AndyKunz

Yup, they are, except the 100:1 I'm talking about JR 9303's, 9503's, 11X's, 12X's (lots of those), DX7's, DX7s's, DX8's, and DX18's. I don't recall seeing any DX5e's or DX6i's at the field recently. My one son has a DX6i but he doesn't fly it there much.

Andy

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Andy flys at the field where all the Horizon employees fly, if someone shows up with an orange shirt there they had better be going deer hunting


In all seriousness though, I go to a lot of events and fly at several fields. As a product reviewer I ditched any brand loyalty years ago and my observations are thus...

1. There's as many or DSM(whatever) stuff out there than any of the other brands combined in use at local fields and events. About the only type of event I see different ratios are glider events where lots of guys like Airtronics.

2. As someone that owns several different brands I can say that there is one common denominator. They all seem to work.
When they fail, it doens't seem to be brand specific (more often its the users than the radio in any case)

ncsky

HOUNDDOG Ihave got to ask this of you.

Not trying to provoke you, but Ihave to ask this of you.

Icome on the forums on a regular basis and I notice that you frequently comment in threads that have anything to do with Spektrum. All of your post are "bashing" their products etc...

I understand that you may be loyal to another brand , but I'm having a hard time understanding all of this?

I'm a beginner, Iuse a spektrum (which works great for me), the field Igo to almost everyone uses JR/Spektrum, and to answer before you ask, these are not foamies, there are giant scale planes of all types, which cost 1k plus.

Ihad looked at alot of radios when I bought mine, the Spektrum was just a better fit (price, help at the field, bind and fly options, etc...), if someone else has another brand radio or plane etc... Ithink it is fine. All the brands are good, if someone is happy with their brand then GREAT!

Please help me to understand why all the bashing of Spektrum?

It takes alot of time to post, and read the forums. Instead of all the negative posting wouldn't the time be better spent flying or building?

Just some questions/thoughts.

Have a good day!

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Well NCSKY: First if U have read my Spectrum comments they only pertain to the 5'6'and 7 models Using DSM2. As I've explained that Spectrum DSM2
1.) uses only 2 of the 80 Available channels
2.) It's Old Tech ... Hopping is in.
3.) I have quit counting but between Dec 1st 2011 and feb 7th 2012
i witnessed 13 of these Spectrum radio/Receivers crash planes by
loss of Complete control. One was a JR 9303 using a spectrum moduel and a 6000 series Reciever. That plane had flowen flawlesly for 5 years. It ended up in the parking lot 3 feet from the cars, at full bore, and never went into fail safe like it was programed. Ever hear a Cub wistle because it was going so fast? This one did.
4.) One of the 13 "Dive in the Dirt" episodes happened to me and one to another instructor. Both planes belonged to the same student. OH by the way that student said he could fly by him self didn't need no stink'n help no more. ... Well From march 15 to april 12 he killed another 8 planes and 3 he said "just crashed with no control and no reason."
I belong to 5 clubs 3 in wisconsin and 2 in Arizona and it's the same all over. I can go on and on about unexplained crashes but what's the use. People will beleave what they want to beleave. As for brand Loyalty I have about 8 futaba radios, 2 Airtronics, and curently using Two HiTec
Aroura 9s. I don't care just so long as it works. No radio is perfect ... Bought the HiTec Aroura 9 modual for my Futaba 9CAP w/ 2 9 channel RX's 2 years ago, wanted to play with Telemetry so I came accros 2 used Arouras on RCU One for $250 Shipped no RX, the other $170 w' a 6 channle XPS RX and Modual and a 9 channel modual. Bought them because they were a good deal at the time. Might have gone with the Spectrum 8X if it were available then ... Who knows.
Just a thought ... Everyone likes to think they got the best stuff for the money. It's brand Loyalty when U have to convince everyone else it's the best, so U can feel good about your purchase. That's just Life. Wvery budy is pretty much that way ... Guess that's makes us Human.

Now how the hell do I spell check this damn thing?

AndyKunz

We don't sell DSM2 transmitters any more other than modules, and the only DSM2 stuff we still make are the ultra-micro receivers.

