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S-Bus and Jets

Old 10-08-2011, 12:53 PM
  #26  
Heiner Juenkering
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Hello,

i´m from germany and we are using S-Bus System since more than one year without any problems. Attached you will find some picture of the installation from my Jetlegend L-39.

www.facebook.com/photo.php
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www.facebook.com/photo.php
www.facebook.com/photo.php
www.facebook.com/photo.php


if any question, don´t hesitate nad get in contact


best regards

Heiner


Old 10-08-2011, 02:02 PM
  #27  
FalconWings
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

You had me at "you need to buy a decoder....."

Do you need a jammer to go with that?
Old 10-30-2011, 05:24 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

I've just found this on the Emcotec website and thought it may be of interest to SBUS users.

It is similar to the SBD decoders but has 4 outputs and also appears to have the ability to change the servo parameters (e.g. reverse/end points etc) which I understand the SBD can't do.

It could effectively be used as 2 matchboxes in one unit (if using an SBUS receiver) which will be very helpful for me to free up a couple of channels.
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:14 PM
  #29  
Joe Dirr
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Mark,

I’ve got a Power Box Royal (RRS) going in a 1:7 scale Yellow F-18. I’m currently using a 12FG, but will soon upgrade to the 18MZ.

My goal is to have redundant receivers using the new R7008SB utilizing the S-Bus telemetry features.

Q - Is the Power Box Royal RRS suitable/compatible with the R7008SB?

Q - Could you give me your recommendations regarding the wiring configuration?

Incidentally, my hope is to use the S-Bus strictly for telemetry features and have enough conventional channels for the primary flight controls, gear and brakes etc. In other words, I’m not planning on using S-Bus servos necessarily.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Joe
Old 04-04-2012, 06:30 PM
  #30  
indubitably
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Still hoping to see the simplicity of a straight S-Bus system. With the telemetry, im sure you could watch the reciever voltage and chech the surgaces with some resistance (holding the surfaces) and watching the voltage. With A123 packs, would the wires get hot above 3amps, or would the voltage drop significantly first? Maybe we could try that, but hoping someone has already done so. So far we have power boxes, but that doesnt allow for the simplicity we had hoped for. Will Futaba come out with a beefy system like the JR Powersafe (1222)? I know some of us have asked for it. Were told it was overkill, and not necessary. But then no one is "going for it" with straight S-bus, either. Im talking plane here as i have no sponsorships. I just bought the 18MZ, and would love to change over to it. Somebody help me.
John
Old 04-05-2012, 06:00 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Hi Joe .. hope all is well with you!

I also just got the 18MZ, I've been flying it using my 6014 RX in FASST Multi mode on my R54.

Also, I am doing my first S-BUS jet .. a Skymaster T-38. Since it's a smaller jet, I won't use a powerbox (or clone .. fwiw, I really like the Smart Fly stuff), just the "vanilla" Futaba S-BUS gear and one RX. It's about the largest jet I'd do without some sort of battery backup/regulator/line driver system.

For larger planes (I have a BVM UB on the way) the best source I can find is EMCOTEC in Germany .. they have a powerbox-like device that looks outstanding, has large beefy S-BUS feed cables, multiple RX with selection of best, dual power supplies etc. Check it out at: [link=http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vendo.php?shop=k_emcotec_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=RF1660&t=861&c=1786&p=1786]http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vendo.php?shop=k_emcotec_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=RF1660&t=861&c=1786&p=1786[/link]

I have ordered from EMCOTEC before, takes a week or two to get here .. good service.

I am hoping that the US Futaba distributor will wake up and smell the coffee here .. the main users who would benefit from S-BUS are the large 3D aerobat guys, and big jets .. neither community will accept skinny little standard wires and no reduncancy .. the EMCOTEC unit addresses all of that. Maybe Todd from Dreamworks would import them. He's kind of a JR fanboy though (grin!)

If I order one, I'll post a review .. but I think it is exactly what's needed here.

Dave McQ
Old 04-05-2012, 08:35 AM
  #32  
jzuniga
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Good thread... I too just got on the Sbus bandwagon and am experimenting with diff setups. So far, straight a123 to power 5 8411's and 1 8711 servo in a 25% Yak works flawless..
Next test dual a123's in a 35% carden, then on to my jets...

Z
Old 04-05-2012, 05:37 PM
  #33  
Joe Dirr
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Hi Dave,

Long time no talk; I am well, thank you; hope you are too!

In keeping with my goal of having redundant R7008SB receivers I believe I can make this work with my existing PowerBox Royal.

