Notices
The Clubhouse If it doesn't fit in any other category and is about general RC stuff then post it here at the Clubhouse.

Handwriting on the wall?

Old 08-01-2013, 02:48 AM
  #51  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,826
Received 17 Likes on 15 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?


ORIGINAL: H5606

To avoid another complaining thread, back out now... Or, is this thread unnecessarily whining about useless gloom and doom?

Short version:

Is the demise of the glow engine close at hand? Are glow plugs and methanol/nitro/castor fuels far behind? What about parts support? Will I be eventually be stuck with useless engines or expensive paperweights? Is anyone else concerned?

Long version:

Within the last ten years, I decided I needed to begin hoarding glow engines. Little by little, I noticed a decline in glow engine availability from usual sources. New .049~.061's., .10's, .15's, .20's from various mfg's had already disappeared when I really started to notice. I started collecting .25's when HP restocked their Magnum line. .40~.46's are what I desire most so I got some of those too. Now, panic is setting in as I peruse the big three vendors in search for possible large glow powerplants for various projects. Small and large two and four stroke engines are beginning to disappear. Electrics were slowly eating away the ground below me and now, gas is beginning to fall off the shelves above me... What's going on here? I remember once reading some modeling publication where the author considered the two stroke glow engine as something like: ''the ultimate in simplicity and an engineering masterpiece''. I have some electrics but find them unsatisfying. I'm about to try gas but I think my principal desire will always be glow. I like the ringing in my ears, the smell of burnt castor and methanol permeating my clothes, and cleaning the ''chicken fat'' off my airplane when I'm done flying. You don't get that pleasure with gas or electric. Would today's version of a Hanno Prettner flying to victory in a world class event with a glow engine bring back a resurgence of glow engine development? I know, I know, - probably not; they'd just do it with electric.

I love all aspects of the hobby, but the truth is, glow/no glow, I think we will survive...[8D]

Bob
Old 08-01-2013, 03:40 AM
  #52  
Rob2160
Senior Member
 
Rob2160's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?


ORIGINAL: countilaw


I was just saying that today the millinium child just wants to buy an electric foamy where he can just take it out of the box and fly it.

Most hobbyists today fall into that category. They just want to fly and take no pride in something they created, and holy smokes if they have to clean the glow fuel off the plane after they are through playing with it.

Ienjoy all aspects of the hobby, from drawing the plans, to cutting the wood to the silk and dope finish. I enjoy working with my glow engines when they need it.

As for spending time with family, My wife (now deceased) and my kids (a boy and a girl) would go to the flying field with me on the weekends and to contests all throughout the summer. My kids learned to fly and my wife was my caller, spotter, and helper. My kids learned to build also. So we had plenty of time together.

Ithink people that say that they like spending time with their family or they are too busy to build are just using that as an excuse not to build.

They use that excuse about spending time with their family when it's time to cut the grass at the club field. We all know who they are.

But that's just my opinion.

Frank
Yes it is your opinion, but as others have posted here. People should be free to enjoy this hobby / activity / sport in whatever way they choose without being criticised for it. If you enjoy building more power to you.. I don't enjoy it, but I would never criticise anyone that does.

You are right about the Millenium child.. but let me ask you a few questions.. and answer honestly,

1. Do you own a Microwave oven? or do you still chop your wood and cook on an open flame?
2. Do you send emails to friends and colleagues or do you write on paper and walk to the post office?
3. Did you buy your RC radio or did you build it yourself?
4. Do you buy your meat from the Supermarket or do you go out and hunt it yourself and earn gratifcation from catching your own food?
5. Do you have a washing machine or do you enjoy the satisfaction of handwashing every pair of socks you own?

Technology has changed all aspects of our life.. and there are many ways that your own life is more convenient as a result.

Real pilots learn to FLY.. they don't have to build their own aircraft..

Why do RC Pilots have to build their own aircraft when there are so many options available now?

There are also plenty of options for those that enjoy building and more power to them.. I admire someone who can build a beautiful aircraft from scratch.

Does a musician have to build his own piano? Guitar? Trumpet? No they are the tools of his hobby.. If your hobby is flying RC planes, who says you MUST build your own aircraft?