Sounds like the common link in episode 4 is the person who refuses help. Any chance he might have poor installations as well? When there's a consistent problem with one person (8 planes in a month) and there are tens of thousands of very successful people using the same equipment, why do you suspect the equipment before the individual?

I have a 5-year-old DX7 with DSM2 on it that has never given me a single problem. The biggest problem I had was me - I would put it on the ground and push it to turn it on, and the bind button would get pushed by the ground. My bad!

Andy

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Hopefully the DSM2 junk will take care of it's self ...

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

DSM2 still works fine in NY. Move here!!

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Don't Fly DSM anything so who cares ... anyway it's 6 month of flying here and 6 months flying in AZ... The best of all worlds .... and that flying is close to 7 days a week ... Retirement is wonderful ... hope ya all make it some day. Sure beats the $hi* outa working for a living. No materwhatya do if ya ain't having fun why do it?

AndyKunz

Exactly why I love my job!!!

Andy

Cub Man

My Feedback: (50)

Andy I along with others would love to have your job!!!!!!

rmh

comments about "unexplained " crashes always amuses me.

It reminds me of what i learned as a professional accident investigator.
1-there is always a cause
2. the cause is often not the claimed cause
3 . people who do not understand the equipment are the most likely to label the cause as "unexplainable.
4. assume nothing till real answer is found
Having used 2.4 since it's release to the public-I have heard tales of woe over n over and in many cases the description points to obvious misuse - tho it is almost alway unintended , it is still improper use or mis use - This was primary cause of 99% of the stuf I worked on which did not involve RC equipment
The other investigators I knew - agreed - the problem could be machinery ,ladders , power equipment - it simply boils down to th same basics..

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Excellent post RMH and inline with my findings

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Why does this happen to Spectrum DSM2 users much more often.
1. Less experiance and buy cheep equipment?
2. Less experiance and don't set it up right.
3. DSM2 is just flawed.
4. Probbly a combination of all this and more.

rmh

Quite frankly we don't see the disasters you comment on.
The Spektrum far out sells other brands here and how it works is shared by users - This does make a difference.
The first 2.4 equipment was instantly accepted in our area and for obvious reasons it was all Spektrum -till others finally developed similar setups
At that point , choices were pretty well established.
other brands are sold here and radio problems are very small amongst all the brands
There have been start up problems with all of em - ALL brands and prices which we have seen but in all cases the mfgrs have worked with the users and honestly we see no real issues with any of the brands in use here .
As for price basic problems we have seen were in even the most expensive stuff - This was early on and the equipment was promptly replaced
Now - no real issues in any of em that isn't user caused

While I am at it
hopping setups are good but NEVER have I seen a radio problem on 2.4 due to the rx being shut out by interferrence.
Can it happen sure - however I have yet to see it . Real problems are setup and power issues.
Poorly done radio setups have been around for 40 years that I know off - there are simply more non tech guys now using more equipment
It can only get worse

chuckk2

The only problems I've had seemed to be due to speed control built in anemic BECs (5v, 2.5-3A rated)
Upping the BECs to external 5.5v and 4-5A stopped (knock on wood!) the problem.
The two speed controls we had problems with were E-Flite units.
I cannot say that the speed controls were defective, only that the instantaneous servo currents exceeded the output capability.

jmac591

I have this same receiver with the appropriate wire and external antenna if you may, I have used it twice and both times I have either lost communication with it or something else is going on....I did make sure the plug in both are secure and still for some reason it loses communication. I no longer trust the receiver and no longer use it. I find it un-reliable, does anyone have the same issues? does anyone know a fix, or setting I am missing? 

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I am sorry you are having problems with your AR8000 but many others are not. I never had an issue with mine. I follow the forums related to the DX8 and AR8000. I have not read about any problems with that particular receiver.

I have been using Spektrum since 2007. When the Flight Logger became available, I connect it to those Spektrum receivers that have a Data port. It is very useful to determine if the Main Rx and the Remotes are being blocked. It tells you the number of Fades on each antenna, the number of Frame Losses, and the number of Holds (Failsafe Events). If you use a Telemetry Module (TM1000 or TM1100) you can send this data to a DX7S, DX8, DX10t, or DX18 transmitter. It will also transmit this data to an STI Module and iPhone, iPod, or iPad.

