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ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

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ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Old 07-09-2013, 05:45 PM
  #251  
SkyPilot101
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

RBean what did you do differently??? The others built here are coming out at 20 - 25 Lbs. Your weight is more to my liking.
Old 07-10-2013, 06:06 AM
  #252  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Skypilot,

This is just a preliminary at 17.4 lbs. I still need to add a battery. A 3,000 mha NiMa is going to be about 6 or 7 oz. Also the air tank valve and servos probably another 6 oz. Plus air lines and ignition switch and wires. Say another pound, so if total comes out to 18.5 lbs I'll be happy. Hopefully the battery will be all the additional nose weight I need. I'm not real sure about the cg. I measured at 115mm at the wing roots. No retractable tail wheel, no full cockpit, no additional paint. No choke servo. I'm using an electronic fish scale. In the past it has been fairly accurate.
Old 07-10-2013, 07:19 AM
  #253  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

If you have the old version of the PTE ignition module, it is very likely that it failed the first time you put any power to it. I went through two that way. Apparently the modules have been redesigning and they sent me an updated version. No problems yet. Hopefully they will send you a new one.
Old 07-10-2013, 07:45 AM
  #254  
Bob Paris
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

RBean,
You may want to contact T.B.M. on your CG location. I was told to set the C.G. at 110mm and start from there. There have been reports of the model being a bit tail heavy at the 117mm C.G. location, as stated in the ESM manual. If your not sure...give T.B.M. a call and I'm sure they will tell you the same thing. I have two 3300ma nickel batteries just behind the fire wall, and two 2000ma batteries up forward of the fire wall, with the ignition module, on two modified steel "L" brackets...and I still had to add over 1 pound of lead to the nose to balance the model. You may want to check this out before you decide to maiden the model. My gross weight came out to just a bit over 20 lbs.

Irocbsa,
I just received a replacement engine a couple of weeks ago, from T.B.M. and as with my first engine, unable to get it to fire or run. I do have an Exl Transmitter operated on/off switching unit installed, and I've yet to remove the unit from the ignition and see if I can get the engine to fire up. I do plan on doing it today latter on.

Soft Landing Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 07-11-2013, 10:30 PM
  #255  
Bob Paris
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Hay Bubba John,
Well today, I managed to make great head way with the model. I removed the RCExl Tx operated-engine on/off unit, from the ignition circuit and fueled up the model. It fired right up and sang, like a home sick angel. After three 10 minute runs, with 15 minutes wait between runs, I managed to get 7,920 rpm with a 19x8 two bladed wood prop. The idle is solid at 1550 RPM and would accelerate to full power with out a hesitation. Its time to maiden the model...and it looks like this Saturday my be the day...if the winds cooperate.

I also installed the scale "Solo" type prop and took some pictures.

Its time to light the fire and see how she flies.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:57 AM
  #256  
irocbsa
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Looking great, let us know how it goes!
Old 07-12-2013, 08:14 AM
  #257  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

All the best on the maiden Bobbie, she is a bute!
Old 07-12-2013, 10:40 AM
  #258  
Bob Paris
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Hay RBean,
Take a look at Post #226 and see what I ended up doing to balance my model. You stated your measuring your C.G. @ 110mm at the wing root. You need to measure your C.G. at the wing break, where the center wing panel meets the outer wing panel-from the leading edge of the wing, aft. At the wing root up against the fuselage, the C.G. will be real close to 130mm. I drew a line between the two points where T.B.M. calls out to do the C.G. check and measured against the fuselage. I actually ran a 1/16" blue colored tape between the two points and left it on the wing. From what I have seen in guys flying the model tail heavy...your going to have your hands full if the C.G. is set at manual notations. I called T.B.M. on this and they stated to use 110mm and move it aft no more then to 113mm, until your real familiar with its flying qualities.

My C.G. machine is the T.F. version...and would not open up far enough to use the manual placement (out board wing attachment) for finding the C.G. on my model. So I had to find the proper C.G. measurement from the leading edge of the wing, against the fuselage.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 07-13-2013, 10:00 PM
  #259  
Bob Paris
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Hi Guys,
Well I managed to get my F6F off the ground for three flights and seven takeoff's and landings. Wow...even though my engine was running rich, she flew with authority. The Hell Cat flies just like may Top Flight P-51D Red Tail (its the .60~.90 size ARF I recovered)...in other words its one sweet flying machine... : ). I was surprised at just how much Right rudder I needed on take off, but my first landing was so sweet and smooth...I was looking way better then I felt. My first flight gave me a couple of glitches, but a good solid flight. My cowl came loose...and rubbed the prop on one side...damaging the prop and slight damage to the cowl. The prop was removed and replaced and the cowl was replaced with larger attachment screws and washers. The cowl is now in the repair station for the fix.

