Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
#253
RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
An FYI for everyone with this jet....we are at 410 mm on the CG now ( a LONG way from the recommended 340-360 mm) and we will move it further back for the next flights. Using the stock tanks. I also took apart and shimmed the nosewheel to extend it further so the jet would sit more closely to level while on the wheels....before this, it was noticably in a nose low attitude. This shim was a huge inprovement for takeoff and rotation. FWIW.....
#254
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RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
Mate,
Fantastic, keep the comments coming. I am seriously considering the purchase of one of these and would like to know as much about the flying characteristics as possible before I commit.
If anyone has flown the F-86 with the 'new' tank set-up it will be great to get some feedback.
I have noticed the one flown at JetPower also sat negative on the runway, but the take-off seems fine, maybe the owner can let us know what cg and tank configuration he has.
One thing that looks terrible, also on the smaller one, is the incidence of the drop tanks to the wing incidence. I don't recall any of the BVM ones ever being so pronounced. The plane looks like it is flying tail-down.
Thanks for your comments.
Jan
Fantastic, keep the comments coming. I am seriously considering the purchase of one of these and would like to know as much about the flying characteristics as possible before I commit.
If anyone has flown the F-86 with the 'new' tank set-up it will be great to get some feedback.
I have noticed the one flown at JetPower also sat negative on the runway, but the take-off seems fine, maybe the owner can let us know what cg and tank configuration he has.
One thing that looks terrible, also on the smaller one, is the incidence of the drop tanks to the wing incidence. I don't recall any of the BVM ones ever being so pronounced. The plane looks like it is flying tail-down.
Thanks for your comments.
Jan
#256
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RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
Anton.
I need to remove the factory installed flap from its hinges ( To try and paint inside this area) Can you tell me, is it possible to remove the pin that goes through the hinges, if so how?
Regards Al
I need to remove the factory installed flap from its hinges ( To try and paint inside this area) Can you tell me, is it possible to remove the pin that goes through the hinges, if so how?
Regards Al
#257
Thread Starter
RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
#259
Thread Starter
RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
ORIGINAL: Springbok Flyer
Hi Anton,
Very nice.
What engine is in that F-86 and what is the c of g position? We're you using the leading edge slats in that flight?
Regards,
Jan
Hi Anton,
Very nice.
What engine is in that F-86 and what is the c of g position? We're you using the leading edge slats in that flight?
Regards,
Jan
Hi, Jan
when i test flight the prototype of F-86 1/5 with the P-160, the CG is 305 mm, and used the LE during the take off and landing,
and the throws:
Elevators: 25mm
Ailerons: 20mm
Flap: 35 take off -65mm landing
hope can hlep to you
Anton
#261
Thread Starter
RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
ORIGINAL: Springbok Flyer
Hi Anton,
Thank you for that. Did the prototype have the new main tanks or still the original big tank in front of the CG?
Cheers,
Jan
Hi Anton,
Thank you for that. Did the prototype have the new main tanks or still the original big tank in front of the CG?
Cheers,
Jan
#262
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RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
Old thread but I want a big F-86. And this seems to fit the bill.
After re-reading all 11 pages....
1. Morne says the plane flies great with no problems.
2. Other pilots say this sabre flies too nose heavy and they move the CG back.
3. Anton confirms the nose heavy tendancies and offers a new fuel tank configuration.
4. Other pilots shim the nose up to give it a more positive AOA.
And then.....
Nothing.
Sabres are sweet hearts and I've had a couple of them. I want one EXACTLEY this size and with all the scale goodies this one has.
I also think the drop tanks droop a little too much in the front vs the full scale counterpart. This is an easy fix, however.
Did anyone figure out the CG of this thing? Anyone describe it as a sweetheart like other sabres?
After re-reading all 11 pages....
1. Morne says the plane flies great with no problems.
2. Other pilots say this sabre flies too nose heavy and they move the CG back.
3. Anton confirms the nose heavy tendancies and offers a new fuel tank configuration.
4. Other pilots shim the nose up to give it a more positive AOA.
And then.....
Nothing.
Sabres are sweet hearts and I've had a couple of them. I want one EXACTLEY this size and with all the scale goodies this one has.
I also think the drop tanks droop a little too much in the front vs the full scale counterpart. This is an easy fix, however.