No other manufacturer's radio has this feature and it will help you resolve these problems.

You have not even begun to detail what you mean by lost communication. It could be a Brownout or a Hold, for example. A Brownout would indicate a power loss to the Rx, either by a weak battery or bad wiring in the aircraft. I just had this happen to me and discovered the first time, it was a bad extension from the Switch Harness to the Rx. The second time, it was an old voltage regulator gone bad. Both times I discovered it on the ground.

Depending upon how your Failsafe Conditions are set on your Rx, when you Bind, you most likely have Throttle going to Idle during a Hold. If you had a Hold, you would hear the Throttle go to Idle.

What transmitter are you using?

I am not doubting that you have a problem, but we need more info in order to find a solution.

Dick T.

My Feedback: (243)

Perhaps if one offered them more than .10 on the dollar there might have been takers. Just because someone finds they do not like a piece of equipment doesn't mean they have to give it away, although I have occasionally done so to get a source of frustration out of my shop.

I've become spoiled with medium to high end Futaba gear that offers unlimited programming, solid receivers and no annoying binding plug. I recently purchased a new Spektrum X7S to drive a few bind'n fly flybarless helis. It does the job well in spite of limited programming and the need to periodically rebind.

I can understand the OP's annoyance over the receiver/satellite issue. Trying to keep up with Spektrum's shifting sands is a challenge.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

The only reason they sell so many of them is it’s the only radio that works and comes with the park flyers BNF system. I hear so many times at the field that BNF should incorporate other brands. If they did I wonder where it would leave Spectrum. I myself own only one just for the few BNF I have.

I have owned and flown Airtronics, Futaba and Hitec. I have set up and flown the Hobby King stuff and a few of the off brand 2.4 conversions none of which gave any trouble. My dedicated BNF according to Spectrum needs constant rebinding. I shut down in the proper sequence and it will work ok for several trips to the flying field then out of the blue the model becomes twitchy and with the micro heli almost uncontrollable. Spectrums answer is just rebind it again. This never happened with any of my other radio systems. Even the $69 Hobby King stuff seems to be more stable.

Dennis

Dick T.

My Feedback: (243)

My dedicated BNF according to Spectrum needs constant rebinding. I shut down in the proper sequence and it will work ok for several trips to the flying field then out of the blue the model becomes twitchy and with the micro heli almost uncontrollable. Spectrums answer is just rebind it again. This never happened with any of my other radio systems. Even the $69 Hobby King stuff seems to be more stable.

Dennis
[/quote]
My experiences exactly with the X7S and BNF, not sure why.

This is not my first trip around the patch with Spektrum gear nor R/C flying in general. Not bashing Spektrum, just find their operational approach a little clunky. If one begins the hobby with Spektrum products (the whole BNF marketing concept) it's mish-mash of binding plugs, battery voltage, satellite receivers, fluid DMS through DMSX protocols that may or may not be compatible, are learned as the norm.

Most hobby shops are full of BNF and Spektrum due to Horizon's aggressive marketing approach toward them. Some of the BNF products are pretty good, others pure crap, but that also fits a lot of R/C products today.

Again, one can appreciate the OP's frustration of finding a new model receiver doesn't work without add ons. The whole process is certainly foreign to someone's experience with other brands that don't require any of this.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

I know I might take some heat for my position but since my radio equipment is my one and only link with my models I don’t buy or use anyone’s used electronics. After all I personally have never had extra anything as far as servos; receivers etc. and if I did there are plenty in my group who would probably buy it. If it appears on Flea Bay I have to wonder if the seller is trying to pass something off he wouldn’t offer to friends and fellow flyers he is acquainted with. I personally don’t understand the mind set of people who put someone else’s cast off, used electronics in their brand new latest and greatest creation.

As far a Flea Bay is concerned I don’t have much use for it as well. To many people I know complain about the same kind of thing. Misleading ads, almost no help from Flea Bay in solving problems and no control over feedback.

