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Distance judging

Old 08-01-2013, 12:02 PM
  #51  
hsukaria
 
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Default RE: Distance judging

I have a somewhat similar condition at the field I fly at, but not as severe. I couple of my planes require a very long landing approach, but there is a street on one end and very high trees on the other. So, regardless which way the wind is blowing, I am not able to approach the field in a long and shallow trajectory. For those planes, I plan on setting up the flaperon function and that would permit a steeper, but slower approach. I can't see how reflexing the ailerons can help do both, steeper descent while also slowing down the plane.
Old 08-01-2013, 12:24 PM
  #52  
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ORIGINAL: hsukaria


ORIGINAL: acdii


ORIGINAL: hsukaria

acdii, the reason your engine revved up 400 rpm when you cut throttle on final approach is because the DLE20 has a funky ignition advance curve in the module. It is a subject discussed thoroughly in the engine forums. A lot of DLE20 owners change the RCExl module version of the DLE20 to another version.

Besides all the advice for landing that has been presented here, I would consider a change to your ignition module. This has been a problem for many other flyers.
Not this. The engine was at idle for at least 30 seconds and was on a perfect approach, had the corn not been there and the plane was about 4 feet lower it would have made a perfect landing. It was when I gave a touch of down elevator and the nose dipped that the engine speed increased. It didnt increase after the nose dropped and picked up speed, it increased as the nose dropped. In fact my fingers were off the left stick at this time. The idea was to drop it about 4 feet and level off, instead it sped up and drop almost 8 feet and I barely got it leveled off when the wheels smacked the ground. It looked as though I intentionally increased throttle and pushed it down, when all I was trying to do was get it a little closer to the ground . Had I just killed the engine when it crossed the corn, this manuever would have worked perfect.

I do know what you are referring to, but this is a new ignition, the original one got mangled in the first 4* when its wing snapped. The only time I have a high idle is when running from full throttle and quickly chopping to idle, a blip of throttle settles it right down. If I dont blip it, it remains high and never settles down, even though the throttle is fully closed. From half throttle though it idles right down to 1600 and ''usually'' stays there. It never did this on the ground, but I never picked the plane up and seen what it does at idle with the nose pointing up or down, but will see if it happens in a static test, who knows maybe there is a tiny bit of slop in the linkage causing it, though I doubt it since the throttle spring is still in place.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your description. So, other than something flaky in the throttle linkage as you mention, a larger diameter/smaller pitch prop would help slow down the plane more on landing, as some have already mentioned.
I have a handful of props, so will give them a try after I change out the radio and setup flaperons. I like how it flies with the current prop, did not like it with the 17x8 XOAR, but I have a few other props I can try out too.

Old 08-01-2013, 03:14 PM
  #53  
BobFE
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Default RE: Distance judging

acdii, sorry should have been more specific, I was talking about the spoiler option for your 4Star. I was just commenting on the T-34 because I've actually been in one flying and though I would share. With the full size we always took off from a paved runway so I have no experience about landing or taking off on grass. I can understand your problems with the grass with the RC, I've run into that myself.

Just had a thought about your engine problem. It almost sounds like something is leaning out the engine when you push the nose over, then when you push up the throttle and pull it back it resets whatever the problem is. Might want to take a close look at the carb.
Old 08-01-2013, 05:39 PM
  #54  
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acdii, sorry should have been more specific, I was talking about the spoiler option for your 4Star. I was just commenting on the T-34 because I've actually been in one flying and though I would share. With the full size we always took off from a paved runway so I have no experience about landing or taking off on grass. I can understand your problems with the grass with the RC, I've run into that myself.

Just had a thought about your engine problem. It almost sounds like something is leaning out the engine when you push the nose over, then when you push up the throttle and pull it back it resets whatever the problem is. Might want to take a close look at the carb.
Heres the strange part, it idled down when it leveled out, just before the wheels struck and killed the engine. Iwill do some ground tests and see if its attitude related, or was just a weird occurance. Going to dig through my RX and see what I have tonight, and get that changed out this weekend.

