy of the emails and correspondence between ESM, Troy Built Models and myself. You can see for yourself what type of business TBM is.
I purchased a 95" B-25 Mitchell by ESM. Troy Built is their U.S. distributor and shipped it out to me.
I began building it and found the left wing spar pocket was assembled incorrectly at the China factory. I contacted Troy Built in an attempt to get a replacement. I was talked to like a complete idiot by TBM's customer service person. I was told later he is no longer in their employment.
I tried several time to get them to resolve the matter. They admitted there was a problem with them but they weren't going to do anything. No replacement part nor any type of refund.
I contacted ESM directly in China and the owner agreed there was a problem and would have TBM send out another right away. Mr. Herlin He copied me on the email he sent TBM and they agreed to send a replacement wing. After a couple of weeks I still had not received anything from TBM. I contacted them again. The customer service rep informed me they were not going to send me anything.
I contacted the owner of ESM again. He informed me he would build another complete wing and ship it in the next container to TBM and they would ship it to me. After several months of waiting on the container, Mr. Herlin He contacted me and informed me TBM had the container with my wing. I contacted TBM and they assured me they had the wing sitting on their table, labeled and would be shipping it to me that day. A couple of more weeks went by and still no wing.
I contacted TBM again and a gentleman in their shipping department informed me they had him re-label my wing because they were selling it to someone else. How low down is that?
I contacted ESM again. Mr. He informed me if I would pay the shipping from China he would ship me another wing and bypass TBM altogether. I sent him a payment for the shipping and a box finally arrived. It only had some of the parts but not the engine nacelles where the incorrect spar pockets were in my original. I was upset at how much I had just spent on shipping for the few parts he sent and not even the main part that was defective.
Again I contacted Mr. He at ESM. He emailed TBM and asked if they had a set of nacelles they could ship out. They said they did and he told them to ship them to me. Mr. He forwarded me the emails between himself and TBM.
I emailed TBM again and they told me the nacelles were going out that day. I still have yet to receive them after a month. TBM and ESM have both stopped responding to emails and calls about this.
This situation has gone on for almost one year now and I am sitting here with a plane I cannot assemble or fly. I spent a large amount of money on this since I also purchased the air retract system, a pair of DLE engines and all of the other accessories needed to complete the plane.
Think twice before making any purchase from Troy Built Models or anything from the ESM line of airplanes. I have been lied to, pushed aside, made to pay shipping for items I still have not received and talked to with a complete lack of respect.
I only wish I had researched TBM a little better before I spent any money on the products they sell. I later found a number of other posts about mis-dealings with them.
If anyone doubts a word of this, I will gladly post a copy of the emails and correspondence between ESM, Troy Built Models and myself. You can see for yourself what type of business TBM is.
07-14-2013, 10:47 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
It is good you have all the email communications, as documentation is gold, if you decide to move through legal channels.
Contact the Better Business Bureau at the Troy Built location to open a complaint and follow through with them. If they happen to be a BBB that isn't a business shill (and many are), they will investigate.
Simultaneously contact the credit card company. Although long past a claims period it documents an awareness in their merchant account.
Also contact your local District Attorney's office to learn the process for filing a fraud claim. Then follow through if the BBB does little or nothing.
Troy Built Models has a pretty good track record on these forums so you may just be dealing with a few jerks within the organization. Nothing wakes up a legitimate organization to sloppiness in the ranks than a demand letter from the BBB or DA's office. It works.
Good luck.
Contact the Better Business Bureau at the Troy Built location to open a complaint and follow through with them. If they happen to be a BBB that isn't a business shill (and many are), they will investigate.
Simultaneously contact the credit card company. Although long past a claims period it documents an awareness in their merchant account.
Also contact your local District Attorney's office to learn the process for filing a fraud claim. Then follow through if the BBB does little or nothing.
Troy Built Models has a pretty good track record on these forums so you may just be dealing with a few jerks within the organization. Nothing wakes up a legitimate organization to sloppiness in the ranks than a demand letter from the BBB or DA's office. It works.
Good luck.
