K & B .61
04-10-2004, 01:08 PM
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K & B .61
I just picked up a K & B .61 with the Perry Pump And Perry Carburator from an estate sale. The price of $20 for an unused motor was too good to pass up. The motor came from K & B with the Perry items.
Can anyone give me any info on it good or bad?
Thanks.
Can anyone give me any info on it good or bad?
Thanks.
04-10-2004, 01:28 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Lee:
New in box for $20? I'll let you double your money if you wish - I'll give you $40 for it.
What you have is probably the K&B model 6560, but it might be the 6530. Tell the difference by the prop drive - if it keys into a flat on the crankshaft it's the 6530, if it uses a tapered collet to lock the drive washer it's the later 6560 version. Both good engines.
The standard K&B 61, without the pump, is an excellent replacement for a modern 40-46, the 61 weighs the same and will swing a lot more prop.
The 6560 pumped version is a match for all the 50-52 engines and some modern 60-65s, if you send it to Clarence Lee and get the PDP conversion I don't know of any 60-65 engines it will not match, it will exceed most.
The price you pay for this is very small. It's a loop scavenged engine, so the theoretic peak power is less than a Schneurle ported engine, but the PDP modification nullifies this. Although the PDP conversion does have a sharp exhaust rap that some object to. Additionally, instead of two fuel adjustments you now have four, and many people have trouble getting them right. (Hope you got the paperwork.)
It is an excellent all-round engine, you should be happy with it, and you can expect it to be still running for your grandson if you don't mistreat it.
Bill.
New in box for $20? I'll let you double your money if you wish - I'll give you $40 for it.
What you have is probably the K&B model 6560, but it might be the 6530. Tell the difference by the prop drive - if it keys into a flat on the crankshaft it's the 6530, if it uses a tapered collet to lock the drive washer it's the later 6560 version. Both good engines.
The standard K&B 61, without the pump, is an excellent replacement for a modern 40-46, the 61 weighs the same and will swing a lot more prop.
The 6560 pumped version is a match for all the 50-52 engines and some modern 60-65s, if you send it to Clarence Lee and get the PDP conversion I don't know of any 60-65 engines it will not match, it will exceed most.
The price you pay for this is very small. It's a loop scavenged engine, so the theoretic peak power is less than a Schneurle ported engine, but the PDP modification nullifies this. Although the PDP conversion does have a sharp exhaust rap that some object to. Additionally, instead of two fuel adjustments you now have four, and many people have trouble getting them right. (Hope you got the paperwork.)
It is an excellent all-round engine, you should be happy with it, and you can expect it to be still running for your grandson if you don't mistreat it.
Bill.
04-10-2004, 01:31 PM
#3
RE: K & B .61
A new one is very nice but a old one, even unused can be trouble. The special Perry carb can have the O-rings get hard and the idle disk will spin with the throttle barrel. The Perry pump may have a rotted diaphgram and leak fuel or not pump. Then again, everything may be perfect? You can get the engine parts from K&B (MECOA) and new carb or pump from Perry. But the pump made into the back plate is no longer available.
Start engine, adjust HS needle then low speed disk. Then check the mid range. If it's rich, reduce pump pressure etc.
Engine is terribly loud.
Enjoy,
Jim
Start engine, adjust HS needle then low speed disk. Then check the mid range. If it's rich, reduce pump pressure etc.
Engine is terribly loud.
Enjoy,
Jim
04-10-2004, 02:00 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Jim:
You forgot the inverted flow regulator on the carb. Granted, it usually doesn't need any attention, but it's there and it's the fourth fuel adjustment.
Don't remember any bad diaphragms on new unrun Perry pumpss, but it could happen.The o-rings on the fuel disc are no problem at all.
Lee:
I'll still give you the $40.
Bill.
You forgot the inverted flow regulator on the carb. Granted, it usually doesn't need any attention, but it's there and it's the fourth fuel adjustment.
Don't remember any bad diaphragms on new unrun Perry pumpss, but it could happen.The o-rings on the fuel disc are no problem at all.
Lee:
I'll still give you the $40.
Bill.
04-10-2004, 04:08 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Thanks for the replies. It does have the flat for the prop washer. The box says part no. 6535. I took off the back plate and cylinder head and it is in pristine condition. It appears to have never seen fuel. It does have all the paperwork.
Thanks for the offer Bill but I will be putting it in a Kangke SK-50 with Floats for Lake Flying. It fits the predrilled mount spacing perfectly.
The idle disc does not move with the throttle. I guess the only way I’ll know for sure is to run it.
Thanks,
Lee
Thanks for the offer Bill but I will be putting it in a Kangke SK-50 with Floats for Lake Flying. It fits the predrilled mount spacing perfectly.
