BORLEX

Companies must start to forget the new idea of no backwards compatibility.

I will not through my money every 3-4 years and waste my time to reprogram all my planes. So I will stick to my 9503 for as long as it gets ( = LESS new transmitters sold - most people change their cellphones every year, I wouldn't mind changing my TX it costs less than an iPhone...) .

I will switch to another manufacturer that offers me support for longer time (backwards rx compatibility and model transfer)

About DSM2 rights. Nobody can stop JR or another company from making removable module systems. This way old customers can keep their receivers and they will start replacing old DSM2 receivers with more reliable DMSS in more expensive planes like jets.

We all understand the reasons and who they want to stop from using not module based systems, but I think there is no turning back...

Mark Vandervelden

Hi Borlex. It is frustrating to not be able to have full backward compatibility but if there's a leap in technology perhaps its worth it and I feel the new DMSS system and the ability to have lots of channels and new features is worth a change every few years. Besides this new XG14 and my XG11 do cost "LESS" than a new i-phone :-) there just not available on a 18-24 monthly contracts hiding the cost. My first JR 2.4 TX was modular with a Specky add on module, it looked awful and ungainly with the aerial hanging out the back but it did allow me to upgrade to the new system more gently. You could still do the same and move over gently by simply treating yourself to a new TX and keep running your old one along side, the old TXs don't fetch that much and the new ones are not relatively as dear as before. I paid more for my old JR 347 TX "30" years ago than the new XG6,8,11 or 14 cost now and that's not allowing for inflation!

BORLEX

This is exactly what I am saying! All faithfull JR users I know WANT to have a brand new trasmitter but they don't buy one because of the backward compatibility problem. They want to spend their money but they can't, so they stick with their 9303. There is no point to have a new transmitter for only 2-3 planes unless they are very expensive turbine jets.

steverobertsuk

Mark

I'll need to look at the update once it arrives but I think that you should just be able to perform one single update.

Yes, the X-Bus rx's will be coming in the next couple of weeks along with the XG14's.

Borlex- There is a solution! Use the JR 11x radio. This is the modular version which cleverly gives you all of the advantages that DSM2 (model match etc) and DMSS (telemetry, model match etc) allow.

Currently this radio comes with both DSM2 and DMSS modules in the box. See here for details [link=http://www.macgregor.co.uk/jrpropo/11x-zero.htm]JR 11x[/link]

This will mean that you can still use your excising receivers but also use JR's new system for future projects.

Steve

Mark Vandervelden

Steve. Thanks, good to hear "two weeks sounds promising" :-) I will get a couple of 7ch X-BUS RXs on order for my Yak-SRS combo. I forgot about the 11X with its module, in fact one of my palls has been using one for ages and is very pleased with it. You cant ask for a better solution for backward compatibility than that and its still no dearer than a new i-phone!

bidrseed2

My Feedback: (2)

Steve,
Does the 11x offer the full 11 channels if using a module, or are you limited to 9? ( I'm thinking about the PPM limit of 9 channels)
If only 9, will X-bus get around that limit?

Best regards
Frank

Dave Wilshere

Frank

Pretty certain 11 channels on either DSM-2 and DMSS.

If you put the DMSS module in a DSX-9, then only 9 channels.

Dave

I still really struggle with this view. I sold a petrol FS twin this week to go in one model, for the cost he could buy TWO XG-11's with MacGregors UK offer including 4 Rx's...so that's 60 models you can fly with the Tx's (without the SD card even being used) one model with the engine. Most Tx's are 20-30 model memories, so we are a turbine forum, lets say average 4000GBP and $6000 each (minimum really) so this thing people are *****ing about could SAFE GUARD £80,000 of models. I think people really miss the point. Backward compatible is....backwards. People are happy to spend thousands on a holiday for two weeks of fun, they could buy a lot of radios for that and if we are saying 5 years minimum use...do the maths. If you want a new Tx, you can buy one. Sorry, but if you can afford turbines, you can buy a radio, you are also unlikely to NEED to sell the old radio to finance it. So like me, my old 100% dependable DSM-2 radios continue to fly those models, and the new model I built for this season, its on DMSS.
Think about it, you really are missing the point.