Old 08-02-2013, 04:15 AM
  #55  
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Default RE: Distance judging

How about simply asking the farmer not to plant so close to the end of the runway? Offer him some $ incentive to stay back 50 or so feet from the normal approach.
Old 08-02-2013, 05:06 AM
  #56  
hsukaria
 
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How about simply asking the farmer not to plant so close to the end of the runway? Offer him some $ incentive to stay back 50 or so feet from the normal approach.
Or plant soybeans. Aren't farmers supposed to do crop rotation anyway?
Old 08-02-2013, 05:18 AM
  #57  
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Thanks to gasahol corn is at a premium price now, what a farce that idea is. Now watch the sparks fly
Old 08-02-2013, 05:20 AM
  #58  
hsukaria
 
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Thanks to gasahol corn is at a premium price now, what a farce that idea is. Now watch the sparks fly [img][/img]
Now you got me started!!!![>:]
Old 08-02-2013, 05:25 AM
  #59  
BobFE
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Default RE: Distance judging

And with the poor corn crop last year, prices will be high this year. Yea I don't see the farmer not planting just so some guys can land their "toy" airplanes. Look at the bright side, yes they do crop rotation so the farmer will probably plant something different next year.
Old 08-02-2013, 06:30 AM
  #60  
hsukaria
 
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Ya but the following year it will be corn again. Maybe the idea of paying the farmer to not plant for another 50 feet is a good one. It's only money!! Whether he gets it from the RC guys or from ethanol.
Old 08-06-2013, 06:17 PM
  #61  
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acdii:

I have not read every post in this thread, so this may have been mentioned ? It sounds like you have several airplanes in your hangar, and the one that is giving you trouble with your flying field and the corn surrounding the field is the 4 star. If the corn presents that much of a problem with you flying it there and your concerned about it, just don't fly that particular plane until the corn is harvested. Fly the others if they are easier to land. The corn will be harvested in October ? Don't risk your prized plane due to a forced "bad" landing.

I too fly in a similar situation like you do. Corn everywhere 6-7 ft. tall. Every year they alternate between beans and corn. Have to plan my approaches so do not run out of runway and damage the plane due to coming in higher and faster.
Old 08-07-2013, 05:43 AM
  #62  
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Problem, resolved, Mostly. I set it up on the JR, and found the cause of the idle up too. The throttle linkage has a touch of play, and just wiggling the rudder is enough to cause the idle to rise. I made some adjustments on the new radio to take the sensitivity out of it. I set it up for flaperons, and man does this bugger fly slow. I had it at idle and it would not stall, but I can now bring it down and land it without bouncing all over the place. My friend said it looked like a real plane in the distance in silhouette with how slow it was flying. I just need to practice a bit more on the landings and get my groove back flying this one. It is WIcked now with the separate aileron channels, it has extreme throws and can really roll and tumble. I need to see if I can ratchet the throttle though, its setup for Heli, and it doesnt take much at all to move the throttle at idle.

I had to land downwind though, landing into the wind last night, was impossible. The runway is east-west, corn on north, east, and west, bilevel barn on the southeast end, tree, and some trailers on the southwest side, and some full size airplanes in pieces behind the barn. So the east end is the furthest from where we stand and fly, the wind last night was SSW, when meant landing from the right. Because of the barn, it gets turbulent on the east end, which makes it interesting to say the least when the wind is out of the south. However last night the wind was in such a direction that trying to land that plane was impossible. I had to crab it into the wind, in fact I could see full profile as it was coming down, and it was drifting right. When I got over the threshold and tried to straighten out, the drift increased greatly, and I was off the landing zone in a heart beat. I had tried to set it up so it was really south of the landing strip, but it would still drift too much for a safe landing, so I came in from the west with the wind, and was able to set it down smoothly. We all thought it was going into the corn at the end but it slowed enough to turn without ground looping.

I took it up a second time and tried again, but it was way too hard, it would just drift like crazy, and it really wasn't that windy, under 10 MPH, but it was in such a direction that just pushed the plane sideways. So brought it down with the wind again, had a nearly perfect landing, but a little to much nose down and clipped the prop on touchdown, but it still landed smoothly, no bounce, no sprung gear, and no divits in the field.