Did anyone figure out the CG of this thing? Anyone describe it as a sweetheart like other sabres?
#263
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RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
Rav,
I am with you on this and would like to hear more from guys that have been flying their's for a longtime now. From what I hear Morne crashed his. My build has just started and I have the new tanks - total of 6.5 litres - way too much, but on the CG (as recommended by Brian O'Meara). In fact the front tank is a bad shape for fuel pickup as it is basically a brick shape, sitting across the fuselage. With the fuel pick up line coming in on the front as usual, the clunk can at most only reach about half way to each side. So if you get down to less than one third in this tank (total 2.75 liters) the cluck will be out of the fuel. Personally, I will swap this tank for a smaller one as the two saddles are 3.6 litres already and my flight times hardly ever require more than 3.5 litres. FYI, the turbine is mounted over the top of the front tank and the two saddles now sit behind and around the pipe. I will be using a full P-200 bypass and AMT Pegasus HPe - more than enough space for all this.
Fitting the retractable landing lights under the front intake is going to be a challenge and I would like to hear how anyone using the Details4Scale bits, have managed. My wings are done and working out the correct geometry for all the internal linkages were difficult but in the end looks and works fine. The final results ended up surprisingly slop free, especially when considering the relative small angles between short servo arms and minimal horn leverage. Again, it will be good to hear what most guys think about your comment regarding the droop angle of the drop tanks - I tend to agree. My tanks are done, but as you say, easily changed.
Overall I am very happy with my kit and I am looking forward to flying it alongside my other great SM jets.
Cheers,
Jan
I am with you on this and would like to hear more from guys that have been flying their's for a longtime now. From what I hear Morne crashed his. My build has just started and I have the new tanks - total of 6.5 litres - way too much, but on the CG (as recommended by Brian O'Meara). In fact the front tank is a bad shape for fuel pickup as it is basically a brick shape, sitting across the fuselage. With the fuel pick up line coming in on the front as usual, the clunk can at most only reach about half way to each side. So if you get down to less than one third in this tank (total 2.75 liters) the cluck will be out of the fuel. Personally, I will swap this tank for a smaller one as the two saddles are 3.6 litres already and my flight times hardly ever require more than 3.5 litres. FYI, the turbine is mounted over the top of the front tank and the two saddles now sit behind and around the pipe. I will be using a full P-200 bypass and AMT Pegasus HPe - more than enough space for all this.
Fitting the retractable landing lights under the front intake is going to be a challenge and I would like to hear how anyone using the Details4Scale bits, have managed. My wings are done and working out the correct geometry for all the internal linkages were difficult but in the end looks and works fine. The final results ended up surprisingly slop free, especially when considering the relative small angles between short servo arms and minimal horn leverage. Again, it will be good to hear what most guys think about your comment regarding the droop angle of the drop tanks - I tend to agree. My tanks are done, but as you say, easily changed.
Overall I am very happy with my kit and I am looking forward to flying it alongside my other great SM jets.
Cheers,
Jan
#265
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RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
Hi,
I've had four SM kits, (2) F-16's, F-4 and F-86, and they all had MAJOR problems, but the F-86 was by far the worst.
I was warned by several modelers about the F-86, but I didn't listen. Oh well....
I cut the ends of the center tank at a 45 degree angle, Hysoled a cover over each end. This allows the clunk to reach each side of the "narrowed" width.
The landing lights are a PITA. I mounted the lights in the nose, used a ball link on the light actuating arm and ran pushrod to the rear gear former, where I mounted a small servo.
There's not a lot of room to work, the biggest issue is the pushrod clearance between the nose gear frame and the gear mount side wall, but it can be done, just not sure it's worth the effort, especially since my lights don't work.
When I was at KY jets, I talked to a modeler who gave me some info on modifications that are needed:
Carbon fiber the fin former to stiffen it up. C/F the openings for the speedbrake opening. Glue gussets on the "tabs" that bolt the two fuse half's together. Over time, the fuse will start to crack.
Tie the two stab mount tubing together with C/F. C/F around the rear wing pin.
To give a less negative take off attitude, deflate the main struts until the top of the wheel rim is even with the bottom of the strut.
I think he said he balanced it at 390 mm and he added 1.5 # of lead to balance, as did I, but he removed all of it as it was way nose heavy and took forever to takeoff.
