Tape your crystal in!
07-07-2005, 07:40 PM
#51
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: aresti2004
I'm sorry, but if you need to tape your crystal in to keep it from vibrating out you have something SERIOUSLY wrong with your installation. Properly installed, the crystal should NEVER vibrate out. Period. So before you start taping, why not correct the problem that is causing your crystal to vibrate so much??
Just a thought.
I'm sorry, but if you need to tape your crystal in to keep it from vibrating out you have something SERIOUSLY wrong with your installation. Properly installed, the crystal should NEVER vibrate out. Period. So before you start taping, why not correct the problem that is causing your crystal to vibrate so much??
Just a thought.
Agree 100% if something is vibrating that much you have issues well beyond taping a crystal.
Maybe the crystal socket is less strong on some of the other receivers, but on the JR955 it is as snug as a bug in a rug...
DP
07-07-2005, 08:18 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: desertpig
Agree 100% if something is vibrating that much you have issues well beyond taping a crystal.
Maybe the crystal socket is less strong on some of the other receivers, but on the JR955 it is as snug as a bug in a rug...
DP
ORIGINAL: aresti2004
I'm sorry, but if you need to tape your crystal in to keep it from vibrating out you have something SERIOUSLY wrong with your installation. Properly installed, the crystal should NEVER vibrate out. Period. So before you start taping, why not correct the problem that is causing your crystal to vibrate so much??
Just a thought.
I'm sorry, but if you need to tape your crystal in to keep it from vibrating out you have something SERIOUSLY wrong with your installation. Properly installed, the crystal should NEVER vibrate out. Period. So before you start taping, why not correct the problem that is causing your crystal to vibrate so much??
Just a thought.
Agree 100% if something is vibrating that much you have issues well beyond taping a crystal.
Maybe the crystal socket is less strong on some of the other receivers, but on the JR955 it is as snug as a bug in a rug...
DP
I am amazed that people are responding this way. The point of this post was to let other RC pilots learn from a mistake; not identify the cause of it.
07-07-2005, 09:24 PM
#53
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: going vert
Tape (or secure) your crystal.
Tape (or secure) your crystal.
It's amazing how people would argue against, or ignore this very good advice. I'm trying to decide whether it's machoism or invulnerability that is leading the way. Don't wait until it happens to you before you realize that it can happen even on a very well set up and balanced model.
07-07-2005, 09:44 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
After reading this I ran up and checked my crystak! Sure enough it was loose! This is in a "perfect" vibvration proof foamed out instal.. With a balancce CF prop turned by a ST G2300.. Probably around 80 flights! I'm taping mine in..
It is beyond me why people would not heed such simple advice..
It is beyond me why people would not heed such simple advice..
07-08-2005, 04:31 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: Edge
What kind of tape do use and will affect my balance at all?
What kind of tape do use and will affect my balance at all?
07-08-2005, 04:49 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
We are not criticizing a preventive measure, both of us are very experienced (Aresti as a flyer, me as a builder) and neither of us have ever seen a reason to tape a crystal in. It sends up a red flag that is for sure. It doesn't mean its a dumb idea, we were merely stating that if your plane is vibrating enough to have a crystal come loose you either have an imbalance in the powerplant or the receiver mounting is not adequate. It is not normal for a crystal to come loose... ever.
If your canopy was falling apart or your gear bolts constantly coming loose, would you tape it to fix it or would you start to look for the root cause of the problem and ask yourself why is it happening ?? Same goes for the RX crystal. If a crystal falls out or has any hint of coming loose - you have to ask yourself why.
We were not trying to be arrogant, just trying to get you to consider the root cause. Vibration is the #1 enemy in our planes, it is what takes out ignition modules, electronics (rx, servos, etc), loosens hardware and even destroys glue joints. So if enough of it got to the RX, the crystal can get loose.
