BobFE

Continued from "Getting back into it" in the "Beginners" forum. Ok, so having a good flight, then decided to do a nice slow roll. Started out fine, but was loosing too much altitude too fast. Tried to get it over faster but saw I was running out of airspace real quick. Almost had it wings level when the ground jumped up and grabbed the plane. I might want to think about putting some weights on the ground so it won't do that again. Anyways, the plane hit about 40 yards in front of me with right wing down, nose down attitude. I saw the wing depart the aircraft and the fuselage come to rest about 10ft from the wing. Totally pilot error. Damage not that bad. Nose gear torn off, aileron servo ripped out, aileron pushrod bent, frame just forward of the wing broken, wing pins ripped out of wing, covering on bottom of plane ripped off, and right wingtip crunched. From what I can tell the firewall is till intact and the prop didn't even break! I'll know more when I start tearing into it. I am really glad I converted the plane to pins and screws a few years ago. If the plane still had rubber bands to hold on the wings I think the damage would me more severe. The nylon shear screws did their job. I'll repair the damage and have the plane flying again soon. Here are some pics.

skylark-flier

Shoot, that isn't so bad. I've had GOOD landings that looked worse than that (LOL)... No, seriously, these are the joys of flying - y'learn something every day. What we learned today is that we want to start those rolls a bit higher than we were.

Yeah, doesn't look too bad at all - a few hours work and y'er flying again.

Go for it!

BobFE

Found out it will be a little more than a few hours work. The firewall did come loose from the body and I'll have to replace the frame fwd of the wing. Also on the wing the joint were the two sides come together is loose, the hinges for the ailerons on one side need replaced, and both pins need reattached. Here are a few more pics after I started the rebuild.

skylark-flier

Yeah, it's still just a bit of gluing & bracing - - - and watching that weight!!!!!!!

Oh, and maybe another pot of coffee in the process.

My own 39-yr old Sr. Falcon recently went through something of what you're doing right now - through my own stupidity, of course. Years ago I converted her to double aileron servos - which means 2 wires for ailerons, right?! Also means I have flaps and can do a lot of really neat things with her that I couldn't do originally. Well, dummy me, after more than 20 years of flying her that way, one day last summer a "senior moment" occurred - I crossed the wires - and then didn't check for control movement. So, I lift off and she banks a bit right (not really unusual at slow speed, she sometimes does that) and I correct left ... and she banks more, and I correct more ... and with the wings absolutely VERTICAL she plows into the ground on her side.

Wing came out OK, believe it or not - just a bit of a scratch on the tip. Fuse, however - that was a different matter - not very far from what you're experiencing right now. Took about 5 hours of actual work - after 5 hours of kicking myself where it just might do some good eventually.

She's back in the air again, doing her thing just like always ... but NOW I make sure I check control movement.

Couldn't believe it, really. Been flying CL since I was 7 (many, many decades ago) and RC since 1972 - and I did something totally NEWBY like that.

Sheesh!

(Pic of the Falcon)

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

In addition to starting your roll attempt a little higher next time as skylark correctly advises, try giving a quick blip of up elevator just before you add in the ailerons to start the roll. This will give you a little nose up pitch attitude to offset some of the loss of altitude that will occur when a flat wing trainer goes inverted. It will help you have time to get rolled fully before heading for the ground. After having practiced doing that, then learn to add a quick blip of down elevator half way thru the roll when the airplane is inverted. This "down" elevator used when the plane is inverted will pitch the nose up to again offset the natural desire of a flat wing trainer to head for the ground when inverted. With practice you will get the timing of when and how much down elevator to give it midway through the roll. You can now eliminate or lessen the amount of pre roll pitch up you give it before starting the roll. This will also take out some of the "barrel roll" look of your rolls. Also some planes will roll better if you also add rudder with the ailerons. But some planes roll much worse with rudder added to the ailerons so try it both ways with plenty of spare altitude. Keep it two mistakes high till you get good at it. Have fun!

BobFE

52larry52, thanks. I do that normally, in fact I did that earlier with some nice rolls. I think I forgot to put in the down elevator while the plane was inverted. I'm not sure, though, things started happening really fast and then I ran out of airspace. I remember the old saying; "there are those that will crash, those that have crashed, and those that will crash again". I'm in the third category. Well I still have my 4* to crash...er....I mean fly.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

BobFE, Ok, you know how to do it, you just didn't do it! Please try to remember what you know when flying your 4 star as I have a soft spot in my heart for them and hate to see them crashed. Also, as you know, the 4 star will roll much better that the trainer anyway. Enjoy...

BobFE

Your right, I didn't do it and now I'm paying the price, thanks for the advice though. Yea I almost crashed my 4 star a few years ago. I was doing some rolls, spins, etc and lost orientation. It was going down into the trees and I couldn't recover it. It was seconds away and I gave up. I yelled "S$#%!" and already in my mind has started walking through the field to recover my wreck. The next thing I know I see the plane flying away from the trees straight and level. I took back control of the plane, brought it in and landed it. Packed up everything and called it a day. These things happen. I'll take it slow as I'm just getting back into flying after 5 years away from it. I'll post a few pics of my 4 star. Hopefully I'll have some updated pics on the rebuild tonight.

acdii

Wow nice 4*!   I am on my second one, a 120, first one had a defect in the joiner box and snapped the wing off in flight.   I built the second one from a kit, and the only way this wing comes apart is a high g impact with the ground.

Now that you have the LT on the bench, rip that training gear off and toss on a tail wheel. Thats what I did with mine, and man I just LOVE that plane!

acdii

Hmm wont let me edit my last post, so


Oh MAN, dont tell me the 4* in the post is the one you posted about going for a roll into the ground! 

Now I really do feel sad.

BobFE

Yep, now you understand my sadness. I'm not going to make the LT-40 a tail dragger, I still use it for training, but thanks for the sugestion.

a70eliminator

I hear bad things can happen when you wear a Squeelers T-shirt, jersey, wahever lol.

MajorTomski

Just my 2cents from teaching with Kadets for 19 years now.

To do an easy roll; go to full power and pull up into a 10-15 degree climb. Neutralize everything and add full aileron in either direction. Without any other input the Kadet will roll and end up in a 10-15 degree nose down additude. Pull out of the resulting dive.

To double the roll rate add rudder in the same direction as the ailerons. It is a side effect of the Kadets original three channel heritage.

Again, just what 19 years have taught me.

BobFE

Major, thanks for the advice. I shouldn't have tried the roll as low as I was with that plane, and I should have added down elevator when I was inverted. Just stupid headwork on my part. I will try what you sugested when I get the plane back in the air.

Now a70eliminator, I wear my #58 (Jack Lambert) jersey with pride!!!!! I'm from Steelers Country (Western PA) and I do bleed black and gold. I have worn it everywhere and it has brought me good luck. I have never crashed when wearing that jersey. OH, and by the way, my LT-40 is done in Steelers colors. (or at least as close to the colors as I could get)