The New F86D Dog Sabre
05-05-2013, 06:51 PM
#926
RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
Sorry to hear about the gear ripping out, Flilek! Good information to be cautious though. This evening, I measured the wing incidence as best I could, given it's a swept planform. Here's a picture of it. Bottom line, is there is no significant washout. I got a .25 degree difference from root-to-tip. For what it's worth, it was in the positive AOA direction. javascript:void(AddText('
','_image/s2.gif'))
With regard to the CROW, I wasn't considering using down aileron (flaperon) as an alternative, that's for sure. Either way(CROW or Flaperon), you're bring the wingtip closer to stall than before, for a given AOA. As a matter of fact, many times people don't realize this when they take their models off before they're ready to fly, and the plane naturally starts to bank, they usually correct with opposite aileron. This, unfortunately, brings the aileron downwards on that low wing. The effective increase in AOA on that side unfortunately makes that wing cross into stall, keeping the rolling coming instead of the desired opposite effect of correcting the roll. So, flaperon can be a dangerous thing. The correct response is opposite rudder, not aileron.
I think I'll maiden this jet on grass so I won't be too worried about slowing the bird down in the flare and skip the CROW. Later, on asphalt, I can experiment.
Anyone have any pics of the brake routing up the struts?
','_image/s2.gif'))With regard to the CROW, I wasn't considering using down aileron (flaperon) as an alternative, that's for sure. Either way(CROW or Flaperon), you're bring the wingtip closer to stall than before, for a given AOA. As a matter of fact, many times people don't realize this when they take their models off before they're ready to fly, and the plane naturally starts to bank, they usually correct with opposite aileron. This, unfortunately, brings the aileron downwards on that low wing. The effective increase in AOA on that side unfortunately makes that wing cross into stall, keeping the rolling coming instead of the desired opposite effect of correcting the roll. So, flaperon can be a dangerous thing. The correct response is opposite rudder, not aileron.
I think I'll maiden this jet on grass so I won't be too worried about slowing the bird down in the flare and skip the CROW. Later, on asphalt, I can experiment.
Anyone have any pics of the brake routing up the struts?
05-05-2013, 08:07 PM
#927
My Feedback: (11)
RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
Use the crow. And not sure why you think grass is easier, you need to slow down MORE on a grass landing. Hitting the grass too fast will break the retracts out. ON pavement you can land as fast as you want.
Yes cross wind with this jet is no good. It doesnt like it, and eventually I avoided the cross wind. If you are in a situation where your final turn is a tail wind, you will snap easy. Happened to me, and I ripped retracts out. Fixed it up but local guy still tell everyone I crashed a turbine. I never crashed, retracts just come out too easy.
The retacts on mine ripped out about 3 times. After the third time, a lot of sheeting was gone on the bottom. I then re-enforced the formers with plywood by trippling up the thickness. Now it took a beating! I eventually glassed my wings which helped a lot.
For the retract blocks, if or when the come out, reglue them back in with gorilla glue. I like polyurathane for retract blocks. It has some "give" before it breaks. But it DOES break which is good, as then onlyt he blocks come out. Epoxy starts to crack, and eventually the gear rip out even on a good landing. Hysol is too strong, will break formers and sheeting out.
Eventually I flew of the grass 70 more times and not one issue with the retracts.
I'll see if I can a picture of the brake lines. I routed them down the struts. There is a little fake cover made of balsa next to retract, I removed this and routed lines there.
Flilek, glad you have the luck with the gyro. No such luck here but your brain get used to the shaking. Its just that onboard camera videos make me throw up!
PS PS: DO NOT USE the stock clevises for the wings and tail. Buy new ones. Mine had the pins come out during install.
Yes cross wind with this jet is no good. It doesnt like it, and eventually I avoided the cross wind. If you are in a situation where your final turn is a tail wind, you will snap easy. Happened to me, and I ripped retracts out. Fixed it up but local guy still tell everyone I crashed a turbine. I never crashed, retracts just come out too easy.
The retacts on mine ripped out about 3 times. After the third time, a lot of sheeting was gone on the bottom. I then re-enforced the formers with plywood by trippling up the thickness. Now it took a beating! I eventually glassed my wings which helped a lot.