A Receiver should be mounted such that it is completely isolated from vibration, that means a layer of heavy foam and the use of VELCRO to firmly hold it in place. NEVER use tie-wraps (zip ties). The nylon tie-wraps will couple vibration directly to the RX case and cause all kinds of problems.
Notice the install on my new Yak. The fuel tank, RX, matchboxes are all held in place with Velcro and foam, the powebox is supported by elastic strips to completely isolate it. Even the wiring coming into the powerbox is encased in light foam. Bottom line, vibration to any of the electronics is minimal.
And no, my crystal is not taped in place... I change it when I need to depending on who's flying what frequency....
DP
If your canopy was falling apart or your gear bolts constantly coming loose, would you tape it to fix it or would you start to look for the root cause of the problem and ask yourself why is it happening ?? Same goes for the RX crystal. If a crystal falls out or has any hint of coming loose - you have to ask yourself why.
We were not trying to be arrogant, just trying to get you to consider the root cause. Vibration is the #1 enemy in our planes, it is what takes out ignition modules, electronics (rx, servos, etc), loosens hardware and even destroys glue joints. So if enough of it got to the RX, the crystal can get loose.
A Receiver should be mounted such that it is completely isolated from vibration, that means a layer of heavy foam and the use of VELCRO to firmly hold it in place. NEVER use tie-wraps (zip ties). The nylon tie-wraps will couple vibration directly to the RX case and cause all kinds of problems.
Notice the install on my new Yak. The fuel tank, RX, matchboxes are all held in place with Velcro and foam, the powebox is supported by elastic strips to completely isolate it. Even the wiring coming into the powerbox is encased in light foam. Bottom line, vibration to any of the electronics is minimal.
And no, my crystal is not taped in place... I change it when I need to depending on who's flying what frequency....
DP
07-08-2005, 04:53 PM
#61
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: Flyfalcons
It's amazing how people would argue against, or ignore this very good advice. I'm trying to decide whether it's machoism or invulnerability that is leading the way. Don't wait until it happens to you before you realize that it can happen even on a very well set up and balanced model.
ORIGINAL: going vert
Tape (or secure) your crystal.
Tape (or secure) your crystal.
It's amazing how people would argue against, or ignore this very good advice. I'm trying to decide whether it's machoism or invulnerability that is leading the way. Don't wait until it happens to you before you realize that it can happen even on a very well set up and balanced model.
Could it be arrogance or stupidity? Why risk your investment when a penny's worth of tape and a couple of seconds time add valuable insurance. No matter how well your receiver is isolated there is always a chance something can change so why not take a simple precaution as this one. I think sometimes people just like to feel they know it all and/or like to read their own words. RCU seems to be getting more full of this stuff on a daily basis. I for one appreciate the tip Drew. From now on, tape for me. cbk
07-08-2005, 04:56 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
Well, reading this thread i learned I better get rid of the zip ties on my Rx. I think i will tape in my crystal. I do agree with the idea of making sure that there is not a more serious problem to the crystal coming out as some have argued. Thanks for the good info and discussions.
Michael
Michael
07-08-2005, 05:51 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: cbk07
Could it be arrogance or stupidity? Why risk your investment when a penny's worth of tape and a couple of seconds time add valuable insurance. No matter how well your receiver is isolated there is always a chance something can change so why not take a simple precaution as this one. I think sometimes people just like to feel they know it all and/or like to read their own words. RCU seems to be getting more full of this stuff on a daily basis. I for one appreciate the tip Drew. From now on, tape for me. cbk
Could it be arrogance or stupidity? Why risk your investment when a penny's worth of tape and a couple of seconds time add valuable insurance. No matter how well your receiver is isolated there is always a chance something can change so why not take a simple precaution as this one. I think sometimes people just like to feel they know it all and/or like to read their own words. RCU seems to be getting more full of this stuff on a daily basis. I for one appreciate the tip Drew. From now on, tape for me. cbk
Yep - must be stupidity. I guess I will start taping my canopies on because there is a 1 in a million chance they might start falling off... . Better put 3 wraps of tape on my wheel collars too 'cuz one might fall off and cause me to do a ground loop once in the next 15,000 landings. While I am at it, I guess I better tape my radio battery door shut on my transmitter too, the odds are pretty good at 1,384,000 to one that the battery might fall out on me while I am flying... Yep tape it .. we don't want that happening.