Also the landing gear would not retract on the first flight, so I flew with the landing gear in the down and locked placement. It seems that Sierra retracts use a lot of air volume to work and my air tank is to small. I can only get three cycles of the landing gear before the Robart air down unit kicks in, and refuses to raise the gear. I cycled the landing gear a couple of times before I made the first flight and didn't re-fill the pneumatic tank before I took off.

The second flight I got real high and tried some slow flight and stalls. This is a very predictable flying model and very happy with how it handles. But with a full stall developed...at idle...the model dropped the right and nose down. Adding power cured the issues and was back flying in short order. If I was less then 100 feet and got into a nose high low power stall...I would have most probably had a very hard landing...that's if you could call it a landing. With the landing gear down and landing flaps down...you need to add a bit of power and keep the power on, all during the approach. I only cut power when I was real close to the runway and used my excess speed to smooth out the touch down. All landings were three point and working up to wheel landings.

On my third flight the winds dropped off to almost dead calm. So I fired the Hell Cat up and took off. I no sooner got the model airborne, when the dreaded Kona's kicked in. So I went from calm conditions to a south wind in a heart beat and the wind hit 10~15 kts. The south winds bring in all kinds of turbulence...so I spent the next ten minutes in the air setting up my approach and landing. I did three touch downs and three take offs with my last landing acceptable and no broken props. My first flight landing was by far the best and my last ones...though not as pretty-acceptable. She is one piece and I can't wait to get her in the air again.

I used the book set up for my flight controls...and ended up using less then recommended control throws for my own style of flying. I found you need to keep power on during the landing with the gear down and full flaps...maybe up to 40% power or more, for a steady approach.

Great model folks...and love how it handles in the air.

I set my flaps at 25 deg. and 50 deg's. With 50 deg. flaps...you need gobs of power to keep her up in the air. So I reset my flap switch and now use full up "0" deg., 25 deg. and 35 deg. for my three position flaps. 25 deg. of flaps really stabilize the aircraft and make landing more steady.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:22 PM
  #260  
BubbasanJohn
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Awesome Bobby!   Now we just need to see some video of this beauty flying.   Glad you got all the flights in.   Lol I remember the first time i dropped full flaps.  It's like putting on the emergency brake.  Hahahaha.   Don't fall behind the power curve.  She is a great flying warbird.  It just keeps getting better and better. So will that engine.   Congrats!
Old 07-13-2013, 11:46 PM
  #261  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Firstly...G'day from australia. I have been folowing this thread for a while now and I would just like to say a few things about my hellcat. I bought it through Austars Models, which is the Aussie Importer for ESM. I have just finished building mine today, and what can i say it looks very nice, and considering this is my first model of this size I am very proud of it. As I have been reading through I have noticed alot of you have been getting rather heavy models, well at least in comparison to mine.. Mine came out to be 6kg, which is around the 13 lbs mark I believe. And, that is its final weight. I even have a 30 cc Ryobi Whipper Snipper/weed wacker engine upfront which i converted my self, and I still had to add a fair bit of nose weight (the whipper snipper is no light weight either) I had the whipper snipper on another model and it flew well until i crashed...main cause being the it was a .60 model with a huge. heavy 30cc upfront...but it did fly!!! As soon as I get some 2 stroke oil for the Fuel I should be able to get a flight in
Old 07-14-2013, 06:40 AM
  #262  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Hi!  Welcome offiCially to the thread.  Looking forward to hearing about your maiden flight.  Look out for those pesky joeys on take offs and landings. They can dent your wings up pretty good!  
Old 07-14-2013, 04:52 PM
  #263  
JohnMcGowan
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Congrats and way to go Bobby!!!!
Old 07-14-2013, 06:15 PM
  #264  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?


