Tired of wondering if nitrous will work
11-14-2003, 02:57 PM
#27
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RE: Tired of wondering if nitrous will work
you can get them at a smoke shop. there called whip its. but dont call them that when you buy them. you have to tell them that there for a whip cream disspencer since thats what their really used for. since your from chicago there is a place on the wisconson boarder in kenosha. its called superved video "i think thats how tou spell it". its on I94 and HWY 50. e-mail me for imformation. johnnyride1 @ yahoo.com
11-14-2003, 06:26 PM
#28
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
ORIGINAL: TheMachine
When your talking engine compression I know a full dose of NO2 basically increases your compression ratio by about 10 times, depends on the dose/jet rate, also the general advisement for NO2 use in full size cars is that you want to be in at least 3rd gear, pulling only half of your redline when you hit the button...engine RPM usually doubles rapidly...and an over-rev with NO2 is not pretty. I have also seen some systems where they inject 2 stoke oil with or after the NO2 squirt..cools things down apparently.
When your talking engine compression I know a full dose of NO2 basically increases your compression ratio by about 10 times, depends on the dose/jet rate, also the general advisement for NO2 use in full size cars is that you want to be in at least 3rd gear, pulling only half of your redline when you hit the button...engine RPM usually doubles rapidly...and an over-rev with NO2 is not pretty. I have also seen some systems where they inject 2 stoke oil with or after the NO2 squirt..cools things down apparently.
11-14-2003, 07:45 PM
#29
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
ORIGINAL: Billyman
This is a prime example of the blind leading the blind.
ORIGINAL: TheMachine
When your talking engine compression I know a full dose of NO2 basically increases your compression ratio by about 10 times, depends on the dose/jet rate, also the general advisement for NO2 use in full size cars is that you want to be in at least 3rd gear, pulling only half of your redline when you hit the button...engine RPM usually doubles rapidly...and an over-rev with NO2 is not pretty. I have also seen some systems where they inject 2 stoke oil with or after the NO2 squirt..cools things down apparently.
When your talking engine compression I know a full dose of NO2 basically increases your compression ratio by about 10 times, depends on the dose/jet rate, also the general advisement for NO2 use in full size cars is that you want to be in at least 3rd gear, pulling only half of your redline when you hit the button...engine RPM usually doubles rapidly...and an over-rev with NO2 is not pretty. I have also seen some systems where they inject 2 stoke oil with or after the NO2 squirt..cools things down apparently.
TM
11-14-2003, 08:46 PM
#30
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
TheMachine, don’t take it personal, it seems you yourself have been misinformed. (This stuff happens).
So, to enlighten you….
Now, to help you understand nitrous oxide and why and how it works.
Most of this coming from memory and experience, so if you find information that is incorrect, good for you, correct me as necessary.
Your engine needs three things to operate: fuel, oxygen, and fire. The more fuel you can burn, the more power it puts out. Problems arise when too large a carburetor, too large fuel injectors (if fuel injection), or too large ports or valves are added beyond the capabilities of that particular engine. It just can’t burn oll the extra fuel being added without flooding out.
Supercharges and turbos add oxygen yes, which makes the fuel burn more efficiently. But the actual horsepower and torque gain comes from the increased cylinder pressure. Almost, but not quite, the equivalent as raising the compression ratio of the cylinders. You can put in all the different camshafts, valve train components you like, but nothing will give you more, easy, horsepower than raising compression. (If you wanted to stick to natural aspiration)
N2O, does things just a little differently. It actually provides the cylinder with oxygen. Nitrous Oxide contains 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and 1% other gases. When N2O is heated to (if I remember correctly) around 574 degrees, it breaks down, releasing all that oxygen. The nitrogen acts as a buffer to keep the cylinder pressure down. (helps keep the cylinder head from blowing off)
With a “dry system†(N20 emitted only) it makes power with the existing fuel that is already there. (Believe it or not, there is a lot of gas your car never burns) N2O makes sure that 99% of it in fact is, thus more horsepower and torque. But be warned, dry systems are only safe up to a certain horsepower rating. This depends on the engines size. Example: A stock Honda Civic with a four banger couldn’t safely take more than a 100 hp shot of N2O and that’s pushing it. A larger stock (say a V8) engine could take as much as a 175 hp shot, but I still wouldn’t recommend it.