I'm going to fly mine next week after I finish the mods he suggested, so I'll let you know how it went.
I've got a NEXUS (36 pounds) and the final weight is 42 pounds and I'll have 9 pounds of fuel. I'll probably reduce the fuel load after I check the fuel burn.
Good Luck,
Jon
I've had four SM kits, (2) F-16's, F-4 and F-86, and they all had MAJOR problems, but the F-86 was by far the worst.
I was warned by several modelers about the F-86, but I didn't listen. Oh well....
I cut the ends of the center tank at a 45 degree angle, Hysoled a cover over each end. This allows the clunk to reach each side of the "narrowed" width.
The landing lights are a PITA. I mounted the lights in the nose, used a ball link on the light actuating arm and ran pushrod to the rear gear former, where I mounted a small servo.
There's not a lot of room to work, the biggest issue is the pushrod clearance between the nose gear frame and the gear mount side wall, but it can be done, just not sure it's worth the effort, especially since my lights don't work.
When I was at KY jets, I talked to a modeler who gave me some info on modifications that are needed:
Carbon fiber the fin former to stiffen it up. C/F the openings for the speedbrake opening. Glue gussets on the "tabs" that bolt the two fuse half's together. Over time, the fuse will start to crack.
Tie the two stab mount tubing together with C/F. C/F around the rear wing pin.
To give a less negative take off attitude, deflate the main struts until the top of the wheel rim is even with the bottom of the strut.
I think he said he balanced it at 390 mm and he added 1.5 # of lead to balance, as did I, but he removed all of it as it was way nose heavy and took forever to takeoff.
I'm going to fly mine next week after I finish the mods he suggested, so I'll let you know how it went.
I've got a NEXUS (36 pounds) and the final weight is 42 pounds and I'll have 9 pounds of fuel. I'll probably reduce the fuel load after I check the fuel burn.
Good Luck,
Jon
#266
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
ORIGINAL: F106A
Hi,
I've had four SM kits, (2) F-16's, F-4 and F-86, and they all had MAJOR problems, but the F-86 was by far the worst.
I was warned by several modelers about the F-86, but I didn't listen. Oh well....
I cut the ends of the center tank at a 45 degree angle, Hysoled a cover over each end. This allows the clunk to reach each side of the ''narrowed'' width.
The landing lights are a PITA. I mounted the lights in the nose, used a ball link on the light actuating arm and ran pushrod to the rear gear former, where I mounted a small servo.
There's not a lot of room to work, the biggest issue is the pushrod clearance between the nose gear frame and the gear mount side wall, but it can be done, just not sure it's worth the effort, especially since my lights don't work.
When I was at KY jets, I talked to a modeler who gave me some info on modifications that are needed:
Carbon fiber the fin former to stiffen it up. C/F the openings for the speedbrake opening. Glue gussets on the ''tabs'' that bolt the two fuse half's together. Over time, the fuse will start to crack.
Tie the two stab mount tubing together with C/F. C/F around the rear wing pin.
To give a less negative take off attitude, deflate the main struts until the top of the wheel rim is even with the bottom of the strut.
I think he said he balanced it at 390 mm and he added 1.5 # of lead to balance, as did I, but he removed all of it as it was way nose heavy and took forever to takeoff.
I'm going to fly mine next week after I finish the mods he suggested, so I'll let you know how it went.
I've got a NEXUS (36 pounds) and the final weight is 42 pounds and I'll have 9 pounds of fuel. I'll probably reduce the fuel load after I check the fuel burn.
Good Luck,
Jon
Hi,
I've had four SM kits, (2) F-16's, F-4 and F-86, and they all had MAJOR problems, but the F-86 was by far the worst.
I was warned by several modelers about the F-86, but I didn't listen. Oh well....
I cut the ends of the center tank at a 45 degree angle, Hysoled a cover over each end. This allows the clunk to reach each side of the ''narrowed'' width.
The landing lights are a PITA. I mounted the lights in the nose, used a ball link on the light actuating arm and ran pushrod to the rear gear former, where I mounted a small servo.
There's not a lot of room to work, the biggest issue is the pushrod clearance between the nose gear frame and the gear mount side wall, but it can be done, just not sure it's worth the effort, especially since my lights don't work.