The idle disc does not move with the throttle. I guess the only way I’ll know for sure is to run it.
Thanks,
Lee
04-11-2004, 01:16 PM
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RE: K & B .61
I ran the engine this morning. Started up immediately. The only leakage I saw was between the high speed needle and the idle adjustment wheel on the Perry carb. The pump seemed to be working flawlessly. The motor was mounted in the plane and the fuel tank was on the ground. Not Bad. Even primed the engine easily.
It will still need some minor adjustments once I get it ready to fly but as of now I am extremely happy with it.
Lee
It will still need some minor adjustments once I get it ready to fly but as of now I am extremely happy with it.
Lee
04-11-2004, 02:03 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Lee:
OK, I give up. I'll give you $50 for it. Haw.
Seriously, a fuel leak from the threads of the needle valve proves the pump is working. If it were not, air would be sucked in. Leaking fuel shows the pressure is there. You can cure, or at least slow, the leakage by replacing the spring with a short piece of fuel tubing. Might have to play with the length to get it right, it has to act as a locking device for the adjustment as well as sealing it.
First picture shows the 6535 engine (yours) on the left, and the later 6560 version on the right. Not only can you see the difference in the prop drive washers, you will also notice the different appearance of the needle valve.
The thread leakage was a known problem, the later pump carb had a modified needle valve assembly, with an internal o-ring sealing on the extended sleeve of the mixture disc. The second picture gives a little better view. The engines shown in the second picture are 83xx (0.40cid) engines, but the 61s were done the same way. The left engine in the second picture is the 8360, the "Q40" engine with the built-in Perry pump, the other is the 8350, smaller carb and no pump.
On the left engine in the second picture you can also see the flow regulator adjustment, it's the screw between the air intake and the mixture disc. Your carb should have it as well.
To keep anyone from getting a wrong idea here, the needle valve modification was applied to all the carbs, not just the pumpers.
Lee, be sure to tighten the prop nut fully. There were instances of the crank hammering inside the earlier washer, rounding out the flat. The split cone doesn't have the problem. And the split cone and matching washer can be installed on your engine with no modification, parts readily available from MECoA/K&B. Not expensive, you might want to get a set just to have it ready. It's collet part number 19-6101 @ $4.50, and the washer #20-6101 @ $6.00. You might want to save a little money on postage by getting some other spares at tbe same time. I'd suggest a couple piston rings, 14-6101 @ $7.20, and a couple spare teflon pads for the wrist pin, 26-6101 @2.75. The ring is just about the only part that wears, the pads are easy to lose. The prices are from an invoice dated 7/30/2003.
Weighty Jim:
If Conley has eliminated the flow regulator on the later pump carbs, how are they justifying the higher price for one labeled "Pump?"
Bill.
OK, I give up. I'll give you $50 for it. Haw.
Seriously, a fuel leak from the threads of the needle valve proves the pump is working. If it were not, air would be sucked in. Leaking fuel shows the pressure is there. You can cure, or at least slow, the leakage by replacing the spring with a short piece of fuel tubing. Might have to play with the length to get it right, it has to act as a locking device for the adjustment as well as sealing it.
First picture shows the 6535 engine (yours) on the left, and the later 6560 version on the right. Not only can you see the difference in the prop drive washers, you will also notice the different appearance of the needle valve.
The thread leakage was a known problem, the later pump carb had a modified needle valve assembly, with an internal o-ring sealing on the extended sleeve of the mixture disc. The second picture gives a little better view. The engines shown in the second picture are 83xx (0.40cid) engines, but the 61s were done the same way. The left engine in the second picture is the 8360, the "Q40" engine with the built-in Perry pump, the other is the 8350, smaller carb and no pump.
On the left engine in the second picture you can also see the flow regulator adjustment, it's the screw between the air intake and the mixture disc. Your carb should have it as well.
To keep anyone from getting a wrong idea here, the needle valve modification was applied to all the carbs, not just the pumpers.
Lee, be sure to tighten the prop nut fully. There were instances of the crank hammering inside the earlier washer, rounding out the flat. The split cone doesn't have the problem. And the split cone and matching washer can be installed on your engine with no modification, parts readily available from MECoA/K&B. Not expensive, you might want to get a set just to have it ready. It's collet part number 19-6101 @ $4.50, and the washer #20-6101 @ $6.00. You might want to save a little money on postage by getting some other spares at tbe same time. I'd suggest a couple piston rings, 14-6101 @ $7.20, and a couple spare teflon pads for the wrist pin, 26-6101 @2.75. The ring is just about the only part that wears, the pads are easy to lose. The prices are from an invoice dated 7/30/2003.
Weighty Jim:
If Conley has eliminated the flow regulator on the later pump carbs, how are they justifying the higher price for one labeled "Pump?"
Bill.
