EQ1

Hello everybody!

Just jumping into this pool of ASP 400AR experts. I have read this interesting thread from page 1 and must say there is a lot of valuable information.

Now the story: this engine was on my wishlist for long and recently I hit the "Add to cart" button After it arrived yesterday I thought today, it would be a good idea to open it up to just have a look at least to the e-clips and link pins and lube it up, because it felt a little dry when turning. What I found was quite disappointing, noticeable metal debris, small chips to be precise. Not a lot, but alarming for me. Here are some pics I have taken.
[img]IMG_20130719_230912.jpg[/img]
Because the engine feels OK otherwise, no crunching noise or anything I suppose it is from manufacturing. Cleaned it up and lubed it, will give it a try shortly. I hope this will be the only issue with this engine. Everything else looks good, even the e-clips seem to be of better quality, they are black and smooth now.

Have a nice day and happy flying. Will do myself tomorrow, weather is incredibly nice over here.

Olaf

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Hello Olaf,

That swarf is unfortunately commonplace in Chinese manufactured engines. It probably would not have ruined your engine, but it is good that you flushed it out first.

Happy radial engine running!

Carosel43

I would say that the engine has been test run, albeit very briefly. This has probably flushed out all the bits they didn't bother to clean. Either that or the parts were washed poorly or in dirty water etc etc. In any event I recently ran in an ASP61 4 stroke and the compression came right up. My suggestion is bin the instructions and run it quite rich and up to about 1/2 throttle for the first 3 minutes or so. Stop it, let it cool and then restart it, this time get it up to full power in little bursts of a few seconds and start leaning the engine off until you get close to max rpm. you don't want to go too mad but you really need to get heat and rpm into it. use a 20x8 nylon prop and just keep revving it while making sure you have lots of oil everywhere

This is a more softly softly approach than that which I use on my lasers but the principal is the same. Before I ran in this asp 61 I have never had an asp 4 stroke with what I would call decent compression. This 61 however came in brilliantly with this slightly more aggressive running in procedure. Just make sure you keep it oiled up, as you have pre oiled it then I really doubt there will be a problem.

EQ1

Thanks Tom and Carosel, I will try what you suggested. This is what I did with all my engines and they were reliable and powerful afterwards. One thing bothers me somehow, the question whether to block off the drain plug or not. I have a FT160 also, and it runs really fine with it open. As I understand it is meant to function draining the crank case, and the problems some have seen here after the first few minutes may only be due to the fact that the engine was not oiled up initially and did not have time to cummulate enough oil in the front case. So I will try it open and have an ear to it. The new instructions clearly state to leave it open (one time mentioned). As a side note, it is the instruction from the Magnum brand. Although it says ASP on the front, inside it is called Magnum here and there ...

But breaking this baby in will need to wait some days, because I intend to burn my last two liters of fuel in the air today

retransit

My Feedback: (18)

Just when I thought I had one of the good ones.

I had my Fleet out the other day and I thought I heard a different sound pitch coming from the ASP radial. I only had one flight and returned home. I removed the engine from the aircraft and disassembled the rear so I could see if anything was floating around. Other than some staining on the crank counterweight and two very small pieces (1/64") of aluminum, everything look right. I buttoned it up and flew it again yesterday. This time the pitch change developed into a growl. Once on the ground, the prop was hand rotated with no discernible roughness. The prop was held horizontal and by pulling and pushing the blades in opposite directions there is definite play at the prop hub. Looks like bearings to me. Previously I changed out the rod pin clips to an E-clip design as recommended by Kmot. The engine has 20 hours of run time and was flushed with Marvel Mystery Oil after each outing.


Bob

Carosel43

Time to get some SKF bearings or order I think,grumbly noises are bad

My engine however is still working. this comes as quite a surprise to me, but another two flights on Saturday with no drama at all. Also due to my end of day oiling when I start it up the next time I get lots of white smoke puffing randomly out of the cylinders as they clear themselves. It looks and smells very realistic!!

SrTelemaster150

Gotta love all the smoke that belches from those P&W R2800s when they start up.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VmxkpgiURA&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

BJ64

Now that's what I'm talkin bout, Willis

BJ

BJ64

What sort of "growl"...??

Hope you din chip a tooth of the timing gears [X(]

BJ

retransit

My Feedback: (18)

The growl is nothing that would lead me to believe it has a chipped tooth in a timing gear. It is not a very pronounced sound. Best guess by all that were present is that it is the bearings. Anyway, since I have no experience in the rebuilding of radials and their assorted parts, I'm sending it off to BJ's Model Engine Service today for an overhaul.

I'll let you know what he finds.

