OhD

Where is the beginning and end of an 8 sided loop? Is it really a nine sided loop or does the maneuver start with at least 50 ft. of straight and level flight to the mid point of the bottom side and end with similar straight and level after the mid point?
Then how soon can the next maneuver be started?

Jim O

MTK

In the middle. Half the bottom line is flown at the start and the other half at the end

The next maneuver can be started after 50 feet of SNL. And actually the roll-half loop TA works well entering the cuban.....Cujos to the sequence designers!!

Mvelez

I'd say an eight sided loop regardless if it has a flat side on the bottom or if it sarts with a vertex on the center bottom starts with a declared straight line before and ends after a straight line after. I'd say a straight line around two or three seconds before and after. in theory you just need to declare a straight line after the maneuver in order to start the following, and it has to be long enough to fit the box as well as not showing too much of a hurry... one has to leave the maneuver, fly evidently straight and then you can follow for the next one.

my two cents...

Marcelo

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

A nine sided loop....... Hey I agree it is! Mike

rcprecision

My Feedback: (6)

Jim O

Assuming we are discussing the AMA Masters 8-side loop, the way the maneuver description is written the entry point is the first 1/8 loop before the first 45 degree line segment. The judging of the maneuver began albeit subjectively with the required straight-line between maneuvers which does not have a defined length, just that it must be demonstrated.

The exit is the completion of the 8th line segment which conceptually is where the maneuver began. The next maneuver can begin after a straight line is demonstrated. Again AMA rules do not define the length of the straight line between maneuvers just that it must be demonstrated. If no straight line is observed a 2point downgrade is awarded to the upcoming maneuver.

The exception to this is entering or exiting the maneuvering area. The rules state a 15 meter (~50’) minimum straight line must occur prior to beginning of the first maneuver and completion of the final maneuver. This of course excludes take off and landing since they are not done within the maneuvering area.

DMichael

My Feedback: (5)

Good explanation- followup question. I have flown the current Advanced sequence which has, maneuver #7: Immelman followed by, #8, an 8-sided outside loop from top. I don't fly in contests often enough to be sure- can you confirm my interpretation that:

#7, Immelman- judging of this maneuver ends after the roll when plan is wings level.

The line between #7 and #8 is judged

#8, eight sided loop- while technically the manuever may start with the first 1/8 loop- in fact, any errors in the line between the end of the immelman and the start of the 8 sided loop would be applied to the following manuever, in this case the 8 sided loop.

So- if I'm right, the beginning of judging of the loop starts at the end of the preceding maneuver.

Thanks-

Fixed Wing

A+ for actually reading and knowing the rules. How unique...

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

There must be a straight line between all maneuvers. So if there is no straight line, shouldn't the downgrade be 1 point off the completed maneuver and 1 point off the upcoming maneuver?

cmoulder

This is correct according to FAI 5B.8.3

See rcprecision response above for AMA rulebook description. 2-point deduction for the upcoming maneuver.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Bob. Just to clarify, this is what I have found. This is correct as of 1st January 2012. Unless of course the rules have been amended since then.

Cheers
Scott

5B.8.3. LINES
All aerobatic manoeuvres are entered and exited by a horizontal line of recognisable length. When no horizontal line is flown between two manoeuvres, the just-completed manoeuvre must be downgraded by 1 point and the upcoming manoeuvre must be downgraded by 1 point. Horizontal flying between manoeuvres which is not considered part of the exit or entry line, must be observed, but not judged for quality.

Derek.Koopowitz

Scott,

You are both correct... the question was specific to USA AMA rules which state that a 2 point deduction is taken off the upcoming maneuver. In F3A it is as you stated.

Derek.Koopowitz

To answer your questions...

1. The Immelman is complete after a straight and level horizontal line is flown after the 1/2 roll is complete.

2. The line between maneuvers should be judged as it essentially encompasses two distinct things - the straight and level flight line that all maneuvers should have on exit, and the straight and level flight line that all maneuvers need to have at the beginning. Since we don't have a defined length for this line, one could argue that they exit line and entry line between maneuvers merge at some point (if the distance between maneuvers is not long). Even if there is a long line between maneuvers it is always a good idea to maintain wings level, straight and level flight between maneuvers as the judges will be watching your plane the entire time (that is a judging requirement).

3. In order to achieve maximum points on a maneuver one should be looking at all criteria of the maneuver - precision, smoothness and gracefulness, positioning (centering), and size/distance - and including all the maneuver elements such as radii, rolls, etc.

MTK

DUH Matt, read the description!!

The maneuver description clearly states the maneuver starts with the first 1/8 loop element. It also states that it is completed as soon as the last 1/8 loop element is done and the model is in inverted SNL.....The description doesn't say much about the "SIDES", but down below, in Downgrades, item 5 is clear..."8 sides, etc etc".

In partial rolling and point maneuvers, any rolling maneuvers actually, the ROLL is complete when rolling is finished. Hesitations don't play a role on the last so called point.

In partial and segmented loops like this one, at least based on the downgrades listed, the last "side" is important and must be flown. Then comes a straight line segment before the next maneuver starts....

I've seen one of the guys fly into the TA occasionally, immediately after the eigth side was done, with no discernible line segment between maneuvers. I think that a downgrade on the next maneuver should have been given