German Speedcup 2013
07-16-2013, 10:33 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NRW, GERMANY
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
From what I can see these guys are true hotrodders who have invented an event and a set of rules that suits their desires.
Wrong. They use FAI-rules!!
I'll bet these guys are all familiar with pylon racing and perhaps some of them are racers, too...?
Correct. As far as I know there about five pilots doing speed and pylon.
Regardless, this ''speed'' event is designed for those who want to play with seriously high timed, lowered torque engines that need a ''boost'' from gravity to get on the pipe for the 200 meter dash.
Wrong, the "electric-speed-engine-guru" flies 350 km/h with about 8500 RPM!! Some of the props have a pitch of about 24 inch. So no high RPM is required.
Yes they gain speed by a dive but those planes are extremely fast even when they fly horizontaly.
I doubt there are very many people who do not respect this event who could show up at the next contest and beat them at their own game.
It becomes more popular since the new electric powered planes are very quite and it´s not a problem with noise anymore.
From what I can see these guys are true hotrodders who have invented an event and a set of rules that suits their desires.
Wrong. They use FAI-rules!!
I'll bet these guys are all familiar with pylon racing and perhaps some of them are racers, too...?
Correct. As far as I know there about five pilots doing speed and pylon.
Regardless, this ''speed'' event is designed for those who want to play with seriously high timed, lowered torque engines that need a ''boost'' from gravity to get on the pipe for the 200 meter dash.
Wrong, the "electric-speed-engine-guru" flies 350 km/h with about 8500 RPM!! Some of the props have a pitch of about 24 inch. So no high RPM is required.
Yes they gain speed by a dive but those planes are extremely fast even when they fly horizontaly.
I doubt there are very many people who do not respect this event who could show up at the next contest and beat them at their own game.
It becomes more popular since the new electric powered planes are very quite and it´s not a problem with noise anymore.
07-17-2013, 03:34 AM
#27
RE: German Speedcup 2013
IE,
I'm not sure what AMA rules you are talking about?
There isn't a rulebook class for an event like this so anything other than FAI compliant is basically a speed rally.
As I posted before there is just enough info on the FAI system to know it uses cameras, otherwise they don't share the true way the system operates. I realize the cameras they are using are pretty spendy but it would be nice to find out how to build a trap here and hold our own speed cup.
I'm not sure what AMA rules you are talking about?
There isn't a rulebook class for an event like this so anything other than FAI compliant is basically a speed rally.
As I posted before there is just enough info on the FAI system to know it uses cameras, otherwise they don't share the true way the system operates. I realize the cameras they are using are pretty spendy but it would be nice to find out how to build a trap here and hold our own speed cup.
07-17-2013, 08:20 AM
#28
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
Vic,
Your right the rule about no speed traps are directed at only turbine powered aircraft, my mistake. (Sorry about that)
Hopefully Vmax, or someone who knows how those camera setups work can give us a far better idea of how the system works.
All I can say for certain is that it involves the two sensor setups at the end of a measured distance and they use the time it takes to cover that distance to determine the actual speed. I would imagine the only real limitation to any accuracy would be the response time of the sensor array but that error is probably very small. As a matter of fact the response time of the array can probably be compensated for in the speed calculation, if you really wanted to go nuts, but as a guess I would think your only talking something on the order of .05% of overall accuracy worst case.
Vmax,
Yes, like I said I know some of you guys are very active in pylon racing, I think a few are very seriously involved in high performance sailplanes as well.
Your right the rule about no speed traps are directed at only turbine powered aircraft, my mistake. (Sorry about that)
Hopefully Vmax, or someone who knows how those camera setups work can give us a far better idea of how the system works.
All I can say for certain is that it involves the two sensor setups at the end of a measured distance and they use the time it takes to cover that distance to determine the actual speed. I would imagine the only real limitation to any accuracy would be the response time of the sensor array but that error is probably very small. As a matter of fact the response time of the array can probably be compensated for in the speed calculation, if you really wanted to go nuts, but as a guess I would think your only talking something on the order of .05% of overall accuracy worst case.
Vmax,
Yes, like I said I know some of you guys are very active in pylon racing, I think a few are very seriously involved in high performance sailplanes as well.
07-17-2013, 11:59 AM
#29
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NRW, GERMANY
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
ORIGINAL: iron eagel
Vmax,
I think a few are very seriously involved in high performance sailplanes as well.