07-14-2013, 02:38 PM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
ORIGINAL: Dick T.
Troy Built Models has a pretty good track record on these forums ...
Troy Built Models has a pretty good track record on these forums ...
Okay. That expert azzhole cost TBM a customer. I've been sitting on that model, a beautiful Pilot kit, for a couple of years, rather than hack it up trying to figure out a way to get an OS 1.60 on it. I think it will set up nicely with the correct electric package, as I'm getting into that now and learning more every day.
Perhaps that guy was having a bad day, or he was canned because of poor customer service, etc. Doesn't matter to me, because I'll never know. I'm a firm believer in the "Hose me once, shame on you. Hose me twice, shame on me. " principle. There are too many other vendors out there genuinely interested in keeping me as a customer to put up up with that sort of nonsense.
.
07-14-2013, 04:34 PM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
I'm not a big fan of suing people in our sport. I am a fan of letting my money speak for me. I won't be bothering TBM with my pesky orders anymore.
LSP, Sounds like you spoke to the same person I did. He sounded like a young kid and began telling me what an expert he was. Later I found out who he was. I've got epoxy older than he is. Lol
LSP, Sounds like you spoke to the same person I did. He sounded like a young kid and began telling me what an expert he was. Later I found out who he was. I've got epoxy older than he is. Lol
07-14-2013, 09:11 PM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
Ooops. I posted this in several forums and the moderators let me know that it was against RCU rules. There were several replies I wanted to reply to but they deleted the posts before I could. Some fellow modelers are having the same problem I am with TBM as well. I was hoping we could get together and let TBM know their bad customer service and shady business deals were costing them customers.
07-15-2013, 04:27 AM
#8
RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
No experience with TBM but I am wary of buying from places if forewarned about them by enough guys with what I deem to be legitimate complaints. Thank you for sharing. I vote with my money too so TBM will not be on my short list for purchases. They join another company that I had high regards for but no more...AW.
07-15-2013, 04:31 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
This is very surprising and disconcerting to hear. I've had good experiences with TBM in the past. Hopefully that's not changing for the worse.
07-15-2013, 04:57 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
It seems to be the way things are with them now. I have heard from quite a few people who say they have had good experiences in the past but now they are having the same issues I am having now. It seems TBM may have outgrown their customers. A sure sign a company has forgotten who makes them what they are.
07-15-2013, 06:49 AM
#11
RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
ORIGINAL: Dick T.
Troy Built Models has a pretty good track record on these forums so you may just be dealing with a few jerks within the organization. Nothing wakes up a legitimate organization to sloppiness in the ranks than a demand letter from the BBB or DA's office. It works.
Good luck.
Troy Built Models has a pretty good track record on these forums so you may just be dealing with a few jerks within the organization. Nothing wakes up a legitimate organization to sloppiness in the ranks than a demand letter from the BBB or DA's office. It works.
Good luck.
When Gene was running the place himself, there were few compaints and mostly praise about TBM including my own. Since they hired a "manager", decided to become "the Walmart of the RC hobby world" and got into trying to sell UAV's.... TBM has generated a LOT of complaints on other forums one of which cannot be mentioned here as the RCU servers strip the posts refering to it out of the threads. Most of these complaints sound about identical to the OP's but high shipping fees, products damaged in shipment and not replaced or just flat being ignored seems to be the common issue with most complaints I've seen.
JMHO....
07-15-2013, 07:05 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
It is ongoing right now. I bought the plane about 1 year ago and have been going through this since. Having to wait a month or so for each of the containers to arrive from China and then waiting on the wing set TBM said was being shipped that day. Only to find out they had lied about it being shipped when they actually sold it to someone else to turn a profit from my replacement parts.
Weeks and months add up.
I guess they assume if they put you off long enough you'll just go away and they consider that profitable.
Weeks and months add up.
I guess they assume if they put you off long enough you'll just go away and they consider that profitable.
07-15-2013, 07:13 AM
#13
RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
ORIGINAL: Wart Hog
Hello all. I just have to warn fellow modelers before you spend your hard earned dollars with Troy Built Models or ESM. This isn't a ''Sore loser'' story. I just wish I had come across some type of review of Troy Built Models and ESM before I spent a large amount of money with them.
