RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

One of the benefits of what I do here at RCU is I get to meet up and talk with the people that work at companies that provide us with everything in this hobby, companies like Hobbico, Horizon, and Hobby People. I've made the same observation to them in casual conversation and all of them say the same thing, glow is not going anywhere anytime in the foreseeable future. OS and Saito are both developing new glow engines to add to their line of existing engines, and sales for engines such as Magnum and others are still up and very healthy for the industry. Now don't confuse that with these companies continuing to produce a particular engine that's just not selling well any longer, but that's just business. You need to remember that glow engines for airplanes are only part of a much larger market. Glow engines are also found on RC cars and RC boats as well. So there are more factors than just what we fly that figure into all of this.

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

The villagers may chase me out of town with flaming torches for saying this. But after 25 years of glow, I am really enjoying gas. I am reserving battery powered planes for foamies and don't see that changing. But I like the ease and cleanliness of gas and find myself leaving my favorite plane in the shop more and more. Guess I need to order that DLE20 for it and sell the Saito 1.25.[]

david

spd101

I am lucky because our clubs runway and facilities are located in Lake Murray State Park in Oklahoma. It has been at this location for almost 25 years.

Beavis

My Feedback: (19)

RCKen summarized it very well. And let's emphasize the fact that he is a true insider in the industry.

Personally, I have glow, gas, electric, and am building my first turbine. I will continue to have room for 2-stroke glow for a very long time. IMHO, the 4-stroke glow is the biggest "loser" in this era, as it does not win by much, if at all, in the power-to-weight department against most comparably sized 4-stroke gas engines right now. This will likely only get worse over time. The 2-stroke glow, on the other hand, remains untouchable in that department within a certain engine size window. Yes, electrics are up there with them, if not better, but the appeal of internal combustion goes well beyond just basic performance measurements. Also, the simplicity of a 2-stroke engine remains most enthralling - at least to me and many others I know. Again here, the 4-stroke glow does not have a lot to offer, as of course it is not that simple.

Long live the fast and screaming 2-stroker...

exocet-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

I think there will always be glow. Personally, I have begun flying Cox .010s, .020s and .049s in RC planes. I know electrics would be much more reliable but that isn't why I fly them. I fly them because, when I go to the field or go to the club meeting with my Guillow's Zero powered by a .049 or my Ken Willard Pageboy powered by a .010, it will attract attention. It is different. I have bigger planes and engines. I have electrics. What I really enjoy, though, is when I have something that is out of the ordinary. I like to be different. Its great that this hobby has room for everyone, including us who are 'different'. As long as I can find the ingredients to make glow fuel, I'll fly glow fuel planes. Just because.

Tim

oliveDrab

I could care less about glow motors.....sold my last one (an O.S. .75AX 2 stroke) last week. Am happy as a clam with my .60 and 1.20 sized electric planes. Clean, fast, reliable. If I ever get bored with electric I'll try gas.

I don't have any electric foamies and probably never will.

[email protected]

My Feedback: (1)

just get what you feel like and be happy

cubcrasher

My Feedback: (6)

+ 1

Bill G

I love scale modeling, and instantly caught onto the traditional hand building and scratch building of the older hobbyists. The glow engines that they used did not catch on however. The reasons in my case, are that a common glow engine is not exactly a scale representation of a gasoline inline or radial engine. I have geared electrics that actually sound more like their counterparts, than glow. I also found the electrics to be easier to manage, especially when maidening handbuilt, non-proven planes. Foam and glow don't seem to go hand in hand also. I actually got away from a foam kick and back into being a balsa purist, but the foamy ARF/RTF will definitely continue as a mainstay.

followed by gasoline conversions of all the old glow engines
That's a good point there. Gasoline ignition engines have advantages, as well as being more scale, in that they burn gasoline and have an ignition system. The attraction of the glow engine I believe will primarily be to those who like to continue vintage traditions. I would think that if anyone newer to the hobby would want to do that, I would be one of them. It still hasn't attracted me however, although I commonly build from 50+ year old plans. If I do ever fly a glow plane, it will be when I built a vintage design that was known specifically as being a glow plane.