You are right, there are so many things a penny worth of tape and a litte time can help prevent. I guess maybe I better start taping my crystal, I am sure the probability of it coming out are really high.. like 5,000,000 to one. I wonder what else we can prevent with a little tape.
DP
07-08-2005, 06:05 PM
#64
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
I guess I left out sarchasm!!!! Didn't mean anything personal, just thought the tape sounded like a good idea and did not see a negative side to it . My prop bolts sheared off of a DA 150 once and the plane saw vibrations I never imagined it would have just before the prop departed. I promise, I will not be offended if you choose not to use tape. Again, sorry if it sounds like a stupid idea to you. I am off to tape the door shut on my TX!!! cbk
07-08-2005, 08:08 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
Hey Guys,
Amon the sarcasm there is some good info here. I have not taped any of my crystals but intend to.
Here is something I do that is light and secure for your servo wires going into your standard receiver.
I take a small screwdriver and spread each of the extension wires before setting them in the receiver. Plug them into the receiver. Once in place I carefully thread dental floss between the red and black wire of the leads close to the plug, wrap the dental floss around the receiver and knot it tight on the opposite side. A couple of knots and a small drop of thin CA with the zip kicker holds the knot in place and the wires will not pull out even in a 40G crash. (trust me on this one) If you decide to change any of your wires later you can take a razor knife and peel the ca'd knot off of the receiver case and take off the dental floss. No silicone or goop to get in the way - the glue is far away from the plugs.
I also use this technique on my servo extensions. Just keep the CA away from the joints so you can take them apart later if you want to.
Wayne, sorry for your Yak. I will go back in the fleet with an A.D.(airworthiness directive) and check all my crystals.
RDB
Ingelligence is learning from other's mistakes...
Amon the sarcasm there is some good info here. I have not taped any of my crystals but intend to.
Here is something I do that is light and secure for your servo wires going into your standard receiver.
I take a small screwdriver and spread each of the extension wires before setting them in the receiver. Plug them into the receiver. Once in place I carefully thread dental floss between the red and black wire of the leads close to the plug, wrap the dental floss around the receiver and knot it tight on the opposite side. A couple of knots and a small drop of thin CA with the zip kicker holds the knot in place and the wires will not pull out even in a 40G crash. (trust me on this one) If you decide to change any of your wires later you can take a razor knife and peel the ca'd knot off of the receiver case and take off the dental floss. No silicone or goop to get in the way - the glue is far away from the plugs.
I also use this technique on my servo extensions. Just keep the CA away from the joints so you can take them apart later if you want to.
Wayne, sorry for your Yak. I will go back in the fleet with an A.D.(airworthiness directive) and check all my crystals.
RDB
Ingelligence is learning from other's mistakes...
07-08-2005, 08:42 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
And don't forget to Loctite or lock washer every bolt, nut, and screw on the plane. Better iron on another layer of covering, too, in case the first comes loose and pulls off in flight. 
Dr.1
Dr.1
07-08-2005, 09:52 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: desertpig
We are not criticizing a preventive measure, both of us are very experienced (Aresti as a flyer, me as a builder) and neither of us have ever seen a reason to tape a crystal in. It sends up a red flag that is for sure. It doesn't mean its a dumb idea, we were merely stating that if your plane is vibrating enough to have a crystal come loose you either have an imbalance in the powerplant or the receiver mounting is not adequate. It is not normal for a crystal to come loose... ever.