I was able to land my LT40 into the wind though, it was not affected by the cross wind on landing, and two out of three landings were perfect, my one T&G though, heheh, man can that plane bounce! One landing clipped the prop, stopping the engine, the other two were level and smooth. These are all tail draggers too, I dont care for trikes. A few times thought both planes were in the corn at the ends, but they cleared.

Man is it tough to determine if they will clear when you fly only one night a week.
Old 09-30-2013, 06:59 PM
  #63  
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Finally got around to measuring the landing strip, 45' by 350'. Corn was 10' tall. Also got the 4* tweaked, it wasn't tail heavy, it was nose heavy. The more I moved the cg forward, the harder it came down. I pulled 2 1/4 ounces off the nose and it comes in gently now with a nice soft landing. Funny thing a couple guys at the field also thought it was tail heavy, but changed their minds when they saw it fly the last time.

Been a good flying season, only cracked one plane from a dead stick, and broke one prop. The cracked plane I repaired and gave to my friend, replaced the broken prop and now have a nice letter opener.
Old 09-30-2013, 07:38 PM
  #64  
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So we could have ended this one on post #2? LOL Glad you got it worked out, I didn't do much flying at all this year. Slightly envious of you guys that were able to fly on a regular basis.
Old 09-30-2013, 11:52 PM
  #65  
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Assuming that your approach is at an angle of 5 degrees ... not unreasonable, I think, for a model aeroplane ... then about 115 feet of your runway becomes unavailable to you, owing to the crop. It has created a displaced threshold, of sorts.

And that's if your wheels skim the tops of the crop.

It's probably reasonable to say that the crop halves the effective length of your runway.

Last edited by bogbeagle; 09-30-2013 at 11:55 PM.
Old 10-02-2013, 09:15 AM
  #66  
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Several people suggested a lower pitch/higher diameter prop. What are you using? You may not know what a big difference that can make.

My 4*60 is full span, 7 lbs. People said it would be a floater, but it lands beautifully. That's because it has a 14x4 prop on it.

Jim
Old 10-02-2013, 12:13 PM
  #67  
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I tried different props, but it flies best on the 16x8, and now that I have the CG pushed back, flies exactly like my first one did, and is so much easier to land, now it touches down gracefully and not slamming into the ground. Having it really nose heavy showed me what the problem was. When I backed off on the elevator, the nose dropped quickly, which is why I was having so many problems flaring at touchdown, but when it became really tail heavy losing that hatch, I was able to set it down much smoother, but it was really touchy on approach. I rebalanced at 4" CG, then on landing, as soon as I was just about to touch, and relaxed the stick, the nose dropped and BANG right into the ground hard, I restarted, went around again and second landing attempt same exact thing, so I pulled the hatch off, removed an ounce, put it back on(hatch is now very secure), went up and landed again, this time it was much more stable, but still a tad nose heavy as it still dropped its nose when I relaxed on the up. Pulled another 1/4 ounce, and now it lands perfectly, smooth, level, easy to control, and coming up over the top of the corn is no longer a problem, let it sink at idle, then just as it comes over, apply a touch of throttle, pull back, level off, back to idle and it settles in perfectly. I think having the original hatch pop off was what helped figure out the problem the most. I really had no problems landing the LT40 since I had so many hours flying it, but the 4*120 is larger and longer and thats where I was having the real problem, judging when it was actually over the corn, and not the actual landing. There were a few close calls, but none that caused a crash.

The most ironic thing of all, everyone thought it was tail heavy, but it was just the opposite. I just happened to have high throws and no expo on it at that time, but now with expo dialed in, it is no longer twitchy in the tail. Losing all the nose weight proved that out, thankfully I had expo dialed in before then, or it would mostly likely be a wood pile now.

Now that flying season is just about over here, I finally got my plane dialed in. I guess its time to find some ski's for flying off snow.
Old 10-03-2013, 04:48 AM
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Interesting post...congratulations on sorting it out.

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