Dw

steverobertsuk

Frank

Yes, unlike most of the modules on the market JR have put DSM2 and DMSS modulation into the radio so you not only get all of the features of an integrated radio but all of the channels, so in this case you will get 11 channels with both transmission systems.

Steve

BORLEX

I read with great interest all the replies, we all made our points, JR (and other companies) decision makers will make their decisions, but at the end, as always, the market will be the judge. Two comments though. a) I wonder how many tens of thousends of modelers have 20-30 turbine jets, b) 11X Zero was under consideration, but I expected something to compete DX18

DISCUS54

My Feedback: (211)

I agree, JR will need to come out with something in the "XG18" class to compete with the DX18 and the 18MZ. I'm not going to buy a XG11 or XG14 to replace my perfectly good DXMx protocol 12x. I would prefer to stay with programming that I know inside out, however; I have seriously considered Futaba. JR's DMSS may be the best protocol, but buying a XG14 is sorta like buying a VW Bug with a Ferrari engine...the chassis is not capable of utilizing the engine's potential.[:'(]

Dave Wilshere

That was not the point I was making, if you have one aeroplane worth 6K, a radio costing a tenth, that looks after it, is worth way more than a tenth! You don't insure your 100k Ferrari for 10k because its a cheaper insurance deal. JR radio is insurance. From the endless phone calls I get, the DX-18 cannot be talked about in the same class, capable-Yes. Flawed, unfortunately it seems so.

I'm sure I have said before, no one at JR is telling me the XG-14 is a "top line radio" In England its cheaper than an XG-11... The people who have "upgraded" from a DSX-12 to an DX-18...I have a list of people who REALLY wish they hadn't. But do you really expect to pay less and get more in 2013....please
I'm not a Horizon basher, I was very onside then the DX-8 and DX-18 came out in England and a LOT of people lost aeroplanes...sorry, its just plain dangerous. We know DSM-2 is not at fault...

JR are not going to come out with a DX-18 type radio, they are going to come out with something better, but not at a DX-18 price. I wish Horizon had invested a bit more in the DX-18, it would have still been keenly priced, but maybe the 20-30k worth of aeroplanes I know of that have been lost to them wouldn't have...

Futaba...don't get me started there

Time for me to leave this thread, if you can't see past the...I am going to be no help!

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

I can even see that this is not the last of the DMSS line up. The XG14 is not a top end radio by any means. There will be a 12x DMSS replacement and i'm sure it will be a more than a suitable replacement for my 12x.
Price is not the first priority i look at. The Tx i buy will first have to be able to do what i need a Tx to do. Quality, reliability and capability are the foremost things that i consider. If that means spending a few extra bucks, then so be it.
I've always used JR and will continue to do so as i have never lost a model due to radio problems. I have never had the slightest glitch either.

In my 33% edge 540 i have the 1222 RD rx with four remote receivers. Using a data logger to check each receiver i haven't found a single frame loss on either receiver. I'm more than happy with JR and will continue to use their equipment.

BORLEX

Dave for all those reasons you mentioned above we expect to see JR s next move to make our decisions. Personally I will wait a few more months and if I don't see what I expect, I will keep my 9503 for as long as it gets but I am afraid that at some point I llhave to buy the DX18. I seriously considered Weatronic and Jeti and Futaba only for the 3-4 planes I really need a change, but then ergonomy is an. Issue. From another sport I am involved I know that changing tools at least for some time is an issue. The best is to choose a tool and stick to it

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

Is there any plan for the XG14 to come out as in the "Zero" version? having both modules would suit most people who are trapped in the DMS/X vs DMSS battle...

Thanks

dave

rcjetsaok

My Feedback: (7)

Well the question remains... WHEN is this Radio coming out? Does anyone know if it even is in the works? I am hoping it is a 12X looking radio ( not the Cylon one ) DMSS system with 14 to 18 REAL channels and has knobs and sliders like the 12X and similar programming with PC DataSafe back up that is programmable. If the damn thing cost $2000.00+ so be it... There are die hard JR guys out here waiting for such a radio, I have talked to them, they exist. It also needs a robust battery from the get-go, LiFe or LiPo would be great, and designed it so it doesn't come disconnected or fall out of the Transmitter.[] [>:] ( That design cost me a KingCat...)

