clolson

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For some reason today I'm fascinated by the Waco cabin biplanes. I've never seen an ARF for one of these. I can build kits, but I don't think I have the time/energy at this point in my life to do a complete scratch built project from plans only. I'd like to do something that is on the bigger side ... maybe 0.90-1.20 sized? I can't get too crazy big though. There are probably standard, well known sources for this stuff, but I haven't really done any scale R/C and I'm having a terrible time coming up with anything online. (google) Maybe it's the huge variety of random 3 character names that Waco used for it's aircraft? Maybe kit cutters don't have a big presence on the net? Does anyone have any ideas or pointers to something suitable?

Thanks,

Curt.

scalebldr

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sterling made a waco sre kit years ago you may find one on ebay.i was lokking for a set of plans to build the sre but have not found any yet.holman does not have them m.a.n has some waco's but not the sre.

RGM

My Feedback: (5)

Dario Brisighella did plans for a 1/4 scale ARE many years ago that were gorgeous. His plans were some of the best ever presented IMO. He designed it around the old, mag type Quadra 35, which was a good old workhorse, but when compared to a modern 1.20 really isn't really anything special. So I don't think it would be all that much beyond your parameters. Any number of the kit cutters can cut a kit for you. Dario is no longer with us, but his plans are still available from Dario Jr. PM or email me for his email addy if you're interested.

clolson

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I found a review for Dario's Waco ARE plans that was very complimentary. I see that Fiberglass specialties does the cowl and wheel pants. However, I can't turn up anyone who has the plans available. So yes, if you have contact info for Dario Jr. and he still sells the plans, please pass that along to me. Or if we can't get ahold of Dario Jr. these days, are there any other Waco Cabin bipe plans (in the same size range) floating around?

Thanks,

Curt.

Lake Flyer

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Try www.vintagercplans.com They have plans for the SRE with a wing span of 69 1/2 ".
That's all I know about them.
After giving this some more thought somewhere in the deep dark recesses of my brain I seem to recall that Norm Rosenstock did a Waco Cabin bipe of some type and it may have been available in two sizes. Give him a try at [email protected] .

susquach

My Feedback: (1)

I share your misery Clolson.....seems like there ain't no easy way to get there from here. Why, out of all the kits in all the world there isn't ONE Waco cabin kit. Makes a Waco cabin lover feel plumb deprived.

Besides the fore-mentioned, there's a neat little AGC-8 plan (by Fred Reese) offered by RCM. It's smaller than you may be interested in at 44' span. It was designed for a .15 to .25. Of course, there's always the option of using the outline to enlarge to suit.......which is what I'm in the process of doing. Sometimes the building process starts with a sharp pencil and freezer paper.

Believe there is another non-AR plan floating 'round out there, but I don't know who offers it.

BTW, the frustrating alphabet nomenclature may be aggravating, but not arbitrary. Got the breakdown 'round here somewhere....if I can find it, I'll post it. Won't even attempt to remember the engine/airframe designations cause sure as shoot'n I'll screw it up.

clolson

My Feedback: (7)

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out the world of scale modeling, plans, kit cutters, etc. There are some really talented folks out there doing this stuff, but it doesn't appear that anyone is getting rich off it. Many of the people that have done plans or kits in the past are no longer with us, or many of them just do it in their spare time and don't have real web pages or big time businesses. It's a shame there isn't a bigger market for this stuff, but I guess it takes a properly warped individual to want to tackle one of these scratch building projects in the first place, and there proably aren't a lot of people who are that crazy while still being amazingly patient and persistant and focused. :-) I'm not sure I can count myself as part of that select group just yet, but it's really tempting to want to take the plunge ... especially since there are no Waco SRE ARF's to cheat with.

Let me try to summarize what I've found so far for Waco cabin bipes.

1. My best bet so far is a Fred Novack plan for a 69.5" wing span Waco SRE. (Thats 1/6th scale if I did my math right.) It's available at http://www.vintagercplans.com/ and Kit Cutters, Inc. can cut the curvey parts out for you. Cowl and wheel pants are available from Fred or from Fiberglass Specialties. A 90 four-stroke should pull it nicely.

2. There are some larger (1/4 scale) Waco SRE plans by Dario Brisighella (who is no longer with us) that are supposedly still available through his son. The references I've seen suggest these are the ultra-high quality plans. I've sent off email, but haven't heard anything back. Cowl and wheel pants are still available from Fiberglass Specialties, and someone there thought they might have a lead for tracking down at least a copy of the plans. I can pass along the son's email if someone wants to try that route, but I don't want to post it here for the spammers.

3. There is a guy on ebay selling plans for an 88" Waco HKS-7. As best as I can tell, these are plans only, taken from a kit originally designed by Norm Rosenstock. These are minus the original kit, so my guess is that they are just copies of the original plans, although I suppose if they are good copies, there's nothing wrong with that.