AndyKunz

Do you mean DX7S? Or is the X7S some other brand of radio?

DMS? Do you mean DSM? The original park-flyer-only protocol? OK, so that was supplanted a few months later with DSM2 and the original DX7, but the DX7 would still support those original AR6000 receivers. The radios we sell today support ALL receiver we ever built with one exception, the original AR6000.

Or are you comparing the compatibility of Spektrum (DSM and DSM2 compatible, DSM2 and DSMX compatible) to another brand? How do you explain then the three current incompatible protocols of other brands out there? Spektrum at least had the good benefit of the customer in mind by providing overlapping compatibility and continuity for over 5 years. Which other company is doing that? Oh wait, they're just barely having their 5-year anniversary, that's right ...

The "add on" comes in the same box, already attached to the base receiver! It's not an add-on, it's a necessary part of the product.

The fact that it is patented just might have something to do with the fact that other companies are not able to provide the same high level of RF redundancy.

Andy

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

My experiences exactly with the X7S and BNF, not sure why.

This is not my first trip around the patch with Spektrum gear nor R/C flying in general. Not bashing Spektrum, just find their operational approach a little clunky. If one begins the hobby with Spektrum products (the whole BNF marketing concept) it's mish-mash of binding plugs, battery voltage, satellite receivers, fluid DMS through DMSX protocols that may or may not be compatible, are learned as the norm.

Most hobby shops are full of BNF and Spektrum due to Horizon's aggressive marketing approach toward them. Some of the BNF products are pretty good, others pure crap, but that also fits a lot of R/C products today.

Again, one can appreciate the OP's frustration of finding a new model receiver doesn't work without add ons. The whole process is certainly foreign to someone's experience with other brands that don't require any of this.


[/quote]
I don't know where you get the idea that you have to keep ReBinding Spektrum receivers. Once they are Bound, they stay Bound unless you put the transmitter into Bind Mode and power it up. If this is something unique to BNF Park Flyers, then I cannot vouch for that, but no one I know in my club, including myself, has had any Spektrum receivers Lose Bind.

It is not difficult to learn how to position Spektrum Satellite receivers, to achieve better Antenna Diversity. What other 2.4 RC radio manufacturer offers a Flight Log tool to analyze the signal to each antenna and help you determine how to optimize antenna placement?

As Andy explained, the Spektrum protocols and all Forward and Backward compatible so there is no mystery there.

Rob2160

Assuming you have everything connected correctly and have done a proper bind, if you are still having problems you may just have a faulty receiver.

I am using 3 AR8000s, 2 in Helis and 1 in a fixed wing and they perform flawlessly.. In fact the AR8000 bound to a JR11x actually gives the greatest range of. any TX / RX combo I have personally tested.

You are doing the right thing.. If you don't trust it don't use it.. The AR8000 is generally an excellent receiver.

Dick T.

My Feedback: (243)

I had responded last night to your comment in a response to address Andy’s comments in post #72 but it has mysteriously disappeared. It appears one can bash a product here and those posts remain but having a discussion of comparable points between Spektrum and Futaba is a no-no.

Some BNF products seems to be the ones encountering lost binding for unknown reasons. It happens a lot around here and the LHS is pretty versed in all radio brands. I do have a BNF heli with an AR6115e that looses bind periodically. Once rebound it operates fine but will drop out again within ten power cycles. It never does it under power, only during a power cycle. And no, with the bind button on top of the DX7S it is near impossible to inadvertently initiate a bind sequence.

Andy’s question about my term X7S is valid, however the transmitter I mentioned is a new DX7S. My shortcut is part of the issue I mentioned in the deleted post that DSM, DSM2, DSMX can be as confusing to a Futaba guy as FASTest, FASST, FHSS and S-FHSS can be to a Spektrum guy. Likewise to need for binding plugs and satellite receivers which created confusion for the OP.

All manufacturers design equipment to meet their specifications. As long as the end modeler gets reliable equipment for their bucks and are happy, it should matter not to anyone else. However comparing features and operations allows others to make informed decisions about equipment.