Vmax,
I think a few are very seriously involved in high performance sailplanes as well.
07-17-2013, 12:11 PM
#30
RE: German Speedcup 2013
IE,
I have tried quite a few time to get the info to make the exact system but it seems to be top secret. It is pretty complex with the window box the planes need to fly in with a given altitude at entry and any decent while in the trap.
I have tried quite a few time to get the info to make the exact system but it seems to be top secret. It is pretty complex with the window box the planes need to fly in with a given altitude at entry and any decent while in the trap.
07-17-2013, 12:22 PM
#31
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NRW, GERMANY
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
No, it´s not top secret.
As far as I konw the FAI-Rules are:
200 Meter track with a 100 meter long entry at both sides.
Height between 5 and 35 meters from the beginnig of the entry until the end of the 200 meter track.
Track is 20 meters wide.
That´s the box.
From both sides at least one succesful timing within one flight without an intermediate landing.
That´s it.
Or ask the FAI. They will give you the infos.
As far as I konw the FAI-Rules are:
200 Meter track with a 100 meter long entry at both sides.
Height between 5 and 35 meters from the beginnig of the entry until the end of the 200 meter track.
Track is 20 meters wide.
That´s the box.
From both sides at least one succesful timing within one flight without an intermediate landing.
That´s it.
Or ask the FAI. They will give you the infos.
07-17-2013, 01:49 PM
#32
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
Vmax,
I think what he RE: "Top Secret" part is the components and software in the measurement system itself.
= Computer. O.S. Data capture software, data sensors/camera. It would be nice to get an idea of the components and types of software to look at to set up a similar system for measurement here in the states. So we don't wind up with a case of apples to oranges as far as comparison of our results.
It looks like you guy have some fun with it.
Would you be kind enough to post a link to the actual class rules on the FAI site I think I looked at the right one, but just to be sure?
As far as the plane it was something like 1000 CM span (is that max or min?).
Max weight like 6.5 5lbs +/- (2.94835 kg) ???
Do these sound like the right rules?
What is the ceiling of the box?
I think what he RE: "Top Secret" part is the components and software in the measurement system itself.
= Computer. O.S. Data capture software, data sensors/camera. It would be nice to get an idea of the components and types of software to look at to set up a similar system for measurement here in the states. So we don't wind up with a case of apples to oranges as far as comparison of our results. It looks like you guy have some fun with it.
Would you be kind enough to post a link to the actual class rules on the FAI site I think I looked at the right one, but just to be sure?
As far as the plane it was something like 1000 CM span (is that max or min?).
Max weight like 6.5 5lbs +/- (2.94835 kg) ???
Do these sound like the right rules?
What is the ceiling of the box?
07-17-2013, 01:52 PM
#34
RE: German Speedcup 2013
Bingo!
I think what he RE: "Top Secret" part is the components and software in the measurement system itself. = Computer. O.S. Data capture software, data sensors/camera. It would be nice to get an idea of the components and types of software to look at to set up a similar system for measurement here in the states. So we don't wind up with a case of apples to oranges as far as comparison of our results.
07-17-2013, 11:26 PM
#36
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NRW, GERMANY
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
ORIGINAL: iron eagel
Vmax,
I think what he RE: ''Top Secret'' part is the components and software in the measurement system itself. = Computer. O.S. Data capture software, data sensors/camera. It would be nice to get an idea of the components and types of software to look at to set up a similar system for measurement here in the states. So we don't wind up with a case of apples to oranges as far as comparison of our results.
I have no idea what they using. Sorry.
Would you be kind enough to post a link to the actual class rules on the FAI site I think I looked at the right one, but just to be sure?
As far as the plane it was something like 1000 CM span (is that max or min?).
Max weight like 6.5 5lbs +/- (2.94835 kg) ???
Do these sound like the right rules?
What is the ceiling of the box?
The only way is probably to send an E-mail to the FAI to get the rules.
As mentioned before as far as I know the box has follwing dimensions: 200 meters long, 20 wide and the height is 5(bottom) - 35 (ceiling)meters.
Vmax,
I think what he RE: ''Top Secret'' part is the components and software in the measurement system itself.
= Computer. O.S. Data capture software, data sensors/camera. It would be nice to get an idea of the components and types of software to look at to set up a similar system for measurement here in the states. So we don't wind up with a case of apples to oranges as far as comparison of our results.I have no idea what they using. Sorry.
