RedDevils

Hey guys and girls.

I'm trying figure out what the primary color is on this 3rd Panzer Div Panther from East Prussia in Sept 1944. I think the secondary is Schokoladenbraun. Any thoughts?



Thanks in advance

Derek

MAUS45

Dark Yellow despite the shading on this print.

RedDevils

Thanks Maus,

Knowing that the yellow is off in the print, do you believe that thebbrown could be of a different tone as well? Maybe a red brown shade?

Thanks again,

Derek

rivetcounter

The brown is Olivegrun with a base coat of Dunkelgelb

MAUS45

That is the problem with prints. It could be a darker shade of red brown or even dark green. Most often the prints are ideas taken from black and white photos or movie news reels. It is all about the interpretation of the photo or movie frame the photo was pulled from. I have attached a photo of this tank. Read the caption and compare it to the print. The splinter camo could be red brown and dark green stripes based on the caption, but then again it could be thinned red brown vs dark red brown? [8D] Notice in the print they left off the extra tracks on the turret and the number painted on the tracks, "215". Lots of detail to consider. Wish there was a better photo from a different angle.

Frantz70

Take into consideration the season that tank was operating in, not much green in a wheat field in September.

Reds and yellows.

Glen B

Iam following this thread with interest, I will be working on a new Panther G, after my current Tiger I.

I have found researching and authenticating late 1944/1945 panther camo a "challenge"; seems there are fewer records and pictures from that chaotic time.

The difficulty with colour plates for research, IMHO, is basically thatpeople can draw whatever they want; while the pattern onthis one does look like the few original b&w photo's, the colurs may well be just someone's own idea.

Rivetcounter, I have availed myself of your knowledge before, do you have any other information on this camo pattern, colours and history? I would sure be interested tolearn more on the subject.

ausf

I wouldn't spend too much time obsessing over the accuracy of colors, beyond just knowing what shade was used, ie, olive green over dark yellow, red over panzergrey, etc.

Even with RAL numbers, definitive research, yada yada yada, the fact is we have no way of knowing what the exact final color is of a tank that existed 70 years ago just based on application, what the primer and solvent was (sometimes gas, sometimes diesel, sometimes water or factory used solvent), let alone the effects of weather, dirt, grime, oil and use, then add scale effect too.

Best practice is choose a pattern you like from historical photos and choose the colors that most appeal to you, recreate it and enjoy. No one can challenge it. Build what you love, love what you build.

MAUS45

Captain Barbosa from Pirates of the Caribbean, "The Code is more like guidelines than actual rules!", so what ausf said is true, the only thing we know is the general outline of the camo pattern.

Even the camo pattern is conjecture as to how it was applied over the whole tank. That said, go for it. No one can complain about accuracy as the stripes could be many variations of green or red brown or both. It will still look cool no matter which way you go with the colors.

Glen B

Yeah, I agree completely.

I make an effort to find out the authentic colours but once I find out that accurate reference data is scarce, I follow that "policy"

RedDevils

Gentlemen,

Thank you for all the excellent info and sound advice. While I was doing some research, I found this 1/35th scale representation of a Panther G Late production of the 11th Panzer Division in Bavaria 1945. I like the look of the rear late model road wheel and the paint scheme. Who know what I'll do?



Thanks again,

Derek

Glen B

Not the same tank, but here are some similar patterns, I assume these were hard edge and possibly factory applied?

Airbrushler

interesting i like it

RedDevils

Thanks Glen for the ref pics, much appreciated.

Hey Greg, well you have seen the first two that I've been pondering and here is the other one. Late war Panzer Lehr Panther.



Which one do you like?

Derek

Glen B

Another colour plate I found in a search, it was un-creditied.

A slightly different intrepretation.

RedDevils

I've seen that one as well, it is a sweet paint scheme.

Have you checked out the World War II Zone? Tons of excellent ref pics in there.

Thanks again.

Derek

Airbrushler

always liked this one it's pretty cool up to you though...lol

Captain Nemo12

Out of curiosity, why was only the last road wheel replaced with the steel wheel?

mustclime

Just a guess, the front and rear road wheels had the most contact with the tracks....as the tracks wrapped around them.

RedDevils

That is a sound explanation, also with the weight of the power pack they may wanted to reinforce the rear road wheel. I've seen lots of pictured examples on a German reference site called Panther1944. Great site just all in German. Google translate here I come.

Derek

rivetcounter

The steel wheel on the last station is factory fitment by I think MNH or Daimler Benz, only 1 factory supplied Panther with this wheel layout I have no explanation why but had nothing to do with weight, standard Panther road wheels are 860mm, the steel wheel is 800mm.

Glen I’m not fully up to date on this period with Panther but it’s probably got a lot to do with factory paint job this will probably represent one of the factories who built Panther just like the disc pattern and the ambush pattern done by MAN for 1 month then the dots were dropped owing to the time taken to apply, paint job on German tanks of this period rarely represented individual divisions

Socioanthroman

The 11th panzer panther was rotbraun and dunklegelb, like the Panzer iv, panther to the left.

RedDevils

Just wanted to say Thanks to all who offered their insight with this post. Much appreciated.

Derek