I built several Balsa aircraft in the 80s when there was no other option. Now there are plenty of alternatives.

I never want to build another Balsa plane in my life.. but I do enjoy constructing Helicopter Kits.. I own 13 x 450 Helicopters and 2 x 550 size because the construction process became almost as addictive as the flying..

I agree with you 100% that most kids don't have the, patience, skill or desire to build a Balsa plane from scratch.

Trying to get them into this hobby that way simply will not work..

However, ARF, Bind and Fly and PNP kits may give them the "instant gratification" they need to get off the Video games and outdoors and into this great Hobby.

I don't have a problem with that. and I am certainly not going to criticise people if they don't want to build an aircraft from scratch.. Displaying that condescending attitude to newbies is the best way to guarantee kids will avoid this hobby completely.

There are exception as I do know several teenagers who love this hobby and do have the skill and patience to build..

Here is the Instant gratification that comes from building a 450 helicopter..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU4w7IT-1do[/youtube]

And yes,I completely agree with you, nothing beats the satisfaction of watching your own creation fly...

Here is the maiden of the helicopter built in the above video.. (My flying was very timid 3 years ago as I was then a heli newbie)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9X0rYnHEDY[/youtube]


Old 08-01-2013, 05:26 AM
  #53  
turbo.gst
My Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 764
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

This hobby is so great that it will survive. I like glow the best, and have taken on mixing my own glow fuel to make sure I will always be able to fly them. I have over 200 engines. so I don't have to worry about availability. I also have an expanding number of gas and electrics that definitely have a place in my hobby. Building / designing my own is every bit as much a part of my hobby as the power plant. I pickup kits / plans to make sure I always will have that as well. I have balsa everywhere to make sure I can build when ever the mood hits me. I think each one of us have the ability to make sure your individual hobby ( whatever that is to you) can continue with just a little fore site.
Old 08-01-2013, 06:20 AM
  #54  
scale only 4 me
My Feedback: (158)
 
scale only 4 me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Avon Lake, OH
Posts: 10,379
Received 51 Likes on 49 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?


ORIGINAL: Rob2160
ORIGINAL: countilaw
I was just saying that today the millinium child just wants to buy an electric foamy where he can just take it out of the box and fly it.
I agree with you 100% that most kids don't have the, patience, skill or desire to build a Balsa plane from scratch.
Trying to get them into this hobby that way simply will not work..

I've been in this hobby since 1975,,, that hasn't changed a bit, it was true when I started and is true today, what's changed is ARFs make our hobby available to those people. Most kids haven't changed,, what's changed is how much other stuff they can get in to besides model airplanes. All the years I've been in the hobby there have always been guys (adults) that didn't build either, they bought built planes or had guys build them for them,,

Making general statments are generally inacurate,
Old 08-01-2013, 07:42 AM
  #55  
zacharyR
My Feedback: (5)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

SLIMMMERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 08-01-2013, 08:07 AM
  #56  
jessiej
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: no city, AL
Posts: 2,613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

Rob, I think you just restated my point about hobby/sport/activity. I find that I seldom have any desire to fly at a club field any more because I have little to no interest ready-made, electric model aircraft. Nothing wrong with the refs, just not my thing. OTOH,
I enjoy immensely my ready-made fly rods, motorcycles guns,ATVs, etc., though I consider them an activity. Reloading of ammunition or fly-tying I think is more a hobby.

In this great land we can make up our own definitions.

Jess
Old 08-01-2013, 08:18 AM
  #57  
HoundDog
My Feedback: (49)
 
HoundDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Apache Junction AZ. WI 0WI8
Posts: 4,501
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

Poppy Cock .... it may not be as popular for many reasons, (lazy people that need instant gratification) but then people still do Free Flight and Control line.
Old 08-01-2013, 09:09 AM
  #58  
Luchnia
My Feedback: (21)
 
Luchnia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Amelia, VA
Posts: 2,079
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

Much of what is posted has been stated many times, however it is often good to rehash it and to each his own of course. I flew some electrics, many glows, and have moved into gassers. I can see a place for electrics to have something quick to pull out and fly, although I don't care for the hassle of electrics by having to charge and carry all the extra batteries - a pain in the you know what.