ORIGINAL: JohnMcGowan

Congrats and way to go Bobby!!!!
+1!!! WTG

Old 07-15-2013, 02:01 AM
  #265  
Bob Paris
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Hay Bubba John,
I'm all most done with my cowl repair and I plan on flying again this coming week. I used a bit of JB weld and strengthened the inside of the cowl where the prop ran the fiberglass a bit thin. It didn't ware through...but about 1/2 through the front part of the cowl. I then made a bit more and added it to the aft part of the cowl ring...it had worked loose on the bottom a little. I mixed up some 15 minute epoxy and milled fiberglass and built up the outside of the cowl, sealing it too. Next I'll paint it and we will be ready to fly. I did a full post flight inspection and found every thing ok, including my pull/pull cables. I looked under the tail wheel cover piece and the wing. After all the work is done, I'll do a C.G. check again, and maybe remove an oz. or two of lead from my nose. The model is solid and after my first flights...I'm getting quite fond of Sierra retracts too.

There are a couple of pictures of the first flight at the Pu'unene flying field. One is at start up, with the West Maui Mountains in full view and the take off roll on its maiden flight. The two airborne pictures came out a bit small, but its all I have right now.

I've leaned out the engine just a hair, on the top end. I richened it during my first few runs...but feel it needs to be moved back to the factory settings. The idle is solid... : ) I'm also going to try a Master Airscrew Scimitar 18x10 wood prop. I've used these on other engines and was very impressed with the performance I received. I know I had my PTE a bit rich and no where near top end power...but I felt the model needed more power. I know you scale guys are going nuts and I'll agree its no were near scale in looks...but if it gives me a bit more kick...I'll fly it. I'm also going to try my scale three bladed prop too. But right now I want to see how I can improve the performance of this model. And work on my landings.

This is my second gas engine model...and up until this model, the Top flight WWII .60~.90 size models, were the largest I have flown. I also learned that gas engines will, run rich...but will flat quite, if lean. On my first runs I felt the engine was lean...it wasn't, but with a 20# model...also my heaviest, I wanted a bit of insurance my engine was going to run. Dead stick landings suck with high wing loaded models...especially WWII fighters.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:49 AM
  #266  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Bobby couldn't you also adjust the blades on the prop to get a little more pitch out of it and perhaps a little more speed?
The extra weight on this airframe should do well in Hawaii as it will penetrate the wind a little better perhaps? Either way I wouldn't worry too much about it. My ESM 109E came in at 18 1/2 pounds with the batteries. She flies great, I just have to keep my speed up on approach.

Casey
Old 07-15-2013, 10:03 AM
  #267  
Bob Paris
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Hay Glazier808,
Your right...with my Solo type prop I picked up from T.B.M., I can adjust the prop to a 16x12-3 blade. I wanted 17" blades for the engine, but at the current time these blades are not available, for this hub. I will also be running my M.A. Scimitar 18x10-2 bladed prop and I want to see what I get in this prop too. I also know my engine will take several hours to break-in properly, so in time my engine should be putting out more power. It flies great now...and your correct, the winds and turbulence did not seem to affect this model like my lighter WWII Top Flight fighters. There is also the issue that with the wind direction change, I needed to land South West, and not our normal, North East trades. I'll have to admit, I'm not as proficient in landing S.W. as I am N.E., but considering how nervous I was and being my heaviest and largest model, was happy with how the model handled. The Sierra landing gear, took all the bounce out of my landings and I was very impressed with how they worked for me. This Sierra landing gear is not only strong, but truly help you look like a pro.

I had to take out some Aileron to Rudder mix...I had to much dialed in and I did this after my first flight. My model seemed to nose over in turns, but once I made the change...the model banked more true to form.

My trims were set to high...and this gave me way to much action then I liked once airborne. After I managed to get the trims set properly, for my style of flying, I and the model settled down. That first few minutes of flying this model was quite interesting...but I was trying to trim the F6F for level flight and reset my trims-fly the model and keep breathing. I'll admit it may have looked like I was "not fully in control"...but between my knocking knees and my heart beat...all came out ok. I don't know why...but on first flights on any model...I get a bit nervous.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Old 07-16-2013, 05:36 AM
  #268  
RBean
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Bob Paris, thanks for the clarification on the CG. Congrads on the successful test flights. For some reason I missed the part about measuring at the wing joint. I checked the CG at the wing root because like you my CG meter can't adjust out enough. CG is about 125mm at the roots. That is with gear up and tank empty. Total weight came out to 18.3 lbs. I put ever thing as far forward as possible and didn't have to add any weight. Put the air valve on wing were it fits just behind the gas tank. I mounted the air tank in on the bottom off the wing as far forward as it would go and screwed on the belly pan so it can be remove for maintainance. I mounted a 2700 mha battery on steel shelf brackets above the engine. I have set the control throw as per the instructions and put in 20% negative expo. Just about ready for the test flight but forecast for cross wind today and leaving town to night and will be gone a week or more. Here are some pictures.
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Old 07-16-2013, 05:43 AM
  #269  
RBean
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

