Sky Master jets?????????
11-23-2006, 10:14 AM
#51
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
Remember all the people slamming Jetlegend, how they "ripped off" Anton? And how they ripped me for daring to disbelive the "party line" and think that maybe JL was in the right? Yeah, well...it's my birthday, so I'm gonna gloat....I WAS RIGHT.
And then the same thing happened to Feibao. But the PR machine has people not knowing what they really saw.
You notice something else, though? 80 Fiberclassics Mig29 kits sold, $800,000. Not one kit made good on. And other major issues with Fiberclassics, and he absconds to Thailand. What happens? NOTHING. In spite of the guy owing a ton of money and planes to people, nobody seems to have a real moral issue with this. They keep ordering up cheap and colorful Composite ARF kits from Andreas as fast as he can make them. Nobody seems to have a problem with his past history, as long as they are getting a good deal.
And the same thing will happen here. If Anton can deliver these extremejets, and it certainly does look like he will, from all the "inside info" I have, people will buy them by the boatload, and he can do whatever he wants to his old customers, nobody is going to say a thing about it, the customers will only see the bargain that they are, nobody is going to not buy them on some forlorn "principle".
He has answered my emails about my order, and all indications seem to be that he fully intends to deliver as advertised, on the dates he is advertising.
And then the same thing happened to Feibao. But the PR machine has people not knowing what they really saw.
You notice something else, though? 80 Fiberclassics Mig29 kits sold, $800,000. Not one kit made good on. And other major issues with Fiberclassics, and he absconds to Thailand. What happens? NOTHING. In spite of the guy owing a ton of money and planes to people, nobody seems to have a real moral issue with this. They keep ordering up cheap and colorful Composite ARF kits from Andreas as fast as he can make them. Nobody seems to have a problem with his past history, as long as they are getting a good deal.
And the same thing will happen here. If Anton can deliver these extremejets, and it certainly does look like he will, from all the "inside info" I have, people will buy them by the boatload, and he can do whatever he wants to his old customers, nobody is going to say a thing about it, the customers will only see the bargain that they are, nobody is going to not buy them on some forlorn "principle".
He has answered my emails about my order, and all indications seem to be that he fully intends to deliver as advertised, on the dates he is advertising.
11-23-2006, 10:48 AM
#52
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
ORIGINAL: FTiano
I don't understand something. Why must we constantly have to "***** Foot" around a topic, when there is a sincere, and sometimes severe, problem with a manufacturer in this industry?
There is an Absolute" reason why some SkyMaster kits are not being delivered and
no one has posted that "reason" here. So, I imagine that all the prospective customers will wait, in good faith, to see what happens in December, or is it January....or perhaps February.
This is NOT meant to be inflammatory, but for crying out loud, in a market place, AND Forum, where we seem to be always looking for the Truth, let's hear it!! It is common knowledge within the "Industry" that Anton is having trouble finding people, and a factory, WITH EXPERIENCE, to work with. The reasons why can be a mixture of several. And those reasons will NEVER be posted in a Public Forum!
I don't understand something. Why must we constantly have to "***** Foot" around a topic, when there is a sincere, and sometimes severe, problem with a manufacturer in this industry?
There is an Absolute" reason why some SkyMaster kits are not being delivered and
no one has posted that "reason" here. So, I imagine that all the prospective customers will wait, in good faith, to see what happens in December, or is it January....or perhaps February.
This is NOT meant to be inflammatory, but for crying out loud, in a market place, AND Forum, where we seem to be always looking for the Truth, let's hear it!! It is common knowledge within the "Industry" that Anton is having trouble finding people, and a factory, WITH EXPERIENCE, to work with. The reasons why can be a mixture of several. And those reasons will NEVER be posted in a Public Forum!
Frank – regarding the p-ussy footing : in addition to some of the answers already posted, I think part of the problem is that it’s very hard for the mod’s to be able to clearly draw the line between what is manufacturer bashing (prohibited), versus openly (& hopefully clamly) discussing genuine problems (permitted). I've been on both sides of the mod fence (doing the moderating, & being moderated), and I can tell you for sure that at times I've gotten it wrong on each side !!