RichardGee

My Feedback: (156)

As long as there are drag races, "glow fuel" will always be available. Some race cars run on methanol, some on nitro, some on both. That means these fuels are available in massive quantities.
While the hobby industry may wean itself off of selling pre-mixed glow fuel, any group of glow enthusiasts can purchase quantities of methanol, nitro, and castor or synthetic oil and mix their own fuel.

I do not see glow ever going completely away, but the numbers of choices will certainly diminish as manufacturers stop producing them.
But heck, IF glow were REALLY going the way of the buggy whip, how and why could/would a manufacturer like FOX still produce them?
Look how many different glow engines O.S. produces... Super Tiger, MECOA, etc, etc.

I fully understand and appreciate the benefits of electric and gas, but glow is so integral to model airplanes, I think it will always be around in some form.... at least I HOPE SO

jlsimon

My Feedback: (164)

Interesting discussion. But it got me thinking. I think there's a bigger concern than the demise of glow fueled engines. Its about the hobby in general. On the whole I feel its in a slow death spiral.

Today's generation of kids are focused on digital formats. Social skills are evolving towards an isolated individual. Why call or visit when you can text, right? Your digital life is becoming more and more widespread and commonplace. Its importance starting rival other areas of people's lives. With younger folk this is amplified. This trend is accelerating so it will only continue to grow. At the same time, there is a general lack of interest in this hobby as a life-long pursuit as there are few long term expectations with the hobby anymore. For example, you buy a foam airplane or copter, you slap it together in a hour, you charge and fly till it crashes, tape or glue it together and then do it again until you tire of it. So like many other things in our world, it seems consumers and manufacturers have made this into more of a disposable hobby. How can anyone hope to make this into a lifetime pursuit if the mindset is a passing interest in a shiny toy until something else or better comes along. As a result the general interest in the hobby as we know it will continue to slow as the current flyers continue to die off quicker than new people in it for the long term replace them.

Technology will continue to improve, refine and enhance the simulator experience to a point of mimicking the flight experience far beyond that of a model. As global population grows, land use will be limited or too expensive to use as a place for flying. Flying spaces in the east and south will become increasingly rare. The hobby in the midwest and west will be strongest and this may become more of a regional hobby because of it. Global climates will yield fewer trees to harvest balsa. As other woods become more rare as well, any remaining balsa will replace them causing balsa to only get more expensive. That will put additional demand on foam and plastics driving their costs up even more. Living space will diminish as well, leaving less room to store airplanes. With the rising oceans, the coasts will lose land further compounding the problem. Oil will continue to rise in cost. This will impact costs of foam, plastics, wiring, radios etc. plus the cost to ship them.

The generation that's currently reached retirement age was screwed over during this last financial collapse. They lost their savings and future, so they now will work later in life and will have less money/time for hobbies like this. Those same financial problems have created ripple effects all the way down the generations. Kids getting out of college cant get a job, thus delaying their lives and any possible chance of becoming interested in a hobby. We are getting older as a country. Not enough babies being born to replace the older folks who are dying. We are living longer but in the not to distant future, there wont be enough young people in the work force to maintain the country's infrastructure as we will need it let alone continue this hobby. So as that generation dies off, no one will be building either. No demand, no kits, no arfs, no glow engines, etc. All these effects are cumulative and worsen the the other.

As a builder, I've noticed a few new flyers to this hobby that will bring out there shiny new ARF to the field. They spent all winter on the simulator and in the spring, can fly the most amazing 3D pattern. But if they crack a wing or damage the fuse, they are completely lost in how to repair it. Then I realized the notion of building something from scratch or solving a problem yourself will be a lost art as well. The older generations had to come up with their own solutions as you couldn't buy the part or piece off the shelf. Now we demand that everything be pre-packaged, pre-built and pre-glued for us or we don't bother. We are losing something there.

That all said, and barring any catastrophic act of terror carried out by an RC aircraft and depending on the economy, shifts in population, global climate, etc, I'd say this hobby as we know it has maybe 40 years left.