I was one of those folks that said I would never leave glow! Guess what, my glow planes are gathering dust now. I cannot even bring myself to take one to the field anymore and let a gassers set at home. I am getting ready to chunk the rest of my glow planes and put another gasser in the fleet. I do plan to keep one glow plane just to have it around - not sure why though.

The cost of glow fuel alone is totally on full tilt and is simply not economical at all anymore - good riddence. In the last year I have three gallons of glow fuel sitting and not in use. Granted it will take some time to recoup my cost of gas planes, but I am on my way and already seeing a better return on my investment. Another cool thing is that they have a lot of small gassers now and they fly really sweet and are extremely economical.

I was out flying with a guy this past weekend and he was flying an AW Extra with a DLE 20cc. He checked his fuel after a full flight and he could not believe it! He was so stoked because there was hardly any fuel used and he kept commenting about how clean his plane was. I could see he was hooked on gas planes now and I guess it shows I like the gassers at this point in my RC life

Old 08-01-2013, 09:15 AM
  #59  
cloudancer03
My Feedback: (22)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: palm harbor, FL
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

Rob said it best" there is not right or wrong way"....I have been flying rc since 1971.I cant even recount how many planes I built and crashed.I still love the exhaust fumes from a nitro 2 stroke.but I will admit to flying gas and electric.I sold all my 2 stroke motors. I have retired and downsized my home.artritis in my fingers makes building more difficult.so I fly electrics forsimplicty and no mess.I still have a case of 15 percent fuel.I kept my satios and have a beautful pt 19 with a satio 180. I have a wildhare 260 with a dle 30 and a lot of electric 3dh planes.nito is truly not needed for 2 strokes.I suspect glow will be around but not in big demand.I feel the move to gas is good as nitro fuels are so expensive and reqire special hazmat handling. Etanol free gas is readily available for my dle at a fraction of the cost of nitro.thanks to lipos electric will continue to grow.given how hard itis to find flying sites in urban areas eletric is a god send.the newer lipos charge fast and easy.

Admittedly the only complaint or pet peeve I have and its just me is flying foam.I hate the stuff but its everywhere and if it means opening the hobby to more young people I am all for it.but I am old school so foam is not a turn on for my tastes. I think the hobby is doing great and I do love seeing an old pattern tearing up the skies burning nitro, just wish they made a room spray that nice.
Old 08-01-2013, 09:21 AM
  #60  
scale only 4 me
My Feedback: (158)
 
scale only 4 me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Avon Lake, OH
Posts: 10,379
Received 51 Likes on 49 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

Only one glow left in my stable,,, almost switched it to a DLE 20 this year

I get tired of paying $20 a galon and having to bring paper towels and windex [:'(]
Old 08-01-2013, 09:43 AM
  #61  
countilaw
 
countilaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

Rob, A yes to each of your questions. And I agree, technology has changed major aspects of our lives. When I started building model air planes back in 58, we had three types of glue. Ambroids, Elmers and Testors Plastic Cement. CA was not even thought of yet as was 5 min epoxy. We had only one type of "Hot Fuel Proof" paint, Butyrate Dope. Nitrate Dope was and is not fuel proof. We only had two types of covering, silk span and silk. I don't used Ambroids much anymore, because CA is so much faster. I still use silk and dope on some planes, but mostly Monokote.

I only have glow engines and probably will as long as they are available. Ihope to get some larger gas engines someday.


Iam afraid that when China comes to the realization that they can charge more money for labor like Japan did, the cheap ARF and RTF will become too expensive for the noobie as well as the rest of us. Ithink you will see kits coming back on the scene.

That could be in 5 or 10 years, but it's coming.

Frank
Old 08-01-2013, 11:02 AM
  #62  
rexbirk
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Gahanna, OH
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

I have all three power sources. I must admit that I have not flown one of my Glo Engines in a year and a half since going gas. I still like glo but it is messy and at times not aasreliable as gas.