I don’t think it has historically been hard for Anton to find good companies to work with – after all, he’s been through a few so far. Now, with his latest investment partner and latest factory it is his stated aim to put each of those prior partners out of business – and based on the emails I’ve seen, the tactics he is willing to use are, well, interesting. … I probably can’t really go any further – I’ve already had posts deleted for revealing Anton’s exact email wording. (No hard feelings there– I know the mod in question acted in good faith).
Ya know - the guys I feel sorry for here, are the honest, hardworking Skymaster guys who have their personal image tarnished a bit whenever there is another round in the Anton sagas. If anyone has issues with Anton, please don't take it out on the whole Skymaster crew.
Gordon
P.S. Frank – glad to hear that you did not get sucked into that “I’ll pay you later†deal !
11-23-2006, 11:15 AM
#53
Banned
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
MOST of the hardworking, honest Skymaster dealers no longer sell Skymaster. There are a few I like who are still doing it, and they are caught between a rock and a hard place. If they say too much, they may lose some of the new aircraft like the F-4 that may or many not actually get sold through them, and they may get stuck having to dump whatever is in their current inventory at a serious discount or loss. So, I can't blame them for not saying too much.
11-26-2006, 08:42 AM
#54
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
I'm not going to try and beat this one to death. But,in all fairness, Easy Tiger has it right on the money! There seems to be a select bunch of guys who do not want to hear of any wrongdoing, unless it affects them personally. And, so be it.
But, for any person to perpetuate unsubstantiated rumors, lies, myths, sacred cows, old wives tales or otherwise absolutley false information about any person or company, on a site such as RCU, is totally unfair to the members who want the truth.
The TRUTH about Anton, and Skymaster, is this. Truth: First of all, he has either already, or soon will, cut off ALL his U.S.A. and European distributors. Ask Eric and Ali about that. He used them to gain a customer base and then cut the cord so to speak and now deals with prospective customers directly through one of his OWN companies.
Truth: He is releasing UNPROVEN models, models that have had no testing what so ever! And I welcome a Law Suit if anybody out there thinks I'm telling a fib! Truth: When, and notice I did not say IF, one of those untested models comes apart, loses a flying surface, a control surface, a hatch or whatever, crashes, and seriously hurts somebody, believe me, it's gonna be a whole lot more than some dude's wallet that is going to be hurting. This company has the MO of Fiber Classics written all over it!
This is not Bashing anybody, it is simply telling the Truth. No different than if you could identify the suspect in a hit and run accident, a rape or an assault case.
FT
But, for any person to perpetuate unsubstantiated rumors, lies, myths, sacred cows, old wives tales or otherwise absolutley false information about any person or company, on a site such as RCU, is totally unfair to the members who want the truth.
The TRUTH about Anton, and Skymaster, is this. Truth: First of all, he has either already, or soon will, cut off ALL his U.S.A. and European distributors. Ask Eric and Ali about that. He used them to gain a customer base and then cut the cord so to speak and now deals with prospective customers directly through one of his OWN companies.
Truth: He is releasing UNPROVEN models, models that have had no testing what so ever! And I welcome a Law Suit if anybody out there thinks I'm telling a fib! Truth: When, and notice I did not say IF, one of those untested models comes apart, loses a flying surface, a control surface, a hatch or whatever, crashes, and seriously hurts somebody, believe me, it's gonna be a whole lot more than some dude's wallet that is going to be hurting. This company has the MO of Fiber Classics written all over it!
This is not Bashing anybody, it is simply telling the Truth. No different than if you could identify the suspect in a hit and run accident, a rape or an assault case.
FT
11-26-2006, 12:11 PM
#57
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
The only problem I see in Franks truth is I dont remember seeing a "ONLY TEST" proven airframes allowed @ TG. 
Even Cermark with "testing" released the Viper jet with folding spars and rudder issues?, so what is a TEST bed standard? In the hands of John Q public in one month, it was tested faster than the year of Cermark factory testing.
What does test proven have to do with anything? I believe the AMA allows coverage for any modeler putting any combination of building materials and adhesives airborne, or nuts and bolts in the case of heli's, and insures it against accidents.
Even when the AMA turbine board knew RAM production turbine wheels were sub standard from test units they did not void insurance.