Would you be kind enough to post a link to the actual class rules on the FAI site I think I looked at the right one, but just to be sure?
As far as the plane it was something like 1000 CM span (is that max or min?).
Max weight like 6.5 5lbs +/- (2.94835 kg) ???
Do these sound like the right rules?
What is the ceiling of the box?
The only way is probably to send an E-mail to the FAI to get the rules.
As mentioned before as far as I know the box has follwing dimensions: 200 meters long, 20 wide and the height is 5(bottom) - 35 (ceiling)meters.
07-17-2013, 11:28 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NRW, GERMANY
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
ORIGINAL: Vmax
ORIGINAL: iron eagel
Vmax,
I think what he RE: ''Top Secret'' part is the components and software in the measurement system itself. = Computer. O.S. Data capture software, data sensors/camera. It would be nice to get an idea of the components and types of software to look at to set up a similar system for measurement here in the states. So we don't wind up with a case of apples to oranges as far as comparison of our results.
I have no idea what they using. Sorry.
Would you be kind enough to post a link to the actual class rules on the FAI site I think I looked at the right one, but just to be sure?
As far as the plane it was something like 1000 CM span (is that max or min?).
Max weight like 6.5 5lbs +/- (2.94835 kg) ???
Do these sound like the right rules?
What is the ceiling of the box?
The only way is probably to send an E-mail to the FAI to get the rules.
As mentioned before as far as I know the box has follwing dimensions: 200 meters long, 20 wide and the height is 5(bottom) - 35 (ceiling)meters.
I guess it´s about 5 kilo gramms in max weight and I am sure with the max wing loading of 75 g/dm².
No limit in wing span. And there might be an max voltage. I heard something about 42 Volts but I am not sure. This might be for the german records only but I am not sure!!
Vmax,
I think what he RE: ''Top Secret'' part is the components and software in the measurement system itself.
= Computer. O.S. Data capture software, data sensors/camera. It would be nice to get an idea of the components and types of software to look at to set up a similar system for measurement here in the states. So we don't wind up with a case of apples to oranges as far as comparison of our results.I have no idea what they using. Sorry.
Would you be kind enough to post a link to the actual class rules on the FAI site I think I looked at the right one, but just to be sure?
As far as the plane it was something like 1000 CM span (is that max or min?).
Max weight like 6.5 5lbs +/- (2.94835 kg) ???
Do these sound like the right rules?
What is the ceiling of the box?
The only way is probably to send an E-mail to the FAI to get the rules.
As mentioned before as far as I know the box has follwing dimensions: 200 meters long, 20 wide and the height is 5(bottom) - 35 (ceiling)meters.
I guess it´s about 5 kilo gramms in max weight and I am sure with the max wing loading of 75 g/dm².
No limit in wing span. And there might be an max voltage. I heard something about 42 Volts but I am not sure. This might be for the german records only but I am not sure!!
07-18-2013, 05:41 AM
#38
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Holland Patent,
NY
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
Vicman,
Be advised that a "model speed trap" was availble for clocking R/C models many years ago. It was a commercial sytem called SPEEDMASTER and used by the R/C jet community for speed competition with ducted fan models. When the AMA turbine rules prohibited speed runs, the SPEEDMASTER system went away. Some R/C pylon pilots purchased and used the SPEEDMASTER sytem for timing their racers. The system utilizes two (2) upward staring light sensors which record the passage of any objects ( R/C models) that pass through their field of view (about 90 degrees or 45 from vertical). The sensor outputs are transmitted over a hardwire link to a hand held dispaly which calculates the speed in MPH or KMH, over a range of 20-499 MPH/KPH. The SPEEDMASTER system was manufactured and sold out of TX and theasking price was about $ 500 USD. I purchased mine from some pylon racers for a fraction of that. If intersted, PM me for further details on this.
Art ARRO
Be advised that a "model speed trap" was availble for clocking R/C models many years ago. It was a commercial sytem called SPEEDMASTER and used by the R/C jet community for speed competition with ducted fan models. When the AMA turbine rules prohibited speed runs, the SPEEDMASTER system went away. Some R/C pylon pilots purchased and used the SPEEDMASTER sytem for timing their racers. The system utilizes two (2) upward staring light sensors which record the passage of any objects ( R/C models) that pass through their field of view (about 90 degrees or 45 from vertical). The sensor outputs are transmitted over a hardwire link to a hand held dispaly which calculates the speed in MPH or KMH, over a range of 20-499 MPH/KPH. The SPEEDMASTER system was manufactured and sold out of TX and theasking price was about $ 500 USD. I purchased mine from some pylon racers for a fraction of that. If intersted, PM me for further details on this.