If your canopy was falling apart or your gear bolts constantly coming loose, would you tape it to fix it or would you start to look for the root cause of the problem and ask yourself why is it happening ?? Same goes for the RX crystal. If a crystal falls out or has any hint of coming loose - you have to ask yourself why.
We were not trying to be arrogant, just trying to get you to consider the root cause. Vibration is the #1 enemy in our planes, it is what takes out ignition modules, electronics (rx, servos, etc), loosens hardware and even destroys glue joints. So if enough of it got to the RX, the crystal can get loose.
A Receiver should be mounted such that it is completely isolated from vibration, that means a layer of heavy foam and the use of VELCRO to firmly hold it in place. NEVER use tie-wraps (zip ties). The nylon tie-wraps will couple vibration directly to the RX case and cause all kinds of problems.
Notice the install on my new Yak. The fuel tank, RX, matchboxes are all held in place with Velcro and foam, the powebox is supported by elastic strips to completely isolate it. Even the wiring coming into the powerbox is encased in light foam. Bottom line, vibration to any of the electronics is minimal.
And no, my crystal is not taped in place... I change it when I need to depending on who's flying what frequency....
DP
We are not criticizing a preventive measure, both of us are very experienced (Aresti as a flyer, me as a builder) and neither of us have ever seen a reason to tape a crystal in. It sends up a red flag that is for sure. It doesn't mean its a dumb idea, we were merely stating that if your plane is vibrating enough to have a crystal come loose you either have an imbalance in the powerplant or the receiver mounting is not adequate. It is not normal for a crystal to come loose... ever.
If your canopy was falling apart or your gear bolts constantly coming loose, would you tape it to fix it or would you start to look for the root cause of the problem and ask yourself why is it happening ?? Same goes for the RX crystal. If a crystal falls out or has any hint of coming loose - you have to ask yourself why.
We were not trying to be arrogant, just trying to get you to consider the root cause. Vibration is the #1 enemy in our planes, it is what takes out ignition modules, electronics (rx, servos, etc), loosens hardware and even destroys glue joints. So if enough of it got to the RX, the crystal can get loose.
A Receiver should be mounted such that it is completely isolated from vibration, that means a layer of heavy foam and the use of VELCRO to firmly hold it in place. NEVER use tie-wraps (zip ties). The nylon tie-wraps will couple vibration directly to the RX case and cause all kinds of problems.
Notice the install on my new Yak. The fuel tank, RX, matchboxes are all held in place with Velcro and foam, the powebox is supported by elastic strips to completely isolate it. Even the wiring coming into the powerbox is encased in light foam. Bottom line, vibration to any of the electronics is minimal.
And no, my crystal is not taped in place... I change it when I need to depending on who's flying what frequency....
DP
To each his own..... Based on first hand experience, a crystal can vibrate out of a perfect RX installation / plane setup. You can chose to do what ever you want with that information.
It's unfortunate that a thread that started out with good intentions becomes a flame session. I find that more and more threads are ending this way and it's really too bad.
07-08-2005, 09:59 PM
#69
RE: Tape your crystal in!
Vibration phenomenon is not a very well understood topic by your typical person. There are resonant frequencies that are a function of how your plane is built, how much glue, your engine quality, your wood density, your air frame structure etc etc etc many variables. In some rare cases if that resonant frequency is in line with one that will shake your crystal loose, it will. It's rare but it's real.
I guess if people choose not to do it, it doesn't harm my planes any. So feel free not to do it. [8D]
I guess if people choose not to do it, it doesn't harm my planes any. So feel free not to do it. [8D]
07-08-2005, 10:13 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: desertpig
Notice the install on my new Yak. The fuel tank, RX, matchboxes are all held in place with Velcro and foam, the powebox is supported by elastic strips to completely isolate it. Even the wiring coming into the powerbox is encased in light foam. Bottom line, vibration to any of the electronics is minimal.