With a “wet system†(N2O and fuel) emitted, you can go hog wild with the hp rated shots up to the point where it over comes the materials and the “hardware†of the engine. (pistons, crank, rods, etc.) With the wet system delivering fuel along with the nitrous, the increased N2O amount is compensated with that of the extra fuel delivery. Thus burning even more fuel because of more oxygen giving more hp and torque. All nitrous systems use jets to meter the amount of N2O. And on wet systems the same goes for the fuel. On the systems, the nitrous scientist have already figured out what jet size makes X amount of power on X size engine. On wet system they also already know that X amount of N2O needs X amount of extra fuel on X size engine. Yes there is a formula, I don’t know it, I don’t have too, we have a handy dandy little chart at work to eliminate the guesswork and figuring.
Nitrous Oxide is to never be used except at wide open throttle. With nitrous being delivered into an engine that is at not running, at idle or part throttle gives means for a catastrophe.
When used correctly, with proper installation, nitrous can be 100% safe. Will it shorten your vehicles life? NO, your foot will do that. Will it blow up my engine? Only if it was improperly installed or there is a system malfunction. Is it worth the money? Damn skippy. N2O is dollar for dollar the cheapest form of hp on the market.
The above was from another forum where I had posted that 2 years ago (but for cars/trucks).
To address other thingies: `
Nitrous is about 127 degrees when it enters the cylinder. Sounds hot doesn’t it? Not when the cylinder is 200. The nitrous itself “cools†the cylinder as well as the intake air charge (depending on the system).
I’ve been been selling, installing, refilling etc, nitrous and nitrous systems for 10 years and I’ve never heard of injecting oil with nitrous. That sounds useless and stupid.
So, to enlighten you….
Now, to help you understand nitrous oxide and why and how it works.
Most of this coming from memory and experience, so if you find information that is incorrect, good for you, correct me as necessary.
Your engine needs three things to operate: fuel, oxygen, and fire. The more fuel you can burn, the more power it puts out. Problems arise when too large a carburetor, too large fuel injectors (if fuel injection), or too large ports or valves are added beyond the capabilities of that particular engine. It just can’t burn oll the extra fuel being added without flooding out.
Supercharges and turbos add oxygen yes, which makes the fuel burn more efficiently. But the actual horsepower and torque gain comes from the increased cylinder pressure. Almost, but not quite, the equivalent as raising the compression ratio of the cylinders. You can put in all the different camshafts, valve train components you like, but nothing will give you more, easy, horsepower than raising compression. (If you wanted to stick to natural aspiration)
N2O, does things just a little differently. It actually provides the cylinder with oxygen. Nitrous Oxide contains 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and 1% other gases. When N2O is heated to (if I remember correctly) around 574 degrees, it breaks down, releasing all that oxygen. The nitrogen acts as a buffer to keep the cylinder pressure down. (helps keep the cylinder head from blowing off)
With a “dry system†(N20 emitted only) it makes power with the existing fuel that is already there. (Believe it or not, there is a lot of gas your car never burns) N2O makes sure that 99% of it in fact is, thus more horsepower and torque. But be warned, dry systems are only safe up to a certain horsepower rating. This depends on the engines size. Example: A stock Honda Civic with a four banger couldn’t safely take more than a 100 hp shot of N2O and that’s pushing it. A larger stock (say a V8) engine could take as much as a 175 hp shot, but I still wouldn’t recommend it.
With a “wet system†(N2O and fuel) emitted, you can go hog wild with the hp rated shots up to the point where it over comes the materials and the “hardware†of the engine. (pistons, crank, rods, etc.) With the wet system delivering fuel along with the nitrous, the increased N2O amount is compensated with that of the extra fuel delivery. Thus burning even more fuel because of more oxygen giving more hp and torque. All nitrous systems use jets to meter the amount of N2O. And on wet systems the same goes for the fuel. On the systems, the nitrous scientist have already figured out what jet size makes X amount of power on X size engine. On wet system they also already know that X amount of N2O needs X amount of extra fuel on X size engine. Yes there is a formula, I don’t know it, I don’t have too, we have a handy dandy little chart at work to eliminate the guesswork and figuring.