Art ARRO
07-18-2013, 06:53 AM
#39
RE: German Speedcup 2013
Art,
That sounds pretty good but I'm pretty sure it isn't FAI compliant. We are currently using a Stalker Pro for the Carolina Speed Rally and are pretty happy with the results. However the FAI purists enjoy pointing out the inaccuracy of radar guns and just about anything else that is different from the F3S unit used for FAI competition.
Fraction of $500? Sounds intriguing.
That sounds pretty good but I'm pretty sure it isn't FAI compliant. We are currently using a Stalker Pro for the Carolina Speed Rally and are pretty happy with the results. However the FAI purists enjoy pointing out the inaccuracy of radar guns and just about anything else that is different from the F3S unit used for FAI competition.
Fraction of $500? Sounds intriguing.
07-18-2013, 10:33 AM
#40
RE: German Speedcup 2013
ORIGINAL: Vmax
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
From what I can see these guys are true hotrodders who have invented an event and a set of rules that suits their desires.
Wrong. They use FAI-rules!!
Do you have any idea whose input was used to form the rules..? No German input..?
I'll bet these guys are all familiar with pylon racing and perhaps some of them are racers, too...?
Correct. As far as I know there about five pilots doing speed and pylon.
Regardless, this ''speed'' event is designed for those who want to play with seriously high timed, lowered torque engines that need a ''boost'' from gravity to get on the pipe for the 200 meter dash.
Wrong, the ''electric-speed-engine-guru'' flies 350 km/h with about 8500 RPM!! Some of the props have a pitch of about 24 inch. So no high RPM is required.
Yes they gain speed by a dive but those planes are extremely fast even when they fly horizontaly.
How is this statement wrong..?
The FAI rules have a speed category that is specific for fuel burning engines. The photos of your event clearly show planes with fuel burning engines..?
Are these engines and pipes just "camoflage" to hide electric motors that are buried inside them..?
Thanks for letting me know that there IS a category for electric power..I never would have known that without your help....
I doubt there are very many people who do not respect this event who could show up at the next contest and beat them at their own game.
It becomes more popular since the new electric powered planes are very quite and it´s not a problem with noise anymore.
From what I can see these guys are true hotrodders who have invented an event and a set of rules that suits their desires.
Wrong. They use FAI-rules!!
Do you have any idea whose input was used to form the rules..? No German input..?
I'll bet these guys are all familiar with pylon racing and perhaps some of them are racers, too...?
Correct. As far as I know there about five pilots doing speed and pylon.
Regardless, this ''speed'' event is designed for those who want to play with seriously high timed, lowered torque engines that need a ''boost'' from gravity to get on the pipe for the 200 meter dash.
Wrong, the ''electric-speed-engine-guru'' flies 350 km/h with about 8500 RPM!! Some of the props have a pitch of about 24 inch. So no high RPM is required.
Yes they gain speed by a dive but those planes are extremely fast even when they fly horizontaly.
How is this statement wrong..?
The FAI rules have a speed category that is specific for fuel burning engines. The photos of your event clearly show planes with fuel burning engines..?
Are these engines and pipes just "camoflage" to hide electric motors that are buried inside them..?
Thanks for letting me know that there IS a category for electric power..I never would have known that without your help....
I doubt there are very many people who do not respect this event who could show up at the next contest and beat them at their own game.
It becomes more popular since the new electric powered planes are very quite and it´s not a problem with noise anymore.
07-18-2013, 11:23 AM
#41
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
ORIGINAL: Vmax
ORIGINAL: Vmax
ORIGINAL: iron eagel
Vmax,
I think what he RE: ''Top Secret'' part is the components and software in the measurement system itself. = Computer. O.S. Data capture software, data sensors/camera. It would be nice to get an idea of the components and types of software to look at to set up a similar system for measurement here in the states. So we don't wind up with a case of apples to oranges as far as comparison of our results.
I have no idea what they using. Sorry.
Would you be kind enough to post a link to the actual class rules on the FAI site I think I looked at the right one, but just to be sure?