ANTON is another MO Fiberclassics, and they have there place in the modeling community just not the RCU JETS community.
Even Cermark with "testing" released the Viper jet with folding spars and rudder issues?, so what is a TEST bed standard? In the hands of John Q public in one month, it was tested faster than the year of Cermark factory testing.
What does test proven have to do with anything? I believe the AMA allows coverage for any modeler putting any combination of building materials and adhesives airborne, or nuts and bolts in the case of heli's, and insures it against accidents.
Even when the AMA turbine board knew RAM production turbine wheels were sub standard from test units they did not void insurance.
ANTON is another MO Fiberclassics, and they have there place in the modeling community just not the RCU JETS community.
11-26-2006, 12:51 PM
#58
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
Hey if all this censorship is screwing the truth up... should we put up our own forum where we can all speak our mind without worrying about being "moderated"? I can imagine the difficulty of distinguishing the difference between bashing and honesty and I am sure no moderators have any personal agenda's. But would a completely censorship free forum be of benefit or would it become a virtual "ghetto"?
11-26-2006, 01:04 PM
#59
RE: Sky Master jets?????????
It is very difficult being a moderator. You cannot please all of the people all of the time. Pointless to try.
There are some who say moderators are like nappies (daipers I believe in the US) they both benefit from being changed regularly & usually for the same reason. Others say they carry out a thankless task for no reward.
I have a few run ins with the mods now & again, but in general they do a good job.
Regards
Jim
There are some who say moderators are like nappies (daipers I believe in the US) they both benefit from being changed regularly & usually for the same reason. Others say they carry out a thankless task for no reward.
I have a few run ins with the mods now & again, but in general they do a good job.
Regards
Jim
11-26-2006, 02:23 PM
#62
RE: Sky Master jets?????????
As long as all this infighting doesn't eliminate any of the makers, I am sure it can only benefit us.
There is no good reason why a plastic aeroplane cannot be made for a lower price, even if it is a jet.
Regards
Jim
There is no good reason why a plastic aeroplane cannot be made for a lower price, even if it is a jet.
Regards
Jim
11-26-2006, 08:19 PM
#63
RE: Sky Master jets?????????
ORIGINAL: FTiano
Truth: First of all, he has either already, or soon will, cut off ALL his U.S.A. and European distributors. Ask Eric and Ali about that. He used them to gain a customer base and then cut the cord so to speak and now deals with prospective customers directly through one of his OWN companies.
Truth: First of all, he has either already, or soon will, cut off ALL his U.S.A. and European distributors. Ask Eric and Ali about that. He used them to gain a customer base and then cut the cord so to speak and now deals with prospective customers directly through one of his OWN companies.
ORIGINAL: FTiano
Truth: He is releasing UNPROVEN models, models that have had no testing what so ever!
Truth: He is releasing UNPROVEN models, models that have had no testing what so ever!
ORIGINAL: FTiano
This company has the MO of Fiber Classics written all over it!
This company has the MO of Fiber Classics written all over it!
I do not own a single SM/Fei Bao/JL model (at least yet). There seems to be a lot of people 'upset' with Anton's business decisions. Also there seems to be a 'huge history' out there, that 'only a few know about'. Its kind of like a soap opera, interesting for a while but of no consequence in the end (unless you are in the hobby business side).
11-26-2006, 11:24 PM
#64
Banned
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
"The only problem I see in Franks truth is I dont remember seeing a "ONLY TEST" proven airframes allowed @ TG."
Actually, you DO have to have your model flight proven BEFORE you can bring it to Top Gun. I think six flights are required.
"Are these un-tested models the ARF plus company or the "xtreme" company? I guess is the "Xtreme" since you can download most test flights for the other one."
Both, I'd say. You can download, for example, a single flight this plane or that, but you don't know which factory it actually came out of, or whether or not the one you are buying was actually done in a completely different factory using very different construction techniques. And you don't know if more than one or two flights were actually put on the airframe. When SM had the dealer network, they would send out demo models to Eric and Todd and other dealers, who would actually put some airtime on the airframes and really prove them well. As far as I know, not one of the models from the new xtreme factory(factories) has actually flown. They have been flown in different versions, built by Feibao and Jetlegend, but it remains to be seen how the new ones differ, what the retracts are like, etc...