I purchased a 95'' B-25 Mitchell by ESM. Troy Built is their U.S. distributor and shipped it out to me.
I began building it and found the left wing spar pocket was assembled incorrectly at the China factory. I contacted Troy Built in an attempt to get a replacement. I was talked to like a complete idiot by TBM's customer service person. I was told later he is no longer in their employment.
I tried several time to get them to resolve the matter. They admitted there was a problem with them but they weren't going to do anything. No replacement part nor any type of refund.
I contacted ESM directly in China and the owner agreed there was a problem and would have TBM send out another right away. Mr. Herlin He copied me on the email he sent TBM and they agreed to send a replacement wing. After a couple of weeks I still had not received anything from TBM. I contacted them again. The customer service rep informed me they were not going to send me anything.
I contacted the owner of ESM again. He informed me he would build another complete wing and ship it in the next container to TBM and they would ship it to me. After several months of waiting on the container, Mr. Herlin He contacted me and informed me TBM had the container with my wing. I contacted TBM and they assured me they had the wing sitting on their table, labeled and would be shipping it to me that day. A couple of more weeks went by and still no wing.
I contacted TBM again and a gentleman in their shipping department informed me they had him re-label my wing because they were selling it to someone else. How low down is that?
I contacted ESM again. Mr. He informed me if I would pay the shipping from China he would ship me another wing and bypass TBM altogether. I sent him a payment for the shipping and a box finally arrived. It only had some of the parts but not the engine nacelles where the incorrect spar pockets were in my original. I was upset at how much I had just spent on shipping for the few parts he sent and not even the main part that was defective.
Again I contacted Mr. He at ESM. He emailed TBM and asked if they had a set of nacelles they could ship out. They said they did and he told them to ship them to me. Mr. He forwarded me the emails between himself and TBM.
I emailed TBM again and they told me the nacelles were going out that day. I still have yet to receive them after a month. TBM and ESM have both stopped responding to emails and calls about this.
This situation has gone on for almost one year now and I am sitting here with a plane I cannot assemble or fly. I spent a large amount of money on this since I also purchased the air retract system, a pair of DLE engines and all of the other accessories needed to complete the plane.
Think twice before making any purchase from Troy Built Models or anything from the ESM line of airplanes. I have been lied to, pushed aside, made to pay shipping for items I still have not received and talked to with a complete lack of respect.
I only wish I had researched TBM a little better before I spent any money on the products they sell. I later found a number of other posts about mis-dealings with them.
If anyone doubts a word of this, I will gladly post a copy of the emails and correspondence between ESM, Troy Built Models and myself. You can see for yourself what type of business TBM is.
Hello all. I just have to warn fellow modelers before you spend your hard earned dollars with Troy Built Models or ESM. This isn't a ''Sore loser'' story. I just wish I had come across some type of review of Troy Built Models and ESM before I spent a large amount of money with them.
I purchased a 95'' B-25 Mitchell by ESM. Troy Built is their U.S. distributor and shipped it out to me.
I began building it and found the left wing spar pocket was assembled incorrectly at the China factory. I contacted Troy Built in an attempt to get a replacement. I was talked to like a complete idiot by TBM's customer service person. I was told later he is no longer in their employment.
I tried several time to get them to resolve the matter. They admitted there was a problem with them but they weren't going to do anything. No replacement part nor any type of refund.
I contacted ESM directly in China and the owner agreed there was a problem and would have TBM send out another right away. Mr. Herlin He copied me on the email he sent TBM and they agreed to send a replacement wing. After a couple of weeks I still had not received anything from TBM. I contacted them again. The customer service rep informed me they were not going to send me anything.
I contacted the owner of ESM again. He informed me he would build another complete wing and ship it in the next container to TBM and they would ship it to me. After several months of waiting on the container, Mr. Herlin He contacted me and informed me TBM had the container with my wing. I contacted TBM and they assured me they had the wing sitting on their table, labeled and would be shipping it to me that day. A couple of more weeks went by and still no wing.