If I understand the capabilities of this PowerBox correctly (not 100% sure that I do) it has a total of 7 output channels, 5 of which I can group up to 4 servos/channel, although typically, I’ll only need to group 2 servos/channel e.g. ailerons, elevators, rudders and flaps etc. That should leave me with 3 output channels from the R7008SB receiver, which could control the throttle and gear and wheel brakes. All of which being powered and control through the PowerBox with all the great benefits e.g. heavy gauge servo wires, voltage regulation, battery & receiver redundancy etc.

My hope is that I can control the secondary functions e.g. air brakes, lights and telemetry through the S-Bus 2 port independent of the PowerBox; realizing that the secondary functions would ‘not’ have receiver redundancy; I’m perfectly okay with this.

Anyway, that’s my wish list; I thought I’d post to chat with others who have been down this road. Let me know if you see a problem with my approach to this issue.

On the other hand, the Emcotec system looks like a solid system with parallel features; hard to beat German electronics! Let me know if you do a review on the Emcotec system, I’d like to know what you think.

Incidentally, I’d really like to see your T-38; any chance you’ll be bringing it to Jets Over Kentucky this year?

Joe
Old 04-05-2012, 06:26 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Hi Joe,

I'll post some T-38 pics here soon .. I had Skymaster paint it after the one my son will be flying shortly .. may or may not be able to make Kentucky this year .. hope so, it is such a great event!

Dave
Old 07-31-2013, 03:59 PM
  #35  
csandt051196
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Not to open an old post, but I am working on a turbinator and will be using straight SBUS with one receiver, but I would like to have redundant batter packs. Any idea how to set this up?
Old 07-31-2013, 04:46 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

There's another thread running now you might want to look at.

www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11580992/tm.htm

Not much to do with a second battery pack other than hook it up. I'm referring to A123's as ther is no voltage reduction needed and the full current of the battery is available without a regulator.

I like using two 2300 A123's rather than on 4600. If one battery goes south the other is ready and willing to provide power. I also like to put a schottky diode in series (not really necessary) with the battery and the switch in the unlikely event that a cell would short out rather than become an open circuit. That isolates it from the system.

Use a heavy duty "Y" connector or hub to hook it into the receiver, the S.Bus2 port or an open servo channel. Note: All the red servo wires and black servo wires are all hooked up in parallel so it doesn really matter where you connect it. Preferably "Y" it to the servos that would draw the most current (flaps or big rudders).

Happy Flying!

Steve
Old 07-31-2013, 04:47 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

There's another thread running now you might want to look at.

Not much to do with a second battery pack other than hook it up. I'm referring to A123's as ther is no voltage reduction needed and the full current of the battery is available without a regulator.

I like using two 2300 A123's rather than on 4600. If one battery goes south the other is ready and willing to provide power. I also like to put a schottky diode in series (not really necessary) with the battery and the switch in the unlikely event that a cell would short out rather than become an open circuit. That isolates it from the system.

Use a heavy duty "Y" connector or hub to hook it into the receiver, the S.Bus2 port or an open servo channel. Note: All the red servo wires and black servo wires are all hooked up in parallel so it doesn really matter where you connect it. Preferably "Y" it to the servos that would draw the most current (flaps or big rudders).

Happy Flying!

Steve
Old 07-31-2013, 10:03 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

I'm fighting this S-Bus thing now allready for 6 months and realy can't get my head around it.

Would realy like to start using it but i also don't see why to invest in the redicoulsy high priced S-Bus servo's.
So i want to use my normal servo's with the decoders.
But now i understood that if using the decoders you can't reverse the servo's??

So reading all this makes it even more confusing cause as i got it right, no one is recomending straight S-Bus use cause of the cable's will probably fail due to high current?
So if i understand correctly, an improvement to make things easier ends up beeing less reliable cause of thin wires?

So you need to add a few more bits to tackle the current problem (powerbox SRS or the emcotec unit).
This will make it again even more complex and 'the more stuf in there the more can fail".........

All the electric gear manuefactors don't give the answer to the qustion, "will the gears work when using S-Bus".........
And what about the Turbine ECU??? will it acept beeing hooked up to an S-bus decoder or hub??

I just want to make an symple as posible S-Bus set up to start with.

- 7x digital Des 707 (2x elv, 2x ail, 2x flap, 1x rud)
- jettronics gear/door secuencer (3x door servo and 3x electric gear)
- 1x nose gear steering servo
- throttle (ecu)
- 2 x 2cell lipo for power

So what in god's name do i need to make it work that i can reverse servo's, operate gear and doors, operate throttle and that the wires dont melt??

Realy hope some one can give me the redeeming answer to my torture......