Nitrous Oxide is to never be used except at wide open throttle. With nitrous being delivered into an engine that is at not running, at idle or part throttle gives means for a catastrophe.
When used correctly, with proper installation, nitrous can be 100% safe. Will it shorten your vehicles life? NO, your foot will do that. Will it blow up my engine? Only if it was improperly installed or there is a system malfunction. Is it worth the money? Damn skippy. N2O is dollar for dollar the cheapest form of hp on the market.
The above was from another forum where I had posted that 2 years ago (but for cars/trucks).
To address other thingies: `
Nitrous is about 127 degrees when it enters the cylinder. Sounds hot doesn’t it? Not when the cylinder is 200. The nitrous itself “cools†the cylinder as well as the intake air charge (depending on the system).
I’ve been been selling, installing, refilling etc, nitrous and nitrous systems for 10 years and I’ve never heard of injecting oil with nitrous. That sounds useless and stupid.
11-14-2003, 09:09 PM
#31
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
[sm=thumbup.gif]great job... i can take the time to explain all of that but it all seems to be correct to me![sm=thumbup.gif]
11-14-2003, 10:16 PM
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
All of that is exactly right. I use a 75 shot on my Honda CRX. I went from A 13.9 in the 1/4 with the stock motor to a 12.7 with nitrous. In case you are wondering, this kills Vettes in the 1/4. As far as when to use it, i use it whenever the throttle is wide open, except for below 3500 rpm, the motor is not pulling enough air or fuel at that low of rpm, or in 5th gear. It is hard on the overdrive gear. It is true that if you hit the REV-LIMITER or FUEL CUT OFF, whatever you want to call it, you will be injecting pure nitrous and no fuel. THIS IS BAD. My buddy did that on his mustang and it blew the intake manifold off and 1 bolt went through the fiberglass hood. but as long as you make sure everything is right, nitrous should be cool on the R/C car. Just remember, nitrous will not give your car a higher top speed, it will only help it accelerate faster. You may have know this but i was just makin sure. Anyways good luck, and let me know how it goes.
11-17-2003, 08:55 PM
#34
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
Yeah,I've never heard of oil injection.I have heard of water injection though but thats at the very last stage of a monster engine.
At the moment,I'm stuck.My "tank" is not holding that much pressure so I need to tap the little nitrous bottle itself...heres the hard part.I bet this is where Lasershop is stuck at too,lol.I have to search down some fittings and probably machine a few parts before it ever gets on the car but I'll at least fire up the engine in the next week and introduce a little nitrous to the intake to see what kind of RPM increase it has.As with a real car with nitrous,I'm gonna order some colder plugs..maybe a few OS R5's.
At the moment,I'm stuck.My "tank" is not holding that much pressure so I need to tap the little nitrous bottle itself...heres the hard part.I bet this is where Lasershop is stuck at too,lol.I have to search down some fittings and probably machine a few parts before it ever gets on the car but I'll at least fire up the engine in the next week and introduce a little nitrous to the intake to see what kind of RPM increase it has.As with a real car with nitrous,I'm gonna order some colder plugs..maybe a few OS R5's.
11-17-2003, 09:01 PM
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RE: Tired of wondering if nitrous will work
ORIGINAL: GALAXY
Lol,if you inhale nitrogen you might freeze your throat.Laughing gas IS Nitrous Oxide...not nitrogen.Yep,they're whippets
Lol,if you inhale nitrogen you might freeze your throat.Laughing gas IS Nitrous Oxide...not nitrogen.Yep,they're whippets
idea: try getting the small tanks for paintball guns (small cans, i know they come in 20, and ive seen smalled) take and empty one and fill it up w/ N2O... find a way to get more fuel to the engine for correct mixture... develope a type of fuel rail(?) with injectors?
how r u plaining on injecting the nitrous?, youll need a pump and such.