I contacted TBM again and a gentleman in their shipping department informed me they had him re-label my wing because they were selling it to someone else. How low down is that?
I contacted ESM again. Mr. He informed me if I would pay the shipping from China he would ship me another wing and bypass TBM altogether. I sent him a payment for the shipping and a box finally arrived. It only had some of the parts but not the engine nacelles where the incorrect spar pockets were in my original. I was upset at how much I had just spent on shipping for the few parts he sent and not even the main part that was defective.
Again I contacted Mr. He at ESM. He emailed TBM and asked if they had a set of nacelles they could ship out. They said they did and he told them to ship them to me. Mr. He forwarded me the emails between himself and TBM.
I emailed TBM again and they told me the nacelles were going out that day. I still have yet to receive them after a month. TBM and ESM have both stopped responding to emails and calls about this.
This situation has gone on for almost one year now and I am sitting here with a plane I cannot assemble or fly. I spent a large amount of money on this since I also purchased the air retract system, a pair of DLE engines and all of the other accessories needed to complete the plane.
Think twice before making any purchase from Troy Built Models or anything from the ESM line of airplanes. I have been lied to, pushed aside, made to pay shipping for items I still have not received and talked to with a complete lack of respect.
I only wish I had researched TBM a little better before I spent any money on the products they sell. I later found a number of other posts about mis-dealings with them.
If anyone doubts a word of this, I will gladly post a copy of the emails and correspondence between ESM, Troy Built Models and myself. You can see for yourself what type of business TBM is.
Thanks for this info. I'll never buy from them again.
07-15-2013, 07:23 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
I have nothing but great results from TBM. I purchased a F-7F tigercat with the V2.5 retracts 2 years ago. Well I didnt build the plane yet as I am gathering all the good stuff for it. I really wanted the Seirra gear for it. I called TBM and talked to them about my gear. I found out there is two different TBM locations as I was transfered to another build across town or something. Anyway after talking to them they said they would refund my money for the V2.5 gear or send out the V3 upgrade at no cost. I thought this was very good of them.
I started my conversation in a nice way and built a bit of repore with them. I think this helped.
As with all bad stories on here are we hearing both sides of the story? I have learned that if I call up someone and demand a replacement they will fall back to their policys and I dont get anywhere. If I calmly talk to them and discuss the situation I found they are willing to replace something at no charge.
I will still use TBM. One thing I dont like about TBM though is the movement to the foam electric stuff. there is such a large mark up on the foam electric stuff with huge profits I can see why they would switch but TBM and chief are the main suppliers of the larger gas engines and planes, now electric stuff.
I started my conversation in a nice way and built a bit of repore with them. I think this helped.
As with all bad stories on here are we hearing both sides of the story? I have learned that if I call up someone and demand a replacement they will fall back to their policys and I dont get anywhere. If I calmly talk to them and discuss the situation I found they are willing to replace something at no charge.
I will still use TBM. One thing I dont like about TBM though is the movement to the foam electric stuff. there is such a large mark up on the foam electric stuff with huge profits I can see why they would switch but TBM and chief are the main suppliers of the larger gas engines and planes, now electric stuff.
07-15-2013, 07:28 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
Airplanes 400- From what I understand, this has become a recent business practice of theirs. I hope they return to the company everyone says they used to be. Maybe one day they will realize what mistakes they have made and try to regain the respect of members of our sport back.
07-15-2013, 07:36 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
Airraptor- Like you, I am a firm believer in "You catch more flies with honey". I was very respectful and friendly at first. As thing progressed and they conducted themselves like they did, I began to get a little more forceful in my communication. Frustration from email after email, call after call and none of the boxes that were being "Shipped out today" ever arrived.
I really hope someone from TBM does check in here and give their side. I am curious how they would justify it considering Mr. He at ESM was kind enough to forward me his emails from his communication with TBM as well.
I really hope someone from TBM does check in here and give their side. I am curious how they would justify it considering Mr. He at ESM was kind enough to forward me his emails from his communication with TBM as well.