Bob

Heli-NuBee

My ASP 400 five cylinder radial engine powered CMP Zero was brought back to life today but only briefly. My good friend finished the repairs on the wing from the engine problem and hard landing maiden flight that put the landing gear throught the wings on both sides. He reinforced the wings but not enough, I guess. Since he did the repair, he also took the first and only flight today. I richened the engine a bit from the maiden flight and put a bit smaller prop on the engine this time. The engine performed well thoughout the entire flight. He had about a 10 minute flight and again had issues with the landing. He seemed to touch down well but the plane jumped back into the air about two feet high and stalled falling on the left wing. He straightened the plane using the rudder but the plane was now off to the side of the runway and the landing gear on the right side caught the side of the asphalt runway and broke loose from the wing. This put more pressure on the left landing gear strut and it also broke loose from the wing. The retracts have quite a long strut that gives a lot of leverage if the landing is not perfect. I have not weighed the plane but it seems quite heavy but flies very well. My friend took the wing home with him again for round two repairs. He tells me he is done with the Zero, next time I get to wreck it!!!

Best wishes and good safe flying.

Heli-NuBee (AKA Roger the radial rabbit)

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

It would appear that your landing gear legs are much too long and your wheels/tires much too small. This could possibly account for the hard bounce up when attempting to land.

retransit

My Feedback: (18)

I agree to both observations, Tom.

Is that what the aircraft manufacturer called for, Roger? It looks like gear from a Fieseler Storch.

Bob

EQ1

You are right, this looks strange and ugly. But this is not the main reason for the accident. The struts have springs, which store the energy of the plane on touchdown. Because after that the energy is still present, the springs will give that back to the plane and shoot it up in the air again. The only way to avoid this is to mount either real oleo struts or dampers in addition to the springs, which will absorb a large amount of the energy (converting into heat). Springs alone just reduce the load onto the wings compared to simple steel wires due to the increase in time while compressing (force is momentum change over time). I have a Gee Bee R2, which has a real high wing loading and requires landing speeds above 32 mph. Many people crash their R2 due to bad landing gears, so I did exactly the mentioned modification (just put dampers from model cars with thicker oil in parallel to the spring) and it lands beautifully soft. So I suggest to modify it like this and you will be fine.

Carosel43

Hi Nubee, I had the same problem with my ESM P39, I just caught the nose gear before the main legs and it bounced it a good few feet in the air. With the slightly tail heavy cg I had as it was a maiden there was nothing I could do and it pulled the nose gear out when it came back down. I would definitely suggest bigger wheels and shorter legs. see if you can get some of those air filledwheels or foam. I have found that these don't bounce as much as normal rubber wheels. Also, to provide some damping squirt some very thick oil or grease into the current oleo to damp its response. I will be doing this very soon on my P40 as our grass patch is getting very very bumpy and it causing havoc. we need a roller!!

On the bright side however its good to hear your 400 is behaving better

How is the 300v doing? have you managed to get it sorted?

Heli-NuBee

Hey Carosel43 (Jon), My 300V is running well. I am having a great time with the Laser 300V powered GP Giant Stik. My Saito R200 three cylinder radial engine powered Seafury and Evolution G20 gas engine powered GP Stuka also flew yesterday and are doing very well. I agree that the landing gear struts on the Zero are too long but that is what fits the wheel wells on the plane. If I shorten the struts or use larger wheels, it will no longer be retractable and I might as well go to a fixed gear or completely redesign the wing. It is a shame because the engine is running great and the plane flies well but it just does not want to land. My friend is one of the best pilots in our area so this issue was not one of piloting skill. I agree, if I changed the gear and rebuilt the wing, it would probably cure the problem. Thanks for everyone's input.

Best wishes and good safe flying.

Heli-NuBee (AKA Roger the radial rabbit)

jaav

any one have a spare 400 for sale...Thinking again..

SJN

I think the Zero struts look allright.
If you install correct size wheels, and gear doors, you will see a big difference

retransit

My Feedback: (18)

That may be. Here's a full-size.

Bob

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuoVlQOO4xc[/youtube]

Carosel43

Well, now that rcu is back up I can say that I was able to have another day of problem free flying with my 400. That said I think the Loctite I used to hold the bearings in has given up as there seems to be play in the front bearing again. If this is the case I am just going to leave it as there is no way to fix this problem other than to order new parts. That or try and re machine the bearing seats and put in some kind of insert. Given the state of the rest of the engine I do not think it is worth it.

BJ64

I think I may have scored a TopFlite FW190. YaY!

Hope this ASP 400 has enough guts to get it into the sky... (??)

BJ

BJ64

What the HELL is wrong with RCU lately?

It's either down, or you can't edit your posts... if you can get that far even... (????)

BJ

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Well, you know that engines do not last forever. And you have certainly gotten a lot of use out of this engine so far. Once it finally gives up the ghost, polish and paint it and make a display piece.

Carosel43

I have not actually flown it that much. I would say its got less than 50 flights on it, definitely under 100 and its dead. I have saito os enya laser and even asp engines that have a lot more running on them than that! its pretty poor. if the engine had run every weekend for 10 years then ok, but its done no real work at all

and BJ they were trying to update the forum software but had a problem. its in the big green banner at the top of the screen

BJ64

Ahhhh... 'technical issues' then, Caro?

I notice that the 'Edit' button is completely removed today.

Gotta love computers

BJ

PS - of course, as soon as I say that, the edit button is back and is working again [X(]