When I was at KY jets, I talked to a modeler who gave me some info on modifications that are needed:
Carbon fiber the fin former to stiffen it up. C/F the openings for the speedbrake opening. Glue gussets on the ''tabs'' that bolt the two fuse half's together. Over time, the fuse will start to crack.
Tie the two stab mount tubing together with C/F. C/F around the rear wing pin.
To give a less negative take off attitude, deflate the main struts until the top of the wheel rim is even with the bottom of the strut.
I think he said he balanced it at 390 mm and he added 1.5 # of lead to balance, as did I, but he removed all of it as it was way nose heavy and took forever to takeoff.
I'm going to fly mine next week after I finish the mods he suggested, so I'll let you know how it went.
I've got a NEXUS (36 pounds) and the final weight is 42 pounds and I'll have 9 pounds of fuel. I'll probably reduce the fuel load after I check the fuel burn.
Good Luck,
Jon
And again, 86's should be sweethearts.
I had a Fei-Bao f-86 that was like 1 foot (!) nose heavy. It flew like crap, but after I moved back the CG, it flew great!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w9SMOBgPXA
I am very interested in what you will see with your big F-86.
#267
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RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
Hi Jon,
Likewise, would like to hear your comments after the suggested mods and next flight. Thanks for the heads up on the landing lights fitment - I figured something similar. Normally I run between 120 and 135 pounds pressure on my main oleo's - by deflating them, aren't you bottoming out badly during the landing?
Must say, I have/had numerous SM jets (1 x F15, 1 x F-5, Small F-86, Big T-33, Small Hawk, Big Hawk100 and Big Viper) - not one was a problem - all fly/flew well and has given me many hours of pleasure.
Planning to mod the tank too and shorten it both ends - will still end up with at least 1.5 liters in it, making for at least a total 5 liters.
I have had some positive input on cg with most agreeing the best position being just behind the canopy ending on the fuselage (in other words just behind the main carbon spar, but in front of the main doors - a range of around 10mm). Just not sure it that is wheels up or down.
Perhaps some of the other old hands flying this model in current spec can dial in too.
Cheers,
Jan
Likewise, would like to hear your comments after the suggested mods and next flight. Thanks for the heads up on the landing lights fitment - I figured something similar. Normally I run between 120 and 135 pounds pressure on my main oleo's - by deflating them, aren't you bottoming out badly during the landing?
Must say, I have/had numerous SM jets (1 x F15, 1 x F-5, Small F-86, Big T-33, Small Hawk, Big Hawk100 and Big Viper) - not one was a problem - all fly/flew well and has given me many hours of pleasure.
Planning to mod the tank too and shorten it both ends - will still end up with at least 1.5 liters in it, making for at least a total 5 liters.
I have had some positive input on cg with most agreeing the best position being just behind the canopy ending on the fuselage (in other words just behind the main carbon spar, but in front of the main doors - a range of around 10mm). Just not sure it that is wheels up or down.
Perhaps some of the other old hands flying this model in current spec can dial in too.
Cheers,
Jan
#268
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RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
My 1st F-16 bought in 07. In addition to the usual problems of rudder flutter and weak center beam, the rear gear former was glued in crooked. Had to make a shim to true up the former and gear.
The 2nd F-16 I bought a couple of years ago and the elevator shafts were sticking way out. I contacted SM, who always got back to me quickly, and said to cut the ends off until they fit! When I replied, I told him that the issue was the shafts were not put in the stabs correctly. Anton got back to me and told me to send them back and he would exchange them, which he did. They forgot to paint the "eye" on the Lion head.
My F-4 did not have the rudder servo mount installed, even with all the QC stickers. I ended up making a mount. The wing spar tube(s) are slightly misaligned making it very difficult to mate the rear of the root to the fuse side.
The F-86:
Replaced all the servo covers, none of them were even close to fitting, way to small.
The slats were bowed, both up and down and front to back. I know this is/was a common problem and some people cut the slats and realigned them
The LG mounts were not drilled for the gear. When I asked for a template, they said to check with the dealer who had no idea of the correct hole locations. Finally, I scaled up some pictures and guessed the location. I was close but not exactly correct, I'll have to live with it.
The painter missed several areas that should have been painted.
And on and on.
On the positive side, my buddy who owns a body shop was very impressed with the paint job and masking, SM did a really good job.
Here's a pic of one of the paint issues.