Many Thanks,

Ed



Old 08-01-2013, 07:31 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

So after you use the decoder for the non Sbus your saying you cannot reverse the servo in the radio like a normal?
Why not just contact Futaba and have them walk you through everything.
Old 08-01-2013, 08:07 AM
  #40  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets


ORIGINAL: csandt051196

Not to open an old post, but I am working on a turbinator and will be using straight SBUS with one receiver, but I would like to have redundant batter packs. Any idea how to set this up?
Just plug the other pack into a hub. I have 14+ servos on my skymaster Mig with sbus. One wire going to the back that breaks into two 4 way hubs. Each one has power going to it via fromeco regulator and A123 pack. Then the same up front directly into RX. So two packs, but 3 power sources into the system. The pack that does the back addresses the four vectored thrust nozzles, elevator and rudders. The front pack does ailerons, flaps and runs all the valves.

I have 8 servos on my bobcat with one pack. All sbus servos, highest torque I could fit in the spaces. Works great, super clean install.

I would love for Futaba (or an EE) to explain how adding packs to a hub disperses the power....
Old 08-01-2013, 11:00 AM
  #41  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets


[quote]ORIGINAL: Midas D.

> But now i understood that if using the decoders you can't reverse the servo's??
You can, but you need to program the decoders. You can either do it with the usb dongle or I believe some of the new Futaba TX can do it now.

>So reading all this makes it even more confusing cause as i got it right, no one is recomending straight S-Bus use cause of the cable's will probably fail due to high current?
This has been one argument against however have 2 sbus ports to remove the single point of failure seems a good solution to ease modelers minds.

>And what about the Turbine ECU??? will it acept beeing hooked up to an S-bus decoder or hub??
I believe you can treat as a regular servo so you use a SBD-1 decoder. However most hook to ch3 on an rx which is the normal old fashioned pwm signaling parallel port.

>I just want to make an symple as posible S-Bus set up to start with.
Using any of the 8ch rx, you can put 8 on the parallel servo drivers ports and remaining on sbus SBD-1 decoders including batteries.
You do not need to buy sbus servos. The disadvantage of the SBD-1 decoders is some extra wire length you have to deal with since the SBD-1 dont come with short leads.
Old 08-01-2013, 02:03 PM
  #42  
Chris Smith
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Some unsubstantiated numbers are being thrown around. It's always better to do your own homework.

I'll state numbers that Futaba uses.

S-Bus is designed to handle 10 amps using Futaba supplied SBus components.
This includes hubs, extensions, decoders, receivers. If powerboxes and other items were necessary they would be part of the Futaba product list.

Remember all the arguments against dual batteries? We remember the days when miniature turbines in models were considered really cool but impractical. All the "experts" on compuserve were convinced of all the disastrous reasons they weren't safe, and would never be used by the average modeler... It's always tempting to spend money on gadgets to stuff in a jet, but don't add complexity based on rumor or inaccurate fear-mongering.

Sbus is designed to simplify, not add to the box count. Maybe it's not for every application. No system is.
Old 08-01-2013, 02:52 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

I agree ... Compuserve, That's Funny!

What I don't get is why guys want to use Regulators with A123 batteries. A123's are rated at 30 C. You take two packs in parallel, that's 4600mah at 30 C which equates to 130 Amps! Continuous! I can't imagine any regulator made that could compete with that. And the Servos and RX just seem to thrive on the 6.3 volts.

Lipos, well thats a different story. You need to reduce the voltage as the 7.4V is a little too high for most servos.

The weak link in the current carrying chain is the motor controller inside the servo. Or the motor itself. When I've had electrical meltdown it's always been a cooked motor controller or motor inside the servo. Never in the wire or servo plug. It fries and then usually (hopefully) blows an open circuit so the wires don't start melting. I've not had it ever happen from aerodynamic forces. It's only been from mechanical binding or crash damage to the servo or linkage.

Just my two cents trying to save guys money and complexity. And I'm not knocking any setup that a modeler likes or has had great success with. There are a lot of great ways to get to the desired result of a dependable, redundant system.


Happy Flying,

Steve
Old 08-01-2013, 02:55 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

double post
Old 08-01-2013, 03:07 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Yep, I've read the docs and seen the vids where Futaba stating 10Amps is all good in this system. Where I have issue is the Fut J connectors(or anything similar). Try putting even 10Amps through one of those little guys and see how hot they get. This together with single point of failure is a good enough reason to look to a dual sbus. my2c
Old 08-01-2013, 05:25 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets


ORIGINAL: stevekott

I agree ... Compuserve, That's Funny! [img][/img]

What I don't get is why guys want to use Regulators with A123 batteries. A123's are rated at 30 C. You take two packs in parallel, that's 4600mah at 30 C which equates to 130 Amps! Continuous! I can't imagine any regulator made that could compete with that. And the Servos and RX just seem to thrive on the 6.3 volts.