For the retract blocks, if or when the come out, reglue them back in with gorilla glue. I like polyurathane for retract blocks. It has some "give" before it breaks. But it DOES break which is good, as then onlyt he blocks come out. Epoxy starts to crack, and eventually the gear rip out even on a good landing. Hysol is too strong, will break formers and sheeting out.
Eventually I flew of the grass 70 more times and not one issue with the retracts.
I'll see if I can a picture of the brake lines. I routed them down the struts. There is a little fake cover made of balsa next to retract, I removed this and routed lines there.
Flilek, glad you have the luck with the gyro. No such luck here but your brain get used to the shaking. Its just that onboard camera videos make me throw up!
PS PS: DO NOT USE the stock clevises for the wings and tail. Buy new ones. Mine had the pins come out during install.
05-06-2013, 12:58 AM
#928
RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
ORIGINAL: essyou35
My comments in RED
Use the crow. And not sure why you think grass is easier, you need to slow down MORE on a grass landing. Hitting the grass too fast will break the retracts out. ON pavement you can land as fast as you want.
I was thinking that I wouldn't roll off the end of the runway on grass. Good point though, about the retracts ripping out. Wheels seem small, which won't help on grass either.
Yes cross wind with this jet is no good. It doesn't like it, and eventually I avoided the cross wind. If you are in a situation where your final turn is a tail wind, you will snap easy. Maybe in that particular situation, crow wasn't helpful?Happened to me, and I ripped retracts out. Fixed it up but local guy still tell everyone I crashed a turbine. I never crashed, retracts just come out too easy.You're a better pilot than I am if you snap rolled a jet on base-to-final and only ripped out the gears!
The retacts on mine ripped out about 3 times. After the third time, a lot of sheeting was gone on the bottom. I then re-enforced the formers with plywood by trippling up the thickness. Now it took a beating! I eventually glassed my wings which helped a lot. It wouldn't be that hard to locally glass the bottom & tops of the wings right now. I'll consider it. As I work with the wings, it seems the wood is quite soft. Just handling the wing causes noticeable dents in the wood, which shows a LOT with the silver film covering. I'm bad at glassing, but a few wrinkles from local glassing wouldn't really look much worse than these wings do after all the manipulation! Even with towels on the bench, dents still appear.
For the retract blocks, if or when the come out, reglue them back in with gorilla glue. I like polyurathane for retract blocks. It has some ''give'' before it breaks. But it DOES break which is good, as then onlyt he blocks come out. Epoxy starts to crack, and eventually the gear rip out even on a good landing. Hysol is too strong, will break formers and sheeting out.
Eventually I flew of the grass 70 more times and not one issue with the retracts.
I'll see if I can a picture of the brake lines. I routed them down the struts. There is a little fake cover made of balsa next to retract, I removed this and routed lines there.
Flilek, glad you have the luck with the gyro. No such luck here but your brain get used to the shaking. Its just that on-board camera videos make me throw up! Not sure if anyone noticed, but the Futaba gyro that's referenced in the plans is actually a heading-lock gyro. I actually couldn't find a gY 190. Only a G190. So I read the specs for it, and it says it's heading-lock. The servo-loop frequencies are much too high to be effective on a plane's rudder. If there really is a gY 190 AND a G190, maybe that's the difference.
PS PS: DO NOT USE the stock clevises for the wings and tail. Buy new ones. Mine had the pins come out during install.I used all 4-40 rods connected to Dubro giant scale ball joints on both ends, all surfaces. I tossed the clevises in the trash. The reason is the swept wing hinge lines causes the control horns to translate sideways. That would have meant the clevis pin holes needed to be enlarged to prevent binding, thus leading to excessive play.
My comments in RED
Use the crow. And not sure why you think grass is easier, you need to slow down MORE on a grass landing. Hitting the grass too fast will break the retracts out. ON pavement you can land as fast as you want.
I was thinking that I wouldn't roll off the end of the runway on grass. Good point though, about the retracts ripping out. Wheels seem small, which won't help on grass either.
Yes cross wind with this jet is no good. It doesn't like it, and eventually I avoided the cross wind. If you are in a situation where your final turn is a tail wind, you will snap easy. Maybe in that particular situation, crow wasn't helpful?Happened to me, and I ripped retracts out. Fixed it up but local guy still tell everyone I crashed a turbine. I never crashed, retracts just come out too easy.You're a better pilot than I am if you snap rolled a jet on base-to-final and only ripped out the gears!