11-17-2003, 09:54 PM
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
ORIGINAL: GALAXY
Yeah,I've never heard of oil injection.I have heard of water injection though but thats at the very last stage of a monster engine.
Yeah,I've never heard of oil injection.I have heard of water injection though but thats at the very last stage of a monster engine.
As with a real car with nitrous,I'm gonna order some colder plugs..maybe a few OS R5's.
11-17-2003, 10:56 PM
#37
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
Actually ,I read about the water injection for cars with nitrous ...but hey,at least I'm on the right track.lol.I'm pretty sure it was an issue of Popular Mechanics and there was a silver Supra with over 1000 HP,I think that was his next step or one of the last things he was gonna do.If anyone read that article and I'm wrong,let me know.
On the Nitrogen...I've never inhaled it but it seems to me if it was compressed in the tank it would be pretty cold coming out,and the way liquid nitrogen freezes things...........thats where I got that,never assumed it would be room temp.
How am I gonna inject the nitrous?
It will be under pressure in a tank at a pretty high PSI as far as I can tell,so to lower the PSI from the tank it will go through a flow control valve to get to a more useable pressure.After that will be some sort of on/off valve connected to a switching servo,either a ball valve or small solenoid will work for this.Out of the on/off valve a line will run to the intake "manifold" ,which is just a 1'' tube between the air filter and carb.Assuming it all works the way I think it will,when the compression increases in the engine from the nitrous...so will the exhaust pressure into the fuel tank,providing more fuel to fix the lean condition created by the nitrous.
When it works,all that would be needed to run the car is to put a "bottle" in the holder and twist a knob to puncture it...charging the system.The adjustable flow control valve would control how much you get with the on/off action but if it was adjusted already from the last time you wouldn't need to mess with it.
Soon,Soon....
On the Nitrogen...I've never inhaled it but it seems to me if it was compressed in the tank it would be pretty cold coming out,and the way liquid nitrogen freezes things...........thats where I got that,never assumed it would be room temp.
How am I gonna inject the nitrous?
It will be under pressure in a tank at a pretty high PSI as far as I can tell,so to lower the PSI from the tank it will go through a flow control valve to get to a more useable pressure.After that will be some sort of on/off valve connected to a switching servo,either a ball valve or small solenoid will work for this.Out of the on/off valve a line will run to the intake "manifold" ,which is just a 1'' tube between the air filter and carb.Assuming it all works the way I think it will,when the compression increases in the engine from the nitrous...so will the exhaust pressure into the fuel tank,providing more fuel to fix the lean condition created by the nitrous.
When it works,all that would be needed to run the car is to put a "bottle" in the holder and twist a knob to puncture it...charging the system.The adjustable flow control valve would control how much you get with the on/off action but if it was adjusted already from the last time you wouldn't need to mess with it.
Soon,Soon....
11-17-2003, 11:36 PM
#38
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
Ok is it just me but i want to see a purge valve. I would get a kit and just use it as a purge. i think it would be great to roll up on the starting line and then purge a little.
I dont know about yall but that would be sweet to me.
I dont know about yall but that would be sweet to me.
11-17-2003, 11:37 PM
#39
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
The NO2 system(with oil) I refered to was used with LPG gas, it was at a LPG gas fitters workshop I saw the system....It was supposed to be the latest thing out of america. They used a computer controlled liquified LPG injection system, when you put your foot right into it, the computer started injecting NO2 as well, at this point is where the 2-stroke oil was also injected to keep the valves cool and lubed. The engines intake manifold(in this case a Ford 351 Clevland in a XB coupe) with this setup had 3 injectors/jets per cylinder, 1 for LPG, 1 for NO2 and 1 for the 2 stroke oil. For that matter injection of oil, NO2 or not is quiet common, its usually refered to as upper cylinder lubricant, some systems/oils have a octane boost added to the mix also for obvious reasons !
The use of this system(and any NO2 system) was however deemed illegal for street use in Australia, the NO2 system itself is legal but its not legal to carry the NO2 cylinder in a road vehicle.