04-11-2004, 03:36 PM
#10
RE: K & B .61
I bought a replacement pumper carb and it doesn't have the little screw there like the old carb does. My old carb did just fine with the screw all the way in. The new carb runs fine too. I only have one pumper K&B 61 and it's the 6535. All my others are 6550's with no pump. The are PDP's.
Jim
Jim
04-11-2004, 04:04 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Gentlemen:
Sorry, I made an error.
The extension the needle valve seals to is part of the throttle barrel. I knew better when I wrote it, just screwed up.
Bill.
Sorry, I made an error.
an internal o-ring sealing on the extended sleeve of the mixture disc
Bill.
04-11-2004, 06:14 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Gentleman,
Thanks for all the great info. I have an Enya 45cx and had to place a piece of fuel tubing over the needle valve also per their instructions for air leakage. I will do the same with this. There is no spring on the needle valve.
The flow regulator adjustment is tightened all the way in per the instructions.
Lee
Thanks for all the great info. I have an Enya 45cx and had to place a piece of fuel tubing over the needle valve also per their instructions for air leakage. I will do the same with this. There is no spring on the needle valve.
The flow regulator adjustment is tightened all the way in per the instructions.
Lee
04-11-2004, 06:36 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Lee:
If your carb has the needle threads exposed when it's installed, like the 8350 on the right in the second picture, then the lack of a spring means it is missing. If you have the bare cylindric extension like the 8360 on the left, just replace the internal o-ring. Take the needle out and look inside the knob, you'll see it.
Bill.
PS: You could just use the fuel tubing, of course. wr.
If your carb has the needle threads exposed when it's installed, like the 8350 on the right in the second picture, then the lack of a spring means it is missing. If you have the bare cylindric extension like the 8360 on the left, just replace the internal o-ring. Take the needle out and look inside the knob, you'll see it.
Bill.
PS: You could just use the fuel tubing, of course. wr.
01-05-2007, 12:21 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Good morning Bill.... I have a friend that has a K&B 61 with the Perry Pump and Carburator... Model 6560 (I believe) The needle valve on the Perry carb takes very little movement to adjust to a proper setting..... We go to full in and then out less than 1/4 turn.. about 3 clicks... It runs good there but I am concerned that the pump is providing too much pressure... What do you think and how should we adjust the pump also... Richard
01-05-2007, 01:58 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Hope you don't mind me butting in here...but 
If you back the pump regulator screw out some, the needle valve will become less sensitive, because you are reducing the pressure.
I have a several backplate pumps in K&B .40's and .61's and on a few of them, the screw is backed almost all the way out. I just use the pump to bring fuel to the carb, not force feed it.
If you back the pump regulator screw out some, the needle valve will become less sensitive, because you are reducing the pressure.
I have a several backplate pumps in K&B .40's and .61's and on a few of them, the screw is backed almost all the way out. I just use the pump to bring fuel to the carb, not force feed it.
01-05-2007, 05:06 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Bill
If you are interested in an older K&B 61, I have one that I'll sell for $30 plus shipping.... I don't have any history on the engine, I bought a Sig Liberty Sport with the 61 in it and replaced it with a 4 stroke... I did start it once when I bought the plane and that was two years ago, it started right up and ran fine without any problems. I don't remember the prop or the rpm's but I can mount it on a test stand and let you know.
if you're interested let me know
If you are interested in an older K&B 61, I have one that I'll sell for $30 plus shipping.... I don't have any history on the engine, I bought a Sig Liberty Sport with the 61 in it and replaced it with a 4 stroke... I did start it once when I bought the plane and that was two years ago, it started right up and ran fine without any problems. I don't remember the prop or the rpm's but I can mount it on a test stand and let you know.
if you're interested let me know
01-12-2007, 05:15 PM
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RE: K & B .61
Can anyone help with contacting William Robison... I have sent him an email and a PM plus the following question here on RCU in the past week... I have not heard from him and was wondering if he responds to emails and PM? I hope he is well and may have a different address....
ORIGINAL: Thanks: Richard39
Good morning Bill.... I have a friend that has a K&B 61 with the Perry Pump and Carburator... Model 6560 (I believe) The needle valve on the Perry carb takes very little movement to adjust to a proper setting..... We go to full in and then out less than 1/4 turn.. about 3 clicks... It runs good there but I am concerned that the pump is providing too much pressure... What do you think and how should we adjust the pump also... Richard
Good morning Bill.... I have a friend that has a K&B 61 with the Perry Pump and Carburator... Model 6560 (I believe) The needle valve on the Perry carb takes very little movement to adjust to a proper setting..... We go to full in and then out less than 1/4 turn.. about 3 clicks... It runs good there but I am concerned that the pump is providing too much pressure... What do you think and how should we adjust the pump also... Richard