The retacts on mine ripped out about 3 times. After the third time, a lot of sheeting was gone on the bottom. I then re-enforced the formers with plywood by trippling up the thickness. Now it took a beating! I eventually glassed my wings which helped a lot. It wouldn't be that hard to locally glass the bottom & tops of the wings right now. I'll consider it. As I work with the wings, it seems the wood is quite soft. Just handling the wing causes noticeable dents in the wood, which shows a LOT with the silver film covering. I'm bad at glassing, but a few wrinkles from local glassing wouldn't really look much worse than these wings do after all the manipulation! Even with towels on the bench, dents still appear.
For the retract blocks, if or when the come out, reglue them back in with gorilla glue. I like polyurathane for retract blocks. It has some ''give'' before it breaks. But it DOES break which is good, as then onlyt he blocks come out. Epoxy starts to crack, and eventually the gear rip out even on a good landing. Hysol is too strong, will break formers and sheeting out.
Eventually I flew of the grass 70 more times and not one issue with the retracts.
I'll see if I can a picture of the brake lines. I routed them down the struts. There is a little fake cover made of balsa next to retract, I removed this and routed lines there.
Flilek, glad you have the luck with the gyro. No such luck here but your brain get used to the shaking. Its just that on-board camera videos make me throw up! Not sure if anyone noticed, but the Futaba gyro that's referenced in the plans is actually a heading-lock gyro. I actually couldn't find a gY 190. Only a G190. So I read the specs for it, and it says it's heading-lock. The servo-loop frequencies are much too high to be effective on a plane's rudder. If there really is a gY 190 AND a G190, maybe that's the difference.
PS PS: DO NOT USE the stock clevises for the wings and tail. Buy new ones. Mine had the pins come out during install.I used all 4-40 rods connected to Dubro giant scale ball joints on both ends, all surfaces. I tossed the clevises in the trash. The reason is the swept wing hinge lines causes the control horns to translate sideways. That would have meant the clevis pin holes needed to be enlarged to prevent binding, thus leading to excessive play.
05-06-2013, 04:24 AM
#929
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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
Hi,
I bought simply a 40$ gyro in my local shop (suppose it is chinese) and it works. For best results, you need a fast servo on the rudder. My biggest problem was to get a free additional channel on my radio. Do not forget to block ATV in the direction of heading an the channel for sensibility.
In Europe, we use clevis with metrical thread. So I made all new. The flat hinges of my choice are the big Kavan hinges. I tried a lot in my model career (over 40 years), and this brand is for me the best you can get.
Flilek
I bought simply a 40$ gyro in my local shop (suppose it is chinese) and it works. For best results, you need a fast servo on the rudder. My biggest problem was to get a free additional channel on my radio. Do not forget to block ATV in the direction of heading an the channel for sensibility.
In Europe, we use clevis with metrical thread. So I made all new. The flat hinges of my choice are the big Kavan hinges. I tried a lot in my model career (over 40 years), and this brand is for me the best you can get.
Flilek
05-06-2013, 04:59 AM
#930
RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
Brave guy, Flilek, using a chinese gyro! I do buy some stuff from Hobby King, but never anything electronic. I've had many servos fail, and gas ignition cutoff optos fail too. In fact, the only electronic items that havn't failed are the Orange Rx Spektrum and Futaba knock-off receivers. I use them for casual planes that have low investment.
I save HK for stuff like servo lead extension keepers.
Now, ATV, or "Adjust Travel Volume". Thanks for the tip on disabling ATV. This would have been an issue with my plane if I had a better radio than the DX8, but I am channel-max'd out. An ATV headlock/airplane gyro needs an extra channel, as I think you mentioned before. I don't have an available channel. I am using Y connectors already for almost everything. Throttle, turbine cutoff, Y Flaps, Y Elevators, Y ailerons, Gear, Brake, and Rudder. Count 'em, 8. [X(]
I would love to see the pics of landing gear brakes. Anyone have any good tips on brake valves?
I save HK for stuff like servo lead extension keepers.