Lipos, well thats a different story. You need to reduce the voltage as the 7.4V is a little too high for most servos.

The weak link in the current carrying chain is the motor controller inside the servo. Or the motor itself. When I've had electrical meltdown it's always been a cooked motor controller or motor inside the servo. Never in the wire or servo plug. It fries and then usually (hopefully) blows an open circuit so the wires don't start melting. I've not had it ever happen from aerodynamic forces. It's only been from mechanical binding or crash damage to the servo or linkage.

Just my two cents trying to save guys money and complexity. And I'm not knocking any setup that a modeler likes or has had great success with. There are a lot of great ways to get to the desired result of a dependable, redundant system.


Happy Flying,

Steve
Hi Steve,,

Good points you make on the current carrying capacity of the servo. When I think about it, the little wires inside the servo case that actually carry the current to the motor communicators are tiny in comparison to a normal servo lead..

I am one of those people that do use a regulator on my Life batteries. The reason being, JR quite clearly state in their sales literature that the input voltage for my 8411 servos is between 4.8 and 6 volts.

My partially discharged 2 cell Li-fe battery will maintain well over 6 volts, even at high loads. When the pack is fresh off the charger the voltage is above 7 volts.

Now I am not an electrical genius, so when I was faced with making the decision on what power supply to use, I chose to go with what JR recommended, and keep the voltage to below 6v with a regulator. It may well be overkill, and adding unnecessary complexity to the system, however this is what the manufacturer recommends, be it right or wrong.

It may be perfectly OK to operate 8411 servos at 6.3-7v, but I simply do not know enough about it.. Anecdotal evidence here on RCU would suggest that it is fine to do so, and no regulator is required, however the internet has lied to me before!!!

I also agree with dbsonic above. I could not find any published info, but the consensus here seems to be that a good quality clean and new JR gold connector, can handle up to 3 amps continuous.

Roger

Old 08-01-2013, 07:16 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

Roger, areed, the cleaner/newer the connector the better, but oxidation of the plug(or fuel residue, smoke fluid from accidental spill) over time yeilds a little bit of resistance/parasitics and with a lot of current, boom you have a passive component, i.e. basic resistor, dissipating some serious heat.

I've been looking for a good step-down for certain electronics in a Life powered system that I suspect are better run at 6v or less and not having the greatest luck finding them. But I believe they are used by heli guys so may try their shops.
Old 08-01-2013, 07:34 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

I hear you Roger and if works .... don't fix it.  From my personal experience the JR's seem to all be fine at 6.3 volts but I understand your concern.

I agree about the J connectors.  Keep the clean but they get pretty hot at a continuous 5 amps. Luckily our systems are rarely continuous.  I usuall use Deans type connectors.from.the batteries to the "Y" connectors and two batteries so Im cutting the current in half.

On my SM F-18 I soldered to two "Y" 's on each battery connector cutting the total load per connector by 4.

There's a lot.of.different ways to.distribute power.  The one that has been working fine.for.you is.the.one to.keep.
Old 08-01-2013, 10:10 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets

I,m about to start an Sbus installation in my Hawk using the Robbe/Futaba backer and 2 three channel receivers.

What is the correct way to bind the receivers to the 18MZ to get redundancy at the backer? Should they be bound in dual receiver mode or single or doesn't it matter when only using Sbus?

Also assume receivers should both be set to mode B is this correct?

Malcolm
Old 08-02-2013, 02:12 AM
  #50  
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Default RE: S-Bus and Jets


ORIGINAL: Chris Smith

Some unsubstantiated numbers are being thrown around. It's always better to do your own homework.

I'll state numbers that Futaba uses.

S-Bus is designed to handle 10 amps using Futaba supplied SBus components.
This includes hubs, extensions, decoders, receivers. If powerboxes and other items were necessary they would be part of the Futaba product list.

Remember all the arguments against dual batteries? We remember the days when miniature turbines in models were considered really cool but impractical. All the ''experts'' on compuserve were convinced of all the disastrous reasons they weren't safe, and would never be used by the average modeler... It's always tempting to spend money on gadgets to stuff in a jet, but don't add complexity based on rumor or inaccurate fear-mongering.

Sbus is designed to simplify, not add to the box count. Maybe it's not for every application. No system is.

Had this exact discussion with the guys in my local jet group. They don't understand why Futaba has pushed S-Bus so hard.
They all switched to FASST but are still going the power box route with 8711's.
They're happy and that is all that matters to me.

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