I'd be ready for a few more surprises, too. Like maybe the ARF-plus factory starting to sell direct, too. Like Jetlegend did when Anton failed to pay them for the models they made for him. Like Feibao did when he failed to pay them also.
Actually, you DO have to have your model flight proven BEFORE you can bring it to Top Gun. I think six flights are required.
"Are these un-tested models the ARF plus company or the "xtreme" company? I guess is the "Xtreme" since you can download most test flights for the other one."
Both, I'd say. You can download, for example, a single flight this plane or that, but you don't know which factory it actually came out of, or whether or not the one you are buying was actually done in a completely different factory using very different construction techniques. And you don't know if more than one or two flights were actually put on the airframe. When SM had the dealer network, they would send out demo models to Eric and Todd and other dealers, who would actually put some airtime on the airframes and really prove them well. As far as I know, not one of the models from the new xtreme factory(factories) has actually flown. They have been flown in different versions, built by Feibao and Jetlegend, but it remains to be seen how the new ones differ, what the retracts are like, etc...
I'd be ready for a few more surprises, too. Like maybe the ARF-plus factory starting to sell direct, too. Like Jetlegend did when Anton failed to pay them for the models they made for him. Like Feibao did when he failed to pay them also.
11-27-2006, 11:12 AM
#66
Banned
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
Thicker than Zap wing sheeting glue! Which works great, by the way...
It's the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about.
I can't blame any manufacturer or dealer for not wanting to talk about it...from a pure business standpoint, it just does not pay for someone involved in selling or making these to talk too loudly about business disputes. Just be aware that the buying public generally gets not the true gen but the PR schpiel spewed out by whoever is popular at the moment.
In the end, I think the bottom line is the days of dealers here in the USA, at least, are pretty much over. There is room for more of a "rep" system. And there is PLENTY of room for those companies who are actually willing to go to China and CREATE NEW PRODUCTS to make PLENTY of money. Got something new and different? You can pretty much command your price. Like most other products, you have six months or a year to capitolize on something new, then you had better have the NEXT product ready.
It's the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about.
I can't blame any manufacturer or dealer for not wanting to talk about it...from a pure business standpoint, it just does not pay for someone involved in selling or making these to talk too loudly about business disputes. Just be aware that the buying public generally gets not the true gen but the PR schpiel spewed out by whoever is popular at the moment.
In the end, I think the bottom line is the days of dealers here in the USA, at least, are pretty much over. There is room for more of a "rep" system. And there is PLENTY of room for those companies who are actually willing to go to China and CREATE NEW PRODUCTS to make PLENTY of money. Got something new and different? You can pretty much command your price. Like most other products, you have six months or a year to capitolize on something new, then you had better have the NEXT product ready.
11-27-2006, 11:32 AM
#67
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
Just got a private email from some person by the name of Moron. I never heard of him but from the jist of his email, I am guessing he is either a partner or a very, very, very good buddy of Anton's!
He says I better retract all my statements about SM or he will let the cat out of the bag and destroy Ali
and Eric's reputations!
What do you suggest I do? Is there any protocol for threats like this?
Should I be scaret??
Any advice will be helpful. Happy to forward you the email to the monitor privately if necessary.
FT
He says I better retract all my statements about SM or he will let the cat out of the bag and destroy Ali
and Eric's reputations!
What do you suggest I do? Is there any protocol for threats like this?
Should I be scaret??
Any advice will be helpful. Happy to forward you the email to the monitor privately if necessary.
FT
11-27-2006, 11:42 AM
#68
RE: Sky Master jets?????????
ORIGINAL: FTiano
Just got a private email from some person by the name of Moron. I never heard of him but from the jist of his email, I am guessing he is either a partner or a very, very, very good buddy of Anton's!
He says I better retract all my statements about SM or he will let the cat out of the bag and destroy Ali
and Eric's reputations!
What do you suggest I do? Is there any protocol for threats like this?
Should I be scaret??
Any advice will be helpful. Happy to forward you the email to the monitor privately if necessary.