Now, ATV, or "Adjust Travel Volume". Thanks for the tip on disabling ATV. This would have been an issue with my plane if I had a better radio than the DX8, but I am channel-max'd out. An ATV headlock/airplane gyro needs an extra channel, as I think you mentioned before. I don't have an available channel. I am using Y connectors already for almost everything. Throttle, turbine cutoff, Y Flaps, Y Elevators, Y ailerons, Gear, Brake, and Rudder. Count 'em, 8. [X(]
I would love to see the pics of landing gear brakes. Anyone have any good tips on brake valves?
06-26-2013, 03:39 AM
#932
RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
Here's some advise from someone unqualified to answer your question! Oh well, that's nothing new for forums! [:-]
I did do quite a bit of research before buying my first jet, the Dog Saber. The Modelbau Tornado is a bare, entry level jet. Obviously, it flies and most importantly, lands slower than some jets, with lower wing loading. But it doesn't touch the scale urge as a builder. It's just a platform, that's all.
I'm still building my Dog, so I'm really not qualified to do more than pass on my approach to this choice. I have heavy Warbird experience, most of which land fast and hard. So, I bought a cheaper "jet" trainer platformI got and flew a Hangar 9 Evader, which is a fast 100+ MPH small, fiberglas EDF (electric ducted fan)jet. Man, what a pocket rocket that baby is!!!! So you learn how to control a fast moving object, with a high wing loading. It's a bungee launch, and lands so fast it's over before you know it. There is NO FLARE. Just flies to the ground. This is what you need to experience to handle the jet, IMHO.
I assure you, this is a more fun way to gain experience than to build a jet that looks goofy. Lastly, the F86 is KNOWN to be an excellent flying model. It is the P47 Thunderbolt of jets. Very well mannered. It has a relatively thick, high lift wing, with only modest sweep.
Hope this helps. For buying, send me private email for more advise.
I did do quite a bit of research before buying my first jet, the Dog Saber. The Modelbau Tornado is a bare, entry level jet. Obviously, it flies and most importantly, lands slower than some jets, with lower wing loading. But it doesn't touch the scale urge as a builder. It's just a platform, that's all.
I'm still building my Dog, so I'm really not qualified to do more than pass on my approach to this choice. I have heavy Warbird experience, most of which land fast and hard. So, I bought a cheaper "jet" trainer platformI got and flew a Hangar 9 Evader, which is a fast 100+ MPH small, fiberglas EDF (electric ducted fan)jet. Man, what a pocket rocket that baby is!!!! So you learn how to control a fast moving object, with a high wing loading. It's a bungee launch, and lands so fast it's over before you know it. There is NO FLARE. Just flies to the ground. This is what you need to experience to handle the jet, IMHO.
I assure you, this is a more fun way to gain experience than to build a jet that looks goofy. Lastly, the F86 is KNOWN to be an excellent flying model. It is the P47 Thunderbolt of jets. Very well mannered. It has a relatively thick, high lift wing, with only modest sweep.
Hope this helps. For buying, send me private email for more advise.
06-26-2013, 01:48 PM
#933
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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
Guys, to bring you up to date. I was concerned about the measured wash-in on the wings (as stated previously), but set the controls (including crow) as indicated in the manual. No problem...... Test flight went well, F86 handled like the tornado (had both), and landed well. We had a little crosswind, but pretty light, so that wasn't a great test for crosswind handling, however, I think it will handle moderate crosswinds fine. I have a Jetcat P70 in mine, and most of the flight was flown at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle except for takeoff and verticals. The F86 is a fine sport airplane and is a pleasure to fly. Despite some mfg errors, the a/c was not hard to build, but took some time to correct the problems. I finally glassed mine because #1 I modified the nose to more scale outline and had to fair the fuse into the new larger nose cone, #2 - I kept sticking my fingers through the soft balsa in the wing and stabs, #3 I wanted to do a Coverite Presto chrome finish on it. Very pleased with the final result, and even more pleased when it turned out to be an excellent sport bird. I've attached some pictures of the bird under construction and almost finished.
Regards. Les
Regards. Les
06-27-2013, 07:14 AM
#934
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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
Wow that build is beautiful....
I'm in the process of stripping and glassing the wings and stabs, hope to have them ready for paint this weekend.
Has anyone modified the mounting for the ailerons and flaps to be internal?