 I fly electrics sometimes but do agree they don't have much personalty. I guess because of the lack of smell and sound. Electrics do perform though. You can not argue that.

What is sad to me is that the tuning knowledge many of us older guys have is not passing on to the young. With that said I can see why electric is growing so rapidly.


Old 08-01-2013, 11:06 AM
  #63  
raptureboy
 
raptureboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kempton PA
Posts: 2,621
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

O.K some of youare starting to whine like an old 2 stroke with bad bearingsget out there now and do some flying and drag your kids, grandkids and neighbors kids out with you before your engines seize up! Should of seen the lipo fire we had at the field last night, you won't get that with your old glow enginesdarn thing just burst into flames all by itself sitting on the guys tailgate about 30 min after charging it. More exciting than looking for the glow spitfire in the weeds another guy lost.
Old 08-01-2013, 11:19 AM
  #64  
rexbirk
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Gahanna, OH
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?


ORIGINAL: raptureboy

O.K some of youare starting to whine like an old 2 stroke with bad bearingsget out there now and do some flying and drag your kids, grandkids and neighbors kids out with you before your engines seize up! Should of seen the lipo fire we had at the field last night, you won't get that with your old glow enginesdarn thing just burst into flames all by itself sitting on the guys tailgate about 30 min after charging it. More exciting than looking for the glow spitfire in the weeds another guy lost.
Some of us are getting old!We are supposed to whine.

Old 08-01-2013, 11:44 AM
  #65  
JollyPopper
My Feedback: (6)
 
JollyPopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mountain Home, AR
Posts: 2,684
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

Yes, I have earned the right to whine.
Old 08-01-2013, 12:37 PM
  #66  
countilaw
 
countilaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

Me too!! I've paid my dues and got the T-Shirt.

Frank
Old 08-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #67  
Bigshark
 
Bigshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 422
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

There are people still making cox glow heads and diesel heads and companies like Lazer and Jett are making really interesting stuff. If anything, cheap glow engines might dry up and cheap glow fuel might become as fun to find as model diesel.

There will always be glow though. We just may be looked at like people who build with sticks and tissue or control line flyers or people who paint figurines or stamp collectors.......
Old 08-01-2013, 02:02 PM
  #68  
4X4FABGUY
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: KENNEWICK, WA
Posts: 44
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

As long as my planes is in the air I don't care too much how its powered, nitro, gas, electric, or wind. All have their merits and I enjoy them all. For me convienence has taken over a bit. When I get off work and want to get in an hour of fly time before dark, The electrics rule. I have a field across the street I can fly in and I carry my stuff over there to fly, closed gate but I can walk in anytime. With my glow planes I need to pack a ton of stuff over there. Like The plane, radio, fuel, starter, battery for starter, glow ignitor, ect. I also have to make sure all the batterys are charged. I hate to walk all the way over to find my glow ignitor is dead. Or the starter battery. Its funny, you need to charge more batterys to fly nitro then you do to fly electrics. To fly my electrics I only need my radio and plane! If I want a bunch more air time I slip an extra battery in my pocket. When I get home I just hang the plane on the wall. No after run prep needed, and its ready to go anytime. Thats hard to beat for ease of use. In the last 5 years though my nitro stuff moves less and less. Planes, boats and cars. Now I seem to use the electrics and gas most. I do love my nitros and will always have some, I love to tinker on them. The gains one can get from a modifing a 2 stroke are amazing. I learned about port timing, tuned pipes, bigger carbs, higher comperssion and all the stuff that goes on inside a 2 stroke. The first time I modded an engine I was blown away by the power increases I got with a dremel tool. All that is lost with electrics. Sure you can tweek them on your laptop at the field to change all sorts of things but its just not the same. I know I would miss the little glow engines if they ever went away.
Old 08-01-2013, 02:10 PM
  #69  
freddy s
Member
My Feedback: (33)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: n. las vegas, NV
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?