FT
Just got a private email from some person by the name of Moron. I never heard of him but from the jist of his email, I am guessing he is either a partner or a very, very, very good buddy of Anton's!
He says I better retract all my statements about SM or he will let the cat out of the bag and destroy Ali
and Eric's reputations!
What do you suggest I do? Is there any protocol for threats like this?
Should I be scaret??
Any advice will be helpful. Happy to forward you the email to the monitor privately if necessary.
FT
south african dealer and translator for Anton.
11-27-2006, 11:57 AM
#69
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Sky Master jets?????????
ORIGINAL: FTiano
Just got a private email from some person by the name of Moron. I never heard of him but from the jist of his email, I am guessing he is either a partner or a very, very, very good buddy of Anton's!
He says I better retract all my statements about SM or he will let the cat out of the bag and destroy Ali
and Eric's reputations!
What do you suggest I do? Is there any protocol for threats like this?
Should I be scaret??
Any advice will be helpful. Happy to forward you the email to the monitor privately if necessary.
FT
Just got a private email from some person by the name of Moron. I never heard of him but from the jist of his email, I am guessing he is either a partner or a very, very, very good buddy of Anton's!
He says I better retract all my statements about SM or he will let the cat out of the bag and destroy Ali
and Eric's reputations!
What do you suggest I do? Is there any protocol for threats like this?
Should I be scaret??
Any advice will be helpful. Happy to forward you the email to the monitor privately if necessary.
FT
These guys play dirty, no? What a shame.
Just post it, let the email speak for itself.
Eric, well, he's got some stuff he's got to deal with, I wish him well, but I know he had a major part in setting Anton up in the first place, so Anton versus Eric...advantage...ERIC, by a long shot.
Ali and his father's reputations are impeccable, honorable guys to the max, let any South African JetJoe and the last standing Skymaster dealer fire away, let them dig themselves as deep as they want!
Sandor...you crack me up!
11-27-2006, 01:48 PM
#71
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
Hello,
I am just a basic jet modeller, and I want to tell all of you that this thread is becoming very awful.I don't know who is right and who is not, I have a great admiration for Ali for his amazing flying skills and I have respect for Anton.I think,if you are engaged in a commercial fight, please make it via private mails.
Best regards.
I am just a basic jet modeller, and I want to tell all of you that this thread is becoming very awful.I don't know who is right and who is not, I have a great admiration for Ali for his amazing flying skills and I have respect for Anton.I think,if you are engaged in a commercial fight, please make it via private mails.
Best regards.
11-27-2006, 01:59 PM
#73
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
ORIGINAL: etibedossa
Hello,
I am just a basic jet modeller, and I want to tell all of you that this thread is becoming very awful.I don't know who is right and who is not, I have a great admiration for Ali for his amazing flying skills and I have respect for Anton.I think,if you are engaged in a commercial fight, please make it via private mails.
Best regards.
Hello,
I am just a basic jet modeller, and I want to tell all of you that this thread is becoming very awful.I don't know who is right and who is not, I have a great admiration for Ali for his amazing flying skills and I have respect for Anton.I think,if you are engaged in a commercial fight, please make it via private mails.
Best regards.
These commercial entities have no problem coming here on the internet and using it to sell whenever they want, it's a double-edged sword. Nobody would even KNOW about xtremejets were it not for RCU, and obviously, people are very much interested in the whole issue, people want to buy stuff, know what the stuff is like, whatever. I guess if you don't like the thread, you can tune out as you please.
Someone pointed something out, though...nobody seems to care until it affects THEM, and if YOU wired off money to some company and then nothing showed up, or the item was garbage, YOU would be singing a very different tune. Especially if afterwards, people said "oh, EVERYBODY knew that company was in trouble", or "that landing gear is junk", or whatever.
11-27-2006, 02:02 PM
#75
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RE: Sky Master jets?????????
ORIGINAL: digitech
what!?
i met both of them on the jetpower stand and morne did all the talking.
i did not mean to be disrespectfull here...
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Sandor...you crack me up!
Sandor...you crack me up!
what!?
i met both of them on the jetpower stand and morne did all the talking.
i did not mean to be disrespectfull here...