I had a tornado v3 that got into a ground accident, wing tip destroyed, but don't like it enough to rebuild
so all the stuff is going into the f-86, since the v3 struts were too long , and cound not be cut down i ordered some prolink struts, the front fits into the original spring air's no problem, for the rear i simply turned them down on a lathe to fit... wheels and brakes needed 1/4 to 3/16 bushings made, voila retraces for the f-86 on a dime
Also going to do a single steering arm mod instead of the pull pull.
Still debating on wether to build a cockpit or smoke the glass..
On another note, although some formers are crooked they all seem to be in quite solid unlike the tornado, so i do not think i will be pulling them out.
I'm in the process of stripping and glassing the wings and stabs, hope to have them ready for paint this weekend.
Has anyone modified the mounting for the ailerons and flaps to be internal?
I had a tornado v3 that got into a ground accident, wing tip destroyed, but don't like it enough to rebuild
so all the stuff is going into the f-86, since the v3 struts were too long , and cound not be cut down i ordered some prolink struts, the front fits into the original spring air's no problem, for the rear i simply turned them down on a lathe to fit... wheels and brakes needed 1/4 to 3/16 bushings made, voila retraces for the f-86 on a dime Also going to do a single steering arm mod instead of the pull pull.
Still debating on wether to build a cockpit or smoke the glass..
On another note, although some formers are crooked they all seem to be in quite solid unlike the tornado, so i do not think i will be pulling them out.
07-23-2013, 01:43 PM
#935
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RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
Hi all,
Unfortunately my Dog Sabre stalled on landing. It is repairable but the problem is the carbon fibre joiner. I sent an email to Modellbauusa to get a spare part but got no answer. In UK they although have no spare part and told me to buy otherwhere.
So the season is going on and I can't fly the sabre because of the missing part. In Europe it is difficult to get parts with imperial size. I should throw my F-86 away and buy other things.
Flilek
Unfortunately my Dog Sabre stalled on landing. It is repairable but the problem is the carbon fibre joiner. I sent an email to Modellbauusa to get a spare part but got no answer. In UK they although have no spare part and told me to buy otherwhere.
So the season is going on and I can't fly the sabre because of the missing part. In Europe it is difficult to get parts with imperial size. I should throw my F-86 away and buy other things.
Flilek
07-23-2013, 01:51 PM
#936
RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
ORIGINAL: jetjockey
Guys, to bring you up to date. I was concerned about the measured wash-in on the wings (as stated previously), but set the controls (including crow) as indicated in the manual. No problem...... Test flight went well, F86 handled like the tornado (had both), and landed well. We had a little crosswind, but pretty light, so that wasn't a great test for crosswind handling, however, I think it will handle moderate crosswinds fine. I have a Jetcat P70 in mine, and most of the flight was flown at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle except for takeoff and verticals. The F86 is a fine sport airplane and is a pleasure to fly. Despite some mfg errors, the a/c was not hard to build, but took some time to correct the problems. I finally glassed mine because #1 I modified the nose to more scale outline and had to fair the fuse into the new larger nose cone, #2 - I kept sticking my fingers through the soft balsa in the wing and stabs, #3 I wanted to do a Coverite Presto chrome finish on it. Very pleased with the final result, and even more pleased when it turned out to be an excellent sport bird. I've attached some pictures of the bird under construction and almost finished.
Regards. Les
Guys, to bring you up to date. I was concerned about the measured wash-in on the wings (as stated previously), but set the controls (including crow) as indicated in the manual. No problem...... Test flight went well, F86 handled like the tornado (had both), and landed well. We had a little crosswind, but pretty light, so that wasn't a great test for crosswind handling, however, I think it will handle moderate crosswinds fine. I have a Jetcat P70 in mine, and most of the flight was flown at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle except for takeoff and verticals. The F86 is a fine sport airplane and is a pleasure to fly. Despite some mfg errors, the a/c was not hard to build, but took some time to correct the problems. I finally glassed mine because #1 I modified the nose to more scale outline and had to fair the fuse into the new larger nose cone, #2 - I kept sticking my fingers through the soft balsa in the wing and stabs, #3 I wanted to do a Coverite Presto chrome finish on it. Very pleased with the final result, and even more pleased when it turned out to be an excellent sport bird. I've attached some pictures of the bird under construction and almost finished.