Jon
PS: Make sure you order some touch up paint. With out the paint, I never would have been able to touch up the paint issues. The touchup paint matched the original paint perfectly.
The 2nd F-16 I bought a couple of years ago and the elevator shafts were sticking way out. I contacted SM, who always got back to me quickly, and said to cut the ends off until they fit! When I replied, I told him that the issue was the shafts were not put in the stabs correctly. Anton got back to me and told me to send them back and he would exchange them, which he did. They forgot to paint the "eye" on the Lion head.
My F-4 did not have the rudder servo mount installed, even with all the QC stickers. I ended up making a mount. The wing spar tube(s) are slightly misaligned making it very difficult to mate the rear of the root to the fuse side.
The F-86:
Replaced all the servo covers, none of them were even close to fitting, way to small.
The slats were bowed, both up and down and front to back. I know this is/was a common problem and some people cut the slats and realigned them
The LG mounts were not drilled for the gear. When I asked for a template, they said to check with the dealer who had no idea of the correct hole locations. Finally, I scaled up some pictures and guessed the location. I was close but not exactly correct, I'll have to live with it.
The painter missed several areas that should have been painted.
And on and on.
On the positive side, my buddy who owns a body shop was very impressed with the paint job and masking, SM did a really good job.
Here's a pic of one of the paint issues.
Jon
PS: Make sure you order some touch up paint. With out the paint, I never would have been able to touch up the paint issues. The touchup paint matched the original paint perfectly.
#269
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
Other than the edges of what looks like a post production panel, I can't really see any problems with that paint.
One THE most beautiful paint jobs I've ever had was on the F-18C (blue angels) that I eventually sold. It was EMACULATE!
I would be inclined to put the CG closer to the BVM f-86 scaled up.
We're looking forward to your thoughts on your flight!
One THE most beautiful paint jobs I've ever had was on the F-18C (blue angels) that I eventually sold. It was EMACULATE!
I would be inclined to put the CG closer to the BVM f-86 scaled up.
We're looking forward to your thoughts on your flight!
#272
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RE: Skymaster F-86 1/5 first products
Jan,
Crashed? If you call wheels up landing on the grass because of flame out - i would say yes. Unfortunately it hit a rough area and the nose broke just front the canopy. I had the machine guns and access hatch cut out in the nose. This weaken the area - otherwise it would have been fine.
It was flying a week after and still flying. It is well documented that SM changed to new tanks due the the 1st f86's with too much fuel before cg. So take-off was long and hard with full fuel. The f86's sold now have the rear saddle tanks and no problem with cg at 390mm. ( hope i remember correct).
I also tried to fit the details 4 scale light kit in nose. I gave it up. Not easy and i do not have time to re-engineer the light assembly...
Enjoy your F86.
Regards
Morne
Crashed? If you call wheels up landing on the grass because of flame out - i would say yes. Unfortunately it hit a rough area and the nose broke just front the canopy. I had the machine guns and access hatch cut out in the nose. This weaken the area - otherwise it would have been fine.
It was flying a week after and still flying. It is well documented that SM changed to new tanks due the the 1st f86's with too much fuel before cg. So take-off was long and hard with full fuel. The f86's sold now have the rear saddle tanks and no problem with cg at 390mm. ( hope i remember correct).
I also tried to fit the details 4 scale light kit in nose. I gave it up. Not easy and i do not have time to re-engineer the light assembly...
Enjoy your F86.
Regards
Morne
#273
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Hi, Here are some pictures of the landing light installation. Notice that you have to bevel the front of the trim ring to clear the light bowl. The best way is to setup the linkage without the gear in. Run the push rod about 3/16" above the gear mount to allow for the thickness on the mount, and the pushrod should be next to the mount sides. When everything is working, put in the nose gear and make whatever adjustments are necessary to make it work correctly. I have the landing lights on a separate channel and not tied to the retracts. I didn't want the drag penality on takeoff with the lights extended. Probably not much, but the F-86 has a long takeoff roll and every little bit helps.
#275
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F106A,
Are you using two servo's for the retractable lights? The tops of the horns on the lights are protruding into my intake, did you cut these shorter on yours?
Thanks for sharing the info.
Jan
Are you using two servo's for the retractable lights? The tops of the horns on the lights are protruding into my intake, did you cut these shorter on yours?
Thanks for sharing the info.
Jan