As far as the plane it was something like 1000 CM span (is that max or min?).
Max weight like 6.5 5lbs +/- (2.94835 kg) ???
Do these sound like the right rules?
What is the ceiling of the box?
The only way is probably to send an E-mail to the FAI to get the rules.
As mentioned before as far as I know the box has follwing dimensions: 200 meters long, 20 wide and the height is 5(bottom) - 35 (ceiling)meters.
I guess it´s about 5 kilo gramms in max weight and I am sure with the max wing loading of 75 g/dm².
No limit in wing span. And there might be an max voltage. I heard something about 42 Volts but I am not sure. This might be for the german records only but I am not sure!!
Vmax,
I think what he RE: ''Top Secret'' part is the components and software in the measurement system itself.
= Computer. O.S. Data capture software, data sensors/camera. It would be nice to get an idea of the components and types of software to look at to set up a similar system for measurement here in the states. So we don't wind up with a case of apples to oranges as far as comparison of our results.I have no idea what they using. Sorry.
Would you be kind enough to post a link to the actual class rules on the FAI site I think I looked at the right one, but just to be sure?
As far as the plane it was something like 1000 CM span (is that max or min?).
Max weight like 6.5 5lbs +/- (2.94835 kg) ???
Do these sound like the right rules?
What is the ceiling of the box?
The only way is probably to send an E-mail to the FAI to get the rules.
As mentioned before as far as I know the box has follwing dimensions: 200 meters long, 20 wide and the height is 5(bottom) - 35 (ceiling)meters.
I guess it´s about 5 kilo gramms in max weight and I am sure with the max wing loading of 75 g/dm².
No limit in wing span. And there might be an max voltage. I heard something about 42 Volts but I am not sure. This might be for the german records only but I am not sure!!
Thanks for clarifying the span question the rules were not very clear as to it that (1000cm) was a max or a min size that must be the minimum span you can use.
07-18-2013, 12:28 PM
#42
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NRW, GERMANY
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
ORIGINAL: Vmax
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
From what I can see these guys are true hotrodders who have invented an event and a set of rules that suits their desires.
Wrong. They use FAI-rules!!
Do you have any idea whose input was used to form the rules..? No German input..?
I don´t know. A russian held the speed record for a long time; > 20 years. They must have been created before.
I'll bet these guys are all familiar with pylon racing and perhaps some of them are racers, too...?
Correct. As far as I know there about five pilots doing speed and pylon.
Regardless, this ''speed'' event is designed for those who want to play with seriously high timed, lowered torque engines that need a ''boost'' from gravity to get on the pipe for the 200 meter dash.
Wrong, the ''electric-speed-engine-guru'' flies 350 km/h with about 8500 RPM!! Some of the props have a pitch of about 24 inch. So no high RPM is required.
Yes they gain speed by a dive but those planes are extremely fast even when they fly horizontaly.
How is this statement wrong..?
The FAI rules have a speed category that is specific for fuel burning engines. The photos of your event clearly show planes with fuel burning engines..?
Are these engines and pipes just ''camoflage'' to hide electric motors that are buried inside them..?
Thanks for letting me know that there IS a category for electric power..I never would have known that without your help....
1. I understood from what you were writing that only high RPMs are used.
2. Electric engine record-class is actualy quite old. Around 20 years or so.
Go to : http://www.fai.org/records/aeromodelling-spacemodelling
then below " Search Records" choose "F3 Open - Radio Control flight" -> search button!!
There are several electric classes.
I doubt there are very many people who do not respect this event who could show up at the next contest and beat them at their own game.
It becomes more popular since the new electric powered planes are very quite and it´s not a problem with noise anymore.
From what I can see these guys are true hotrodders who have invented an event and a set of rules that suits their desires.
Wrong. They use FAI-rules!!
Do you have any idea whose input was used to form the rules..? No German input..?
I don´t know. A russian held the speed record for a long time; > 20 years. They must have been created before.
I'll bet these guys are all familiar with pylon racing and perhaps some of them are racers, too...?
Correct. As far as I know there about five pilots doing speed and pylon.
Regardless, this ''speed'' event is designed for those who want to play with seriously high timed, lowered torque engines that need a ''boost'' from gravity to get on the pipe for the 200 meter dash.