4. Sterling made a 40-60 size Waco SRE kit, but I haven't seen one of those come up on ebay and I've kind of been watching as much as possible.

5. There are some smaller plans and kits for the Waco SRE out there, but I'm angling for something on the larger side (90+ size) so I haven't paid much attention to those.

I've found other little bits and pieces of leads, but these are the most concrete things I have to go on so far. The Fred Novack 1/6th scale route seems like my most promising option so far. Everything is there and ready to be purchased. Fred can be readily reached via email, I just have to build. And if I try to think rationally for a moment, 1/6th scale would probably fit better in my house and car than 1/4 scale. Although a big 1/4 scale version would be so sweet ... I guess I need to do less day dreaming and more building ... :-)

Hey, if I get going with anything, I'll post my progress here.

Regards,

Curt.

Donnie7

I have a 120 size 1/5 scale Pica waco and it came with the cabin option. I didn't go with that though.
Donnie

chuck l

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Cox purchased the line of Pica products and intends to bring the Waco 1/5 scale back out sometime this fall. That's straight from the Cox salesman.

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

Over the years I built 3 of the Pica 1/5 scale Wacos. Loved em all but lost them due to radio failure, etc. I really would like to build a tricycle geared cabin Waco from plans. I just happen to have a G-62 sitting around that is out of work and needs a job hauling around a 1/4 scale cabin Waco.

I sent Dario Brisighella Jr. an e-mail from an address that I had for him from about 2 years ago but it bounced. I Googled the Waco ARE but found only one reference and no photos. Seems that only 4 were built and the only one that still exists is in need of restoration.

Curt, did you read the review of Dario's plans on the internet? If anyone has a lead on plans for a tricycle geared cabin Waco suitable for an out of work G62, then please speak up.

It's off the subject but here's my latest biplane. It's a 1/3 scale BĂĽcker Jungmeister.

Ken

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Wow, I thought I was the only person who did not find the trike geared cabin WACOs ugly. They are ZVNs. I would really like to one someday.

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Just found this link for WACO drawings: http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/WebPDF/waco.pdf
May help if you have to do your own plans, or for documentation.

clolson

My Feedback: (7)

I emailed a guy (Craig?) at Fiberglass Specialties Inc. who thought he had a potential source for a copy of the 1/4" scale Waco ARE plans by Dario B. but wouldn't be able to get ahold of them until end of July. If Dario Jr. is still selling them, I'd prefer to buy an "original" from him. I'm pretty new to the scale modelng world, but I assume that copying plans other than for personal use would be a last resort for when the author is no longer able to sell them? That might be the only option here if no one can track down Dario Jr.

I did see the web review for Dario's ARE plans and it was quite complimentary. These look like the plans to get if you are really serious scale builder.

Fred Novack plans aren't too shabby either from what I've seen so scaling them up from 1/6th to 1/5th or 1/4 might be another option. I've never tried anything like that, but I assume that would introduce various size and joint and sheeting and stringer issues, not to mention potential structural issues.

I mean no disrespect here, but I can't for the life of me figure out why you'd want to convert one of these into a tricycle gear! :-) Might as well turn it into a low winger and square off the tail surfaces and wing tips while you are at it. :-) Just kidding of course. :-) Did Waco ever make a tricycle gear version of one of these? All the pictures I've ever seen have been tail draggers.

Hey, it turns out I have a picture of an older Waco cabin bipe in my archives:

http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/Phot.../IMG_0305.html
http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/Phot.../IMG_0306.html

This is NC12741 which is a Waco UEC manufactured in 1932.

Sweet, sweet, sweet airplanes!

Curt.

clolson

My Feedback: (7)

Somehow the pictures of real tricycle gear wacos got posted after I started my reply but before I clicked ok to post, so I see now that they actual did exist. I still find it a little disturbing to look at these pictures, but hopefully I'll get through it without too much long term psychological damage. :-)

Curt.

Big_Bird

My Feedback: (1)

Curt, you may need professional help for your trike geared problem. Personally I think they are beautiful. I haven't had a trike geared plane in at least 30 years. All of my big birds are tail draggers.

Thanks for the photos TLH101.

Ken

abufletcher

Curt, no you aren't insane! The trike gear version IS seriously UUUUGLY!!! But I suppose sometimes ugly can translate into a novel and unique model. Now on the other hand, if we can find the individual responsible for designing this gear, maybe HE needs to be in therapy!

Oh! Here's a little known experimental attempt to improve the ground handling of Manfred's triplane.

4Stroker

My Feedback: (33)

Ikon N'Wst makes, or made, an 88" span kit of the Waco HKS-7. A really nice-looking cabin bipe! Didn't see it on their web site but you might give them a call. Hope this helps and good luck.