My local flying field,which is operated by the city parks and recreation dept.Has bowed to local pressure and high price lawyers,has seen fit to cut the hours available to fuel powered aircraft(glow and gas)by 50%.Seven hours a day have been eliminated,no flying on sundays or holidays.However electric powered aircraft can fly everyday from 8am to 8 pm totally unfettered.As this is a public facility,requiring an inexpensive park pass and an ama card,there is no supervision and you fly on your own and take your chances.I am unable to fly during the allowed morning hours and have always done my flying during the mid afternoon.All my planes are .60 to 1.20 size glow,none of which were designed with electric in mind,therefore making conversion to electric wholly impractical besides prohibitely expensive.I am retired and this was to be my pleasure,now it seems I either go electric of forget it altogether.Please excuse my childish rant but I just needed to blow off a little steam.Thanks for your patience.
Old 08-01-2013, 02:18 PM
  #70  
[email protected]
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: hemet , CA
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

have you tried other fields
Old 08-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #71  
freddy s
Member
My Feedback: (33)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: n. las vegas, NV
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?


There are 2 other fields suitable for flying,the closest is a 70 mile round trip,followed by another that is 110 mile round trip.Still looking though.
Old 08-01-2013, 02:36 PM
  #72  
llindsey1965
Senior Member
My Feedback: (-1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: AugustaGA
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

I HATE ELECTRICS , LOVE MY LARGE GAS ENGINES , I HATE ELECTRIC IT HAS DESTROYED OUR HOBBY !!!!!

Old 08-01-2013, 03:00 PM
  #73  
H5606
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: TN
Posts: 924
Received 41 Likes on 40 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

As the OP, I never intended the thread to be regarded as a comparison of power forms for aircraft as I too fly all forms with the current exception of gasoline, turbines, and rubber power.

Although glow is where my roots are, I've had the personal exposure to the improvement of electrics over the years with electric can motors and nicads in a Kyosho Etude (remember that one?) to a couple of Zagi speed 400's with Nicads and Nimh's to a GWS Lite Stick with early Kokam's when I knew nothing of balancing LiPo's to several active Parkzone airplanes that I fly today...

They're lovely and I love all airplanes but I can't see flying a .40 size Hots, Flying Machine, or Kougar or say a .45 to .50 size P-47 or even a .35 size C/L Nobler or 1/2A profile model without a slimmer in the nose. We all know these kinds of airplanes HAVE to make noise and smell wonderful.

Likewise, how does say SIG's like AMA 424 or SPA continue to operate without the glow engine to support it? A Quickie 500 or .60 size classic pattern ship with a gas engine or electric motor just ain't right.

Old 08-01-2013, 04:39 PM
  #74  
oliveDrab
 
oliveDrab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Georgetown, KY
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?


ORIGINAL: freddy s


My local flying field,which is operated by the city parks and recreation dept.Has bowed to local pressure and high price lawyers,has seen fit to cut the hours available to fuel powered aircraft(glow and gas)by 50%.Seven hours a day have been eliminated,no flying on sundays or holidays.However electric powered aircraft can fly everyday from 8am to 8 pm totally unfettered.As this is a public facility,requiring an inexpensive park pass and an ama card,there is no supervision and you fly on your own and take your chances.I am unable to fly during the allowed morning hours and have always done my flying during the mid afternoon.All my planes are .60 to 1.20 size glow,none of which were designed with electric in mind,therefore making conversion to electric wholly impractical besides prohibitely expensive.I am retired and this was to be my pleasure,now it seems I either go electric of forget it altogether.Please excuse my childish rant but I just needed to blow off a little steam.Thanks for your patience.
Do you have a .60-sized trainer type plane you wouldn't mind converting to electric? You'd need to buy an electric motor, ESC, Lipo battery, safety switch. Assume you went with a Rimfire .60 motor($110), a Castle Creations ESC ($120), a 5 or 6-cell Lipo ($50 - $100), some type of safety switch (I use an MPI #6970 or #6972), a Lipo battery charger and a power supply. Well..........I see what you mean about the expense. Depending on what type of components you buy, you could easily spend $500.
Old 08-01-2013, 04:50 PM
  #75  
oliveDrab
 
oliveDrab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Georgetown, KY
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Handwriting on the wall?

You could buy from Hobby King and probably spend a lot less. (Dang it - I wish I could edit my previous post!)

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.