Wrong, the ''electric-speed-engine-guru'' flies 350 km/h with about 8500 RPM!! Some of the props have a pitch of about 24 inch. So no high RPM is required.
Yes they gain speed by a dive but those planes are extremely fast even when they fly horizontaly.
How is this statement wrong..?
The FAI rules have a speed category that is specific for fuel burning engines. The photos of your event clearly show planes with fuel burning engines..?
Are these engines and pipes just ''camoflage'' to hide electric motors that are buried inside them..?
Thanks for letting me know that there IS a category for electric power..I never would have known that without your help....
1. I understood from what you were writing that only high RPMs are used.
2. Electric engine record-class is actualy quite old. Around 20 years or so.
Go to : http://www.fai.org/records/aeromodelling-spacemodelling
then below " Search Records" choose "F3 Open - Radio Control flight" -> search button!!
There are several electric classes.
I doubt there are very many people who do not respect this event who could show up at the next contest and beat them at their own game.
It becomes more popular since the new electric powered planes are very quite and it´s not a problem with noise anymore.
07-18-2013, 03:07 PM
#43
My Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Holland Patent,
NY
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
Vicman,
I don't know the claimed speed accuracy of the Speedmaster system but will research the documentation that I have.
Note that the Jet Pilot's Org. (JPO) currently uses a Falcon HR Traffic Safety Radar Gun. The System Spec Accuracy +- 1 MPH, when stationery and +-2 MPH when moving. In the stationery Mode the measured range is 10-205 MPH. This uses a Doppler Radar principal and measures the speed of objects eitheradvancing or receding, or both. Atuning fork device is used to calbrate the unit in the field if required.
It is very sensitive and picks up even small foamies at a safe range. Typical turbine jets are picked up at severalhundred feet range, either coming or going. I used itat my Highland Jets eventlast month andalsoclocked several models at my local club fields.
The price is the Falcon HR Radar Gun is about$1200 and is available on loan to JPOCD's running jet events- forspeed enforcement purposes only.
Art ARRO
I don't know the claimed speed accuracy of the Speedmaster system but will research the documentation that I have.
Note that the Jet Pilot's Org. (JPO) currently uses a Falcon HR Traffic Safety Radar Gun. The System Spec Accuracy +- 1 MPH, when stationery and +-2 MPH when moving. In the stationery Mode the measured range is 10-205 MPH. This uses a Doppler Radar principal and measures the speed of objects eitheradvancing or receding, or both. Atuning fork device is used to calbrate the unit in the field if required.
It is very sensitive and picks up even small foamies at a safe range. Typical turbine jets are picked up at severalhundred feet range, either coming or going. I used itat my Highland Jets eventlast month andalsoclocked several models at my local club fields.
The price is the Falcon HR Radar Gun is about$1200 and is available on loan to JPOCD's running jet events- forspeed enforcement purposes only.
Art ARRO
07-19-2013, 09:45 AM
#44
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Konz, Germany, GERMANY
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
The German rules are very easy:
combustion engines: we are speeeding in 3 classes and the FAI class for world record
class: A was up to 3,5ccm, not flown anymore . cancelled
B up to 6,5ccm
C up to 10ccm
D up to 15ccm
all models weight max 5kg, and max 100Gramm/dm2 wing load, all the rest is free
FAI class: max 10ccm, wing load 75Gramm/dm2 , max 5kg
all the rest is free
E speed, max 5kg, 75Gramm/dm2 wing load 42 Volt or 10s LIPO
FAI same but now up to 72 Volt
Best regards Michael
combustion engines: we are speeeding in 3 classes and the FAI class for world record
class: A was up to 3,5ccm, not flown anymore . cancelled
B up to 6,5ccm
C up to 10ccm
D up to 15ccm
all models weight max 5kg, and max 100Gramm/dm2 wing load, all the rest is free
FAI class: max 10ccm, wing load 75Gramm/dm2 , max 5kg
all the rest is free
E speed, max 5kg, 75Gramm/dm2 wing load 42 Volt or 10s LIPO
FAI same but now up to 72 Volt
Best regards Michael
07-21-2013, 01:50 AM
#47
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Konz, Germany, GERMANY
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
'm always amazed that many questions come to the speed measurement system and less on the models and engines.