10-20 years, stick built kits, most glow engines, balsa will be gone or very expensive. The cheapest ARFs will be coming from Africa as china and asia's rising standard of living will make it less competitive globally. ARF choices in general will be fewer as they will be fewer, larger build runs to recoup the increased cost involved to make and ship. The AMA will have a new SIG focused on simulation pilots. It will eventually become the largest group within the AMA. The AMA printed magazine will be gone (no surprises there). There will be a steady decline in places to fly. Places that do permit will be heavily restricted to what you can fly. Pilots may end up sharing airplanes due to the high costs to own and operate. Home Loan? Car Loan? RC Airplane loans anyone? Thefts will go up for planes and radios. Pilots wont be able to make major repairs to their damaged aircraft due to two reasons. One, the general lack of skill and knowledge to repair it and a preference to send to a repair facility (new industry emerging). Two, the new materials and technology ARFs will have to be made out of will not be repairable by the average person. Luckily, technology will lessen the amount of crashes and therefore repairs fewer.

20-40 years, The hobby will not be what it is now. Any ARFs will largely be made from a new resource like yet undiscovered genetically modified plant material. To fly anything other than the equivalent of "leafies", you will probably need to be licensed by the government. The cost will be expensive and prohibitive. Builders will be a rare activity done by a very small and old proportion of the hobby. Hobby shops are long gone.

The majority of flying will largely be virtual. But the virtual experience will be incredible. You will rent airspace from a domain. The airspace will be fashioned from satellite imaging of your home or any place in the world/space. Or maybe you want to fly on the set of the latest action movie of the day? For those still into a social vibe like a club, there will be hangars like cyber-cafes to fly on large screens. But they will go away once everyone can afford the room size monitors in their living spaces. There will be a new interest in building virtual aircraft. "Great Hanger 9 Planes" or "Horizico" will be selling you Mike McConville Jr. virtual aircraft only. Flying clubs will all be online and virtual. Fly-ins will all be virtual. Live tournaments like Top Gun will be rare. The few traditional clubs left will be very expensive to join and be part of. The AMA will fall under the variant of the FCC of the future controlling the internet.

Sorry to be so pessimistic about things. This is all just my opinion. But its just the nature of things. In the late 1800's/early 1900's, at least one person in a family played the piano or some musical instrument. They had to if they wanted music. There used to be sheet music stores, musical instrument repair stores etc. music stores and instructors everywhere. Bands and orchestras in every town and hamlet. But along comes, radio and then TV, stereos and Ipods. Now everyone plays Guitar Hero and maybe you have an uncle that used to play the clarinet.

So given the current indicators of the way things are going, I don't think its that big a leap of imagination to see where it is heading. I hope it takes longer than 40 years, but it will most assuredly evolve to something other than what it is now.

And for the record, I like to build 1/4 scale gas/glow powered scale airplanes. I like to tinker with Zenoah and Quadra engines and love the sound of a Saito four-stroke. I don't care too much for electric powered aircraft but I do have a electric Sopwith Camel I fool around with.

Lastly, based on typical life expectancy, I figure I have maybe 20 years left to build and fly. So that's what I plan to do till life dictates otherwise. So as fun as thought provoking as this conversation is, I would like to suggest the option of spending less time worrying about things like this and spend more building and/or flying.

Thanks for your interest. Regards

ssautter

The initial cost of going gas is still a bit high for me, in this lousy economy.

I still fly nitro....

sturmovik60

I'll give up my glow when they pry it from my cold dead fingers. LOL I fly both gas and glow and love them both. I dont care for electric planes much, nothing against them just not my cup of tea. I like to hear my engines.

[email protected]

My Feedback: (1)

i get 1/2 gallon gas>> 2.00>> 2oz oil>> 50 cents>> fly for 1 1/2 months on that and have fun and i also have nitro engines

Hossfly

The above quote, Italics and Bold, is one of the nicest statements of many threads and posts plus it is illustrative of the personality that all of us would do well should we adopt that point of view, " .... to put down any one part of it because it does not appeal to me is just wrong in my book." How nice that at least one individual can stand up and be counted as one that does not attempt to enslave others to HIS specific likes and dislikes. HOORAY FOR YOU, MR. RAPTURE BOY. You have made my day and it was already a good day!

Gents, the world constantly changes. So do we. I probably have a 150 glow engines from many NIB, down to partial from my original Thor ignition to current new engines on the market such as Revolution. I have some 80+ kits, and a number of partial kits, from very old rubber power to current ARFs, plus much wood and stuff to build many more, and lots of rubber for rubber power, Timers for FF, and yet at 77.5 years I doubt very much I will get it done. []
Heck, my first engine was a Thor, cheap as cheap can get, and it ran on gasoline and 70 weight oil. My collection has a Thor, a number of spark ignition - new and used - from 099 Ardens to a umber of .65s some used, some still NIB. I have a considerable amount of fuel, plus 10 gallons of pure methanol and oil is easy to come by.