I test ran the G-38 with the cowl off yesterday. I plan to run with the cowl on today.
Old 07-18-2013, 02:37 AM
  #270  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Anyone know how long the ESM pull-pull cables last, I doubled the cables, and have yet to see wear or fraying, but all I have done is bench testing!...just want to get 1 flight...too eager to get a maiden in!
Old 07-19-2013, 03:01 AM
  #271  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Bob Paris Is expo needed??? I usually don't fly with expo!!, but from alot of videos on youtube and other sources the hellcat looks fairly touchy/twitchy,
Old 07-19-2013, 03:12 PM
  #272  
Bob Paris
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Hay MasterInnovator,
I do not use expo on elevator...but I do have triple rates on my Tx. I use expo on ailerons...20%, but none on elevator, because I want a more direct feel with my elevator on landing. Some times expo on the elevator screws up my landings more then it helps. On my Tx I have triple rates and I use manual full control on high rate, 20% less on middle rates and 35% less on low rates. This works out great for me and I found out that middle rate is what works best, or 20% less them the manuals recommended full rate.

Now my first flight was very interesting and I was all over the sky, until I got all my controls to the middle rates setting and trimmed the model out for level flight. It looked like I was less in control at first...but to be honest...I was really nervous, but once I managed to get everything set to middle rates, and the ship trimmed out...she grooved very nicely in the air and was rock solid. The twitchy flights may be more of a C.G. issues (the manual C.G. placement of 117mm is wrong), then how the model really flies. My model has her C.G. set with a 110mm~113mm C.G., and she flies like it is on rails and very solid in the air. I have Sierra retractable landing gear with ESM scale wheels...these are no light weights either and weigh out over 1.4 lbs. installed, so I did my C.G. check, with my landing gear RETRACTED, up into the wing. If your using retractable main gear, be sure to retract your wheels up into the wheel wells, before you balance your model.

To balance your model, the manual states to check your C.G. at the wing break @ where the outboard wing connects to the main flat center wing section. Not at the fuselage.

If your going to measure your C.G. against the fuselage, use 128~130mm (this is equal to 110~113mm at the wing break) to measure your C.G. Look at my post 226 in this thread, to see how I came up to this measurement.

Replace your kit supplied pull/pull cables. Buy high end Sullivan pull/pull cables with the plastic covering and use these-or any other equally good steel cables. I've read where many ESM kit supplied pull/pull cables either out right failed or frayed with just a few flights.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui
Old 07-19-2013, 03:42 PM
  #273  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Thanks for the info...I Have balanced at 110mm at the wing break, So I am all set in terms of that. I thought that the videos of the hellcat that I have seen could show that the hellcat could be touchy due to incorrect balance (tail heavy) but I wanted to make sure as I don't know the general flight characteristics of a hellcat...yet!!!
Your alot like me....nervous beyond belief on maidens, just got ignore it and push on I suppose
Old 07-20-2013, 06:14 PM
  #274  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

I got the Hellcat to the field today, ran the engine with the cowl for the first time. It was windy with 15mph gusting switching wind. Didn't fly. I did high speed run on the ground got the tail up. Directional control seemed ok. needed right rudder but not a whole lot. Found several problems. Throttle response was inconsistant on low end. I think I had too much flex in the throttle cable. Added an anchor point nearer the servo. Also a flap hinge came loose. I re-epoxed and then drilled and pinned flaps and elevators. Supposed to be east wind tomorrow close to down the runway. Only problem is the tall corn, but its there until fall. I'm planning on test flight tomorrow afternoon. We will see.
Old 07-20-2013, 06:54 PM
  #275  
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Default RE: ESM F6F Hellcat Info?

Thats unfortunate...Good luck for tomorrow then

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