07-15-2013, 07:41 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
It's simply unbelievable to me that companies out there will sell something obviously defective and then not take care of it. I can sort of understand a company having an issue with something you built possibly incorrectly and claim it's a defect but in cases where you can show the defective product is how it came from the factory there should be no discussion. They should apologize profusely and send out a replacement immediately.
I don't have a year's worth of patience. For me about three weeks is tops and then I'm stepping up to the next level.
I don't have a year's worth of patience. For me about three weeks is tops and then I'm stepping up to the next level.
07-15-2013, 08:14 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
I found a thread here on RCU after all of this began where numerous owners of this plane had the issue of the nacelle spar pockets and wings were defective from the factory. It took them quite a while to get replacements, but they did eventually get them. Some people gave up and began modifying their planes themselves so they could finish building and fly them.
Looks like if I am going to keep this plane I'll have to do the same.
Looks like if I am going to keep this plane I'll have to do the same.
07-15-2013, 08:44 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
Lifer- It appears not. I can't say whether this is a new build or old stock, but it does have a problem. I am assuming ESM has corrected it in the new kits, yet I still have one sitting on my bench.
I noticed something yesterday. I do find it very disturbing that in the July edition of Model Aviation TBM says in their ad "In Europe or South America? Take advantage of the weak dollar!" hmmm.
It is in the lower left corner of their ad on page 94.
Talk about kicking a country when they are down. I know TBM is trying to run a profitable business, but to say that in an international magazine..........
I noticed something yesterday. I do find it very disturbing that in the July edition of Model Aviation TBM says in their ad "In Europe or South America? Take advantage of the weak dollar!" hmmm.
It is in the lower left corner of their ad on page 94.
Talk about kicking a country when they are down. I know TBM is trying to run a profitable business, but to say that in an international magazine..........
07-15-2013, 09:12 AM
#21
RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
ORIGINAL: CafeenMan
It's simply unbelievable to me that companies out there will sell something obviously defective and then not take care of it. I can sort of understand a company having an issue with something you built possibly incorrectly and claim it's a defect but in cases where you can show the defective product is how it came from the factory there should be no discussion. They should apologize profusely and send out a replacement immediately.
I don't have a year's worth of patience. For me about three weeks is tops and then I'm stepping up to the next level.
It's simply unbelievable to me that companies out there will sell something obviously defective and then not take care of it. I can sort of understand a company having an issue with something you built possibly incorrectly and claim it's a defect but in cases where you can show the defective product is how it came from the factory there should be no discussion. They should apologize profusely and send out a replacement immediately.
I don't have a year's worth of patience. For me about three weeks is tops and then I'm stepping up to the next level.
[:'(]
07-15-2013, 09:26 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
There are 2 things I've learned being in this hobby for 41 years. The first is you don't buy anything when it first comes out. You let it run at least a year before you buy and look for feedback. The 2nd thing is you do not buy from anyone that isn't local. This way when you have a problem like you are having you can go grab them around the throat. Even then there are no guarantees. It amazes me how many posts on RCU revolve around people getting ripped off for in some cases thousands of dollars. It's worth it to spend a couple of dollars more and get it from your local hobby shop.
07-15-2013, 09:34 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
I had a similar problem with my DV8R landing gear from TBM. $600 for the gear and ended up fixing them myself but still not happy with them.
Mike
Mike
07-15-2013, 09:40 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
I know what you mean about buying local. We used to own a hobby shop years ago. There are some things you just cant get, even if you own a shop.
I cant understand why companies these days value their wallet more than they do their customers. If you take care of your customer, the money will be there. Mostly by word of mouth.
I cant understand why companies these days value their wallet more than they do their customers. If you take care of your customer, the money will be there. Mostly by word of mouth.
07-15-2013, 09:57 AM
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RE: Before you buy from Troy Built Models read this
I had a similar issue with TBM over some spinners and props. They, for whatever reason, just don't care. And therefore I don't care for them. There is nothing on their site that can not be bought else where. As with the OP and many, many , many of others in our dealing's with TBM can say with experience TBM SUCKS! PERIOD!!