And no, my crystal is not taped in place... I change it when I need to depending on who's flying what frequency....
DP
Notice the install on my new Yak. The fuel tank, RX, matchboxes are all held in place with Velcro and foam, the powebox is supported by elastic strips to completely isolate it. Even the wiring coming into the powerbox is encased in light foam. Bottom line, vibration to any of the electronics is minimal.
And no, my crystal is not taped in place... I change it when I need to depending on who's flying what frequency....
DP
07-08-2005, 10:26 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: SitNFly
It doesn't matter if your crystal is taped , javelina, cuz that POS Powerbox is gonna put you in anyway.
It doesn't matter if your crystal is taped , javelina, cuz that POS Powerbox is gonna put you in anyway.
LOL.
Saw someone at the Nats this week have a problem with his because his plane was sitting in the sun with no canopy cover..
07-08-2005, 11:07 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
[/quote]
It doesn't matter if your crystal is taped , javelina, cuz that POS Powerbox is gonna put you in anyway.
[/quote]
LOL!
It doesn't matter if your crystal is taped , javelina, cuz that POS Powerbox is gonna put you in anyway.
[/quote]
LOL!
07-08-2005, 11:42 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
This is a fun one.
I've been flying over 30 years and I've never heard of this. I guess there's always something new to learn. Thanks for starting this thread going vert, and thanks for crashing Wayne,....oh, wait a minute, I didn't mean that! Oh well, I really have learned from this and will always secure my crystals with some secondary method. I used to use Futaba 309's(synthesized) in my big planes when I used to be able to afford it, but I'm back with you lowly crystal guys these days, and I'm glad to have read this.
On the other side of the story, I can't believe people presume to know exactly what caused the crystal to extract itself, nor presume to know your(Wayne's) setup was responsible. Who's to say exactly what is going on in the plane when in the air(especially with Wayne flying
), unless of course you have a camcorder inside the fuse aimed at your crystal.
Thanks again for the heads-up, you've probably just saved many, many people a lot of money.
Bill
I've been flying over 30 years and I've never heard of this. I guess there's always something new to learn. Thanks for starting this thread going vert, and thanks for crashing Wayne,....oh, wait a minute, I didn't mean that! Oh well, I really have learned from this and will always secure my crystals with some secondary method. I used to use Futaba 309's(synthesized) in my big planes when I used to be able to afford it, but I'm back with you lowly crystal guys these days, and I'm glad to have read this.
On the other side of the story, I can't believe people presume to know exactly what caused the crystal to extract itself, nor presume to know your(Wayne's) setup was responsible. Who's to say exactly what is going on in the plane when in the air(especially with Wayne flying
), unless of course you have a camcorder inside the fuse aimed at your crystal.Thanks again for the heads-up, you've probably just saved many, many people a lot of money.
Bill
07-09-2005, 09:07 AM
#74
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
ORIGINAL: desertpig
A Receiver should be mounted such that it is completely isolated from vibration, that means a layer of heavy foam and the use of VELCRO to firmly hold it in place. NEVER use tie-wraps (zip ties). The nylon tie-wraps will couple vibration directly to the RX case and cause all kinds of problems.
A Receiver should be mounted such that it is completely isolated from vibration, that means a layer of heavy foam and the use of VELCRO to firmly hold it in place. NEVER use tie-wraps (zip ties). The nylon tie-wraps will couple vibration directly to the RX case and cause all kinds of problems.
Edge, not to worry, I have a spreadsheet detailing the balance shift, corrected for brand and type of tape as well as how many times you wrap it around the receiver.
07-09-2005, 06:00 PM
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RE: Tape your crystal in!
Sorry for the sarcasm.. I was just having a little fun... I never said it was a bad idea, just that you can't possible hedge every failure. Anyway- I don't really need it because I have 4 receivers in my planes.. lose a crystal or two and I can still land with 1/2 of an airplane under control right?
DP
DP