Often the speed measuring system is seen as keys for speed flying. But I miss the American models and speed pilots. To date, I have not seen a real speed model from an American pilot. The opposite is often the case ARF models and much gimmick with little engineering sense. It is a pity that such a great model nation has no more to offer. But is is the way it goes the great America has little to offer as in other areas also. The leading rule was yesterday.
Best regards Michael
Often the speed measuring system is seen as keys for speed flying. But I miss the American models and speed pilots. To date, I have not seen a real speed model from an American pilot. The opposite is often the case ARF models and much gimmick with little engineering sense. It is a pity that such a great model nation has no more to offer. But is is the way it goes the great America has little to offer as in other areas also. The leading rule was yesterday.
Best regards Michael
07-21-2013, 07:27 AM
#48
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
Michale,
Primarily, Vicman is looking at what is needed as far as the OS, software, and equipment that you guys use for speed measurement. So that the event he holds each year has the capability to records aircraft speed in a way that it is comparable to your F3S event directly. Now that we know the rules governing the different Glow and Electric classes we need to have a measurement system that is the same so we can compare the results directly.
Your right far to many model airplanes in the States today are ARF's very few of us actually take the time to build anymore and that is indeed sad. A few of us have got a pretty good idea of what you guys are doing as far as the airframes and engines and electric power plants. I myself have read several articles that a couple of you have posted regarding the process that you guy's use in making molds and props for you events. For whatever reason the AMA has not really encouraged any real interest in F3S in this country even though there are a few guys which are interested in it.
With that in mind I can tell you for a fact there are at least a few guys here that would love for you to give us some of your insight and tips for this type of competition.
Regards
Paul
Primarily, Vicman is looking at what is needed as far as the OS, software, and equipment that you guys use for speed measurement. So that the event he holds each year has the capability to records aircraft speed in a way that it is comparable to your F3S event directly. Now that we know the rules governing the different Glow and Electric classes we need to have a measurement system that is the same so we can compare the results directly.
Your right far to many model airplanes in the States today are ARF's very few of us actually take the time to build anymore and that is indeed sad. A few of us have got a pretty good idea of what you guys are doing as far as the airframes and engines and electric power plants. I myself have read several articles that a couple of you have posted regarding the process that you guy's use in making molds and props for you events. For whatever reason the AMA has not really encouraged any real interest in F3S in this country even though there are a few guys which are interested in it.
With that in mind I can tell you for a fact there are at least a few guys here that would love for you to give us some of your insight and tips for this type of competition.
Regards
Paul
07-21-2013, 07:43 AM
#49
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Middleboro, MA
Posts: 3,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: German Speedcup 2013
ORIGINAL: f3d
'm always amazed that many questions come to the speed measurement system and less on the models and engines.
Often the speed measuring system is seen as keys for speed flying. But I miss the American models and speed pilots. To date, I have not seen a real speed model from an American pilot. The opposite is often the case ARF models and much gimmick with little engineering sense. It is a pity that such a great model nation has no more to offer. But is is the way it goes the great America has little to offer as in other areas also. The leading rule was yesterday.
Best regards Michael
'm always amazed that many questions come to the speed measurement system and less on the models and engines.
Often the speed measuring system is seen as keys for speed flying. But I miss the American models and speed pilots. To date, I have not seen a real speed model from an American pilot. The opposite is often the case ARF models and much gimmick with little engineering sense. It is a pity that such a great model nation has no more to offer. But is is the way it goes the great America has little to offer as in other areas also. The leading rule was yesterday.
Best regards Michael
Combatpigg and myself have openly wondered why an American with the money to do do it hasn't made a attempt to build a plane and go over and beat you guy's at you own game.
Regards,
Paul
P.S.
Last time I checked there are only American footprints on the Moon.
07-21-2013, 08:10 AM
#50
My Feedback: (1)
RE: German Speedcup 2013
Those are 44 year old footprints. Michael brings up a good point.
One problem is our country's huge size. Germany is slightly smaller than Montana with 80 million people. Makes it much harder to hold a speed event here.
Modeling is pretty much dead in the US. ARF's are about all today's addled population can manage.
I think though that the Germans miss a lot in their aircraft designs, but may have a slight advantage in current power systems.
One problem is our country's huge size. Germany is slightly smaller than Montana with 80 million people. Makes it much harder to hold a speed event here.
Modeling is pretty much dead in the US. ARF's are about all today's addled population can manage.
I think though that the Germans miss a lot in their aircraft designs, but may have a slight advantage in current power systems.