Ken-h

My Feedback: (3)

Hi Guys,

I just stumbled across this thread and I am very interested in finding large-scale plans for the SRE as well. I have the Sterling SRE I built and flew for only one season. Its covered with super-coverite fabric and painted in the factory colors of cream and red. I loved looking at it so much I retired it in like new condition and its now a piece of art work in our new house.

I have a Zenoah laying around I would love to put in an SRE. I tried talking Ikon West years ago into kitting the SRE when he was kitting the HKS but he said the HKS was more appealing to him. To me the SRE has the cleanest lines of all the Waco bipes and I believe I read seven or nine were ever produced of the “E’s”.

Really want to build a plane like this to put on floats. I’ve seen some picks of some of the cabin Waco’s on floats and they look incredible. To have a big Beach Stagger Wing and the SRE would be dream come true.

Please let us know if any of you have any luck finding these plans, I’ll do the same.

Ken

clolson

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Hi Ken,

Here's what I have so far. Fred Novack has plans for a 69.5" WS Waco SRE at http://www.vintagercplans.com/ Kit Cutters Inc. will cut out a kit for you for somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 I think. You can get the cowl and wheel pants from Fiberglass Specialties. I emailed Fred this week and he was quite helpful and answered all my dumb questions.

There is a larger option for a Waco ARE (which seems quite similar to the SRE) with an 87" WS. The plans are offered by the son of the original designer for $65 including shipping. I just emailed him this week and the plans are available. I'm attaching a picture. Google for "dario waco are plans" and you should turn up a review of these planes by fly-imaa.org which is quite complimentary. Unfortunately he doesn't really advertise or post his contact info anyplace, but I can forward his email address to you in PM if you like. I don't want to post it here for the spam harvesters. Cowl and wheel pants for this larger version are also available from Fiberglass specialties.

At the moment I'm somewhat torn. The practical side of me is saying the smaller version would be a much better match for my house and car, but I have been flying a 9' WS Rascal 110 in connection with my day job (I'm not complaining) :-) and I have to say that bigger most definitely is better. However, the big Dario design builds as a one piece wing so I may have to get out the blow torch and hacksaw to fit it into my car if I build it.

I need to polish off a few other projects in the mean time so I have a bit of time to think about what I want to do, but it seems like it would be hard to go wrong with either choice. Like you say, once you see one of these, it's really hard to get it out of your head. :-) These golden age designs really are about as beautiful as it gets.

Curt.

Ken-h

My Feedback: (3)

Curt,

Thank you very much for the information. I’ve have three airplanes myself I’ll need to get completed before I will be able to start on something like this. The 69” one sounds like a great glow project as well. May have to get the plans for both. I looked into Dario’s plans about a year ago and found nothing. The big one is really appealing to me and would make an excellent scale project. The ARE and SRE are almost the same I believe. Anyway, It’s a beautiful airplane to say the least. Thanks again,

Ken

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Main difference in the ARE & SRE was the powerplant. Here is some info from Aerofiles.com :
http://www.aerofiles.com/_waco.html


ARE, WRE Aristocrat 1940 (ATC 714) = 4pCswB; 300hp Jacobs L-6; span: 34'9" length: 27'9" load: 470# v: 185/155/57 range: 1250. $14,900; POP: 4 [NC20951, NC20953, NC20957, NC29376], of which the last one was impressed by USAAF as UC-72A. 4-5p WRE with 420hp Wright R-975 was offered in advertisements, but was never built.

SRE Aristocrat 1940 (ATC 714) = 4pCswB; 450hp P&W R-985 Wasp; span: 34'9" length: 27'10". $18,000; POP: 21, of which 13 were impressed by USAAF as UC-72.

GoldenAge

Ugly Waco[sm=confused.gif][sm=confused.gif][sm=confused.gif] There's no such thing as an ugly Waco! I have the Sterling Waco SRE framed up and hanging in the shop. Got to get it covered soon.

Ken-h

My Feedback: (3)

Goldenage,

Here is a picture of my Sterling Waco in the rafters of my house. I flew it with a Satio 65 and it flew great. It did however give no warning when it was going to stall. It would not tip stall or anything like that, just tended to fall out of the sky quite quickly. It’s also prone to ground looping but not hard to deal with. Pretty small vertical stab I believe is the reason. The plane was very aerobatic but what the fun in that with this airplane. You’re right, these Waco's are beautiful aircraft.

Ken

GoldenAge

That's one fine looking Waco you have there! I've heard they fly pretty good. I'm going to have to finish mine after I get another project done.

clolson

My Feedback: (7)

For what it's worth, I went ahead and ordered a set of plans from Dario ... going for the *big* option. Don't hold your breath, but when I get things started I'll try to post a few pictures here once in a while.

Curt.