Waiting for someone in the "Know" to respond,

Danno


P.S. And if Horizon Hobby Dist. doesn't want no part of that, thats cool too !!! Just build it and tell me where to send a check !!!

patf

My Feedback: (4)

You got an amen from me danno. i need to buy a transmitter in the next few months. if the 14 was released in US i may take one knowing the next radio from JR would be the flagship, but my options are seriously limited, i can only guess because Horizon's profit is higher on a spectrum dx18 and they want to protect that from a 14 channel intermediate radio from JR, but they could not hold back a JR flagship type radio if that existed.

ticketec

My Feedback: (2)

The XG14 is due out by 30 Jun here in Australia, so I would guess that if should be released in the US around that time too??

Thanks

dave

Mark Vandervelden

Hi Guys, This has been posted on the JR site and will give a good indication as to the benefit's of JRs new X-BUS that going to be realised along with the XG14 TX, hopefully very soon :-) One point of intrest is the XG14 in theory can run "56" servos in banks of 4 that can then be balanced against each other rather like using 14 Matchboxes. I have noted that they do mention its compatibility with VBar and Microbeast with its serial link for the hele guys but no mention of PowerBox for us jet jockeys? I'm sure "hope" that's an oversight! http://www.jrpropo.co.jp/english/propo/XBus/

Xairflyer

My Feedback: (1)

I had hoped the JR engineers would be smarter than the futaba guys but unfortunately no, same setup with one 3 wire cable running the xbus hub and no means of redundancy!

Mark Vandervelden

Hi Xairflyer..No Redundancy what exactly do you mean.... You still get the option of 7 primary channels direct from the Rx with 7 individual leads if that's what you want. If you were worried about only one wire going to the hubs if used for say four servos on each aileron then simply keep the hubs close to the Rx and use one wire to each of the servos as you would normally and as any power supply is feed directly to the hub, then split amongst the individual servo wires, even better than stressing the distribution board in the Rx. Eventually on every system it ends up at one wire somewhere, I intend to use it with a Powerbox Competition SRS so there's only one lead from ether one or two RXs to the Powerbox and then leads as per normal to the servos.... Alternatively im told the XG14 is actually 14ch not 7+7 so you could just stick with 14 individual long leads in non X-Bus mode. I believe this can be done with two 7ch RXs for the full 14ch or a 11ch Rx for just 11chs which up till now for me has been plenty. I'm guessing there will be a 14ch Rx available at some point. In any case its all a step forward and gives us a choice of many different types of installations. When before could we ever consider having the option of "56" individual servos and be able to adjust any one of them!!

rcjetsaok

My Feedback: (7)

What is Radio going to retail for ?


D

Jame

Really like the sound of the DMSS system, I'm currently on an 18MZ, flown Futaba for a while, and just couldn't justify at the time paying out for a high end DSM2 Tx as it appeared something new is on its way (DMSS was only just being introduced when I bought my new Tx) goes without saying..... I got the jokes at the local club about "Taking Pictures of my Feet" and the standard issue "We could fly hopping on one leg to get the same Frequency Hopping technology you've got" I'm happy enough with what I've got at the minute but if the new JR Flagship is looking like it could be worth the switch then I'd consider swapping, sorry to hijack the XG14 thread but is there no information about JR's latest offering yet??

Surely you must know Dave......

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

Would love to see a firmware update for the 12x module version so that you can run a Dmss module and get all 12 channels. Currently, there is a dmss module available but, it uses the radios PPM protocol. In PPM mode the 12x only has 8 channels

Mike

Mark Vandervelden

Hi RcJetSoak. Ive seen the XG14 advertised pre order here in the UK by Boomerang Jets for £339, I assume that's TX only. On an Australian site I've seen them pre order TX+RX @ $649 (£393) and xtra 7ch RXs at $129 (£78). Gear in Australia tends to be a bit dearer than here in the UK were as gear in the USA tends to be a little cheaper. This all points to it being a very inexpensive TX and I may well get one even though I already have a DX11 with which im extremely happy.

madmodelman

Mark, when you say DX11 do you mean the DSX11 or 11X Zero?