Regards. Les
07-23-2013, 02:32 PM
#937
RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
ORIGINAL: Flilek
<SNIP> In Europe it is difficult to get parts with imperial size. I should throw my F-86 away and buy other things.
Flilek
<SNIP> In Europe it is difficult to get parts with imperial size. I should throw my F-86 away and buy other things.
Flilek
I bought my spars from www.rcfoam.com.
Greg
07-24-2013, 06:03 AM
#939
My Feedback: (11)
RE: The New F86D Dog Sabre
Jet Jockey, I actually had started gearing up to coat mine in chrome monokote as well. However at the last minute it sold before the add expired. I also added a 3rd fuel tank as I only got 3 minute flights with my k80.
Very nice!
I have been flying a jet lefend viper for awhile now (75 flights) and I must say it is way easier to fly than this sabre dog! its actually hurting my skills!
Very nice!
I have been flying a jet lefend viper for awhile now (75 flights) and I must say it is way easier to fly than this sabre dog! its actually hurting my skills!
09-18-2013, 03:16 PM
#944
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is there anyway to adjust the spring tension on the front gear of the modelbau spring air retract. i have a small rubber band on each of the steering cables just streched enough so there is no tension on them when the retract is up. there is still to much tension for them to lock down.
09-18-2013, 04:06 PM
#945
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I don't know if the tension can be changed or not, but when I had my F-86D I put a zip tie between the steering cables to spread them with gear up and had no problems. Can attach the zip tie either with heat shrink tubing or electrical tape.
Regards,
Gus
Regards,
Gus
09-19-2013, 12:27 PM
#946
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looks like i have it fixed for now. i changed from one rubber band per cable to one long rubber band running under both cables. it would be a lot nicer if the front had self centering springs so the wheel would stay straight when the cables go slack. looks like dreamworks has the proper setup so i'll be changing the front retract. as a side note , it would be help if the exh pipe was about two inches longer, i have a kingtech k60g in it and the engine mount is almost against the rear bulkhead, a longer pipe would also help out setting the cg correctly.
10-13-2013, 06:36 PM
#947
Hello guys, it's been a while since I've posted here. I haven't made much progress on my F86 this summer because I somehow got talked into learning, flying, and repairing large RC helicopters. Never thought I'd to that, but it became somewhat addictive. Now, I'm back on the F-86. I just installed the vertical stabilizer. The base molded into the fuse was off thrust-line, so that couldn't be used as an alignment guide. For vertical alignment, I just put in the spar with a line level stuck to it. Then, I used a plumb bob to set the vertical stabilier to "vertical". Then, to reinforce the tail, I glued in two balsa blocks thru which carbon fiber rods extend all the way up into the stabilzier.
Now, the real question: I have the Spring-Air retracts. Upon installing the nose retract, I notice the steering bellcrank interferes with the mounting rails (for the retract). Clearly, any steering cables won't seat well in there with only a slot cut to clear the arm. As it is, the retract would not even retract fully.
Has anyone else run into this interference? IT seems like A NYONE who has the Spring Air's should encounter the same thing. Please let me know. Thanks!
Now, the real question: I have the Spring-Air retracts. Upon installing the nose retract, I notice the steering bellcrank interferes with the mounting rails (for the retract). Clearly, any steering cables won't seat well in there with only a slot cut to clear the arm. As it is, the retract would not even retract fully.
Has anyone else run into this interference? IT seems like A NYONE who has the Spring Air's should encounter the same thing. Please let me know. Thanks!
10-14-2013, 10:23 AM
#949
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I don't have my F-86 any more, but I think I took some wood out of the mounting rails to make room for the steering arm. Check posts 552, 719 and 720 for nose gear info/pics.
Regards,
Gus
Regards,
Gus
10-20-2013, 11:07 AM
#950
Dog Saber nose gear rails reinforcements
Thanks for the post numbers, mtflyer. They are interesting. I did cut out some wood for the nose gear steering arms, but while cutting, one entire rail broke loose. I felt I had to reinforce this a lot, so here's a picture of the results. I added more rails on each outer side, blocks above, and then a cross piece to link everything together. Then, to reinforce the aft end of the rails, I added plywood former reinforcements on either side. I think this will work ok. See the pic, any comments appreciated.