Most of the so called dry NO2 systems I have seen in Australia have been on fuel injected vehicles...and of course the system is set-up to up the fuel rate when the NO2 shot is started.
Also I have used water injection on one of my motors(big ugly and uncivilised 355 chev), its not too uncommon on petrol powered vehicles, usually its a 50/50 mix of methanol and water which is injected or sprayed into the manifold under WOT.... it was just somthing to play with as many performance shops do sell water injection systems for turbo cars etc.
TM
The use of this system(and any NO2 system) was however deemed illegal for street use in Australia, the NO2 system itself is legal but its not legal to carry the NO2 cylinder in a road vehicle.
Most of the so called dry NO2 systems I have seen in Australia have been on fuel injected vehicles...and of course the system is set-up to up the fuel rate when the NO2 shot is started.
Also I have used water injection on one of my motors(big ugly and uncivilised 355 chev), its not too uncommon on petrol powered vehicles, usually its a 50/50 mix of methanol and water which is injected or sprayed into the manifold under WOT.... it was just somthing to play with as many performance shops do sell water injection systems for turbo cars etc.
TM
11-20-2003, 06:34 PM
#43
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
I ran across Gear-Heads Nitrous name help thread and it reminded me why I made this thread...Too much hype and no product.It will work,someone just has to figure out a way to do it right.In this thread you can "watch" me develop a system and help with ideas...seems everyone else is doing it by themselves without many outside ideas,thus running into problems and taking too long. haha,imagine the potential if the "Big 3" worked on it together...too bad capitalism won't allow that,lol.
11-20-2003, 07:06 PM
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
ORIGINAL: GALAXY
Too much hype and no product.It will work,someone just has to figure out a way to do it right.
Too much hype and no product.It will work,someone just has to figure out a way to do it right.
11-20-2003, 09:12 PM
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
My next project is a four stroke. I ordered one from tower. Its an OS 40
with a pull start. Im definitely going to design and mill out a blower (there
goes my next year)., but I want something that looks allot better with a
much lower profile. Imm thinking to mount the carb side draft on top of
the blower. Probably be hard to start but that RB design just don't float
my boat. What ya' think?
with a pull start. Im definitely going to design and mill out a blower (there
goes my next year)., but I want something that looks allot better with a
much lower profile. Imm thinking to mount the carb side draft on top of
the blower. Probably be hard to start but that RB design just don't float
my boat. What ya' think?
11-20-2003, 10:54 PM
#46
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
Truth be known, it doesn't mine either but I know of no other. And I don't have the free time to design and machine the parts for my self.
You planning on a roots type or centrifugal? Because I’ve been thinking roots.
You planning on a roots type or centrifugal? Because I’ve been thinking roots.
11-21-2003, 08:47 AM
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
I don't think I have the time for proper blower rotor lobe
configuration. I figured out that the RB is not much more
than a squirrel fan. Correct me if im wrong. But I figured,
if the boost is directed correctly and at those RPM's it
should be adequate. I dont really have time for any of
this either. I work seven days. But I dig all this all so much
I make time. (Under 40, "dig" means "like" or "really like")
configuration. I figured out that the RB is not much more
than a squirrel fan. Correct me if im wrong. But I figured,
if the boost is directed correctly and at those RPM's it
should be adequate. I dont really have time for any of
this either. I work seven days. But I dig all this all so much
I make time. (Under 40, "dig" means "like" or "really like")
11-21-2003, 02:06 PM
#49
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
I think a supercharger or turbo would work too,as long as it didn't blow the air fuel mix right out of the cylinder with too much pressure.I've blown air into the carb via my mouth and a long tube and have slowly moved the piston through its full stroke.There is barely any time that the intake and exhaust are open at the same time,where I can blow air right out through the engine.
11-21-2003, 03:28 PM
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RE: Tired of wondering if <span class=
turbos and superchargers dont work on 2 stroke engines. This is because the air/fuel ports on the sleeve are open at the same time as the exhaust port. So the air and fuel would go in and out.