So from an old fellow, don't waste time planning for tomorrow, enjoy today. For example many clubs are setting up for AMA's "National Model Aviation Day" and I suggest you join the crowd that 4th Saturday (Aug 17th) from today. Check in with your Local Club and ask what you can do to help.

Gotta' get to my workshop and get something going for the kids that will be there. Ya'll come see us, or whomever is in your area.

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

Awesome thread. In one of the fields I fly from one of the rules is electrics only until 9 AM. Noise and neighbors, ethics and good manners.

Some time ago electrics were only small foamies, nowadays they come in all sizes.

Im trying to get away from glow and fly only electrics and gas but for some reason cant let go of my Saito 100 4 stroke

H5606

Wow! Looks like it struck a nerve!

I like the reassuring, optimistic view expressed by RCKen however, I rather sadly believe the future lies in how jlsimon said it best...

I'm just over the hill so if my eyesight, reflexes, and overall health can remain stable enough for me support and fly glow powered models (small and large) another nineteen years without decline, I'll be happy. At some point I suppose I'll have to resort to geezer stands to start-up engines but for now I'm proud to say I can still get off the ground without causing a hernia.

abelard

Nostalgia: the process by which our view of the past gets rosier as memory of the details fades...;-)

OliverJacob

My Feedback: (12)

I think glow engines will outlive most of us. And I am still in my 30's. I have glow engines from Cox to 1.20 FS, some gassers and some 50ish and 90ish electrics, they all have their place in the hobby.
Some planes just call for a 2 stroke glow engine, and I refuse to fly small foamies.

These engines will be around as long as there is a market for them. We are the market - they will make what we ask for.

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

For myself: No noise, no smell no fun.

koastrc

Ken is a sharp dude and he speaks from facts. The electric crowd is a mixed bag. Some have never flown anything but electrics. Some have went to electrics from glo. One of the things I see these days is some going from electric to glo. Yes it is happening. Electric, glo and gas is part of the sport. Model aviators are a very unpredictable bunch. I will go on and side with Ken on this issue, if it is a is a issue, they will all be around for a long time.

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

JMO
There are probably millions of glow engines out there...and even if "they" stopped making new ones, the previously owned ones will still be available for many years...

As has been mentioned previously, the ingredients for making glow fuel will be around for the rest of our lifetimes, most likely...so even if the ready-mix stuff went away, you can still mix your own.

I have a collection of glow engines that would last me a lifetime...even if I live to be 150.. If a person were really concerned, he / she should stock up on some..."previously owned " ones I mean, and learn to dis-assemble and R-N-R them...then "pickle" some of 'em for use later on.

Personally, I don't care a Rat's fuzzy behind what others use to power their model airplanes...but I do see more electric and gas power these days. I have Glow, Gas and Electric powered stuff, but prefer glow, probably because that's what I was brought up on during the 70's.

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

I'll never give up my glow engines. 

countilaw

I was just saying that today the millinium child just wants to buy an electric foamy where he can just take it out of the box and fly it.

Most hobbyists today fall into that category. They just want to fly and take no pride in something they created, and holy smokes if they have to clean the glow fuel off the plane after they are through playing with it.

Ienjoy all aspects of the hobby, from drawing the plans, to cutting the wood to the silk and dope finish. I enjoy working with my glow engines when they need it.

As for spending time with family, My wife (now deceased) and my kids (a boy and a girl) would go to the flying field with me on the weekends and to contests all throughout the summer. My kids learned to fly and my wife was my caller, spotter, and helper. My kids learned to build also. So we had plenty of time together.

Ithink people that say that they like spending time with their family or they are too busy to build are just using that as an excuse not to build.

They use that excuse about spending time with their family when it's time to cut the grass at the club field. We all know who they are.

But that's just my opinion.

Frank

jessiej

I do understand the clean up problem, I enjoyed another of my leisure activities today and had to clean a bunch of fish, Dang! Before long it will be a dAnged pod deer. I wish I could just wipe a little oil off of them. At least my family will help and we will have fun.

Jess