samo

Chris,

The P-70 DOES make a drammatic difference. Take offs are quicker, vertical is awesome, speed is there, but most impressive is that the extra weight makes it settle on landing. My P-60 version wouldn't "sit". It wanted to float forever.
BTW, I too have the Jet Tec tank "clunk" facing aft. Works great!
(picture's not great - sorry)

Steve

causeitflies

I'm about to put a bigger engine in my 54 for that "new bird" thing.
I hear a lot of guys saying that they can't get the P-60 version to "sit" or settle in. Are you guys using full flap? The plane will slow waaayy down on landing and settle on the mains or stall on all three just as happily. But you have to slow it down. At my field I keep it fairly high on final because of some trees off the end of the runway (not real close but I make sure I'm well over them) and then just drop it on the runway and flare. Even with the nose pointed down it doesn't pick up much speed with 60 deg. flap.

maxvertical

Wow am I tired. It's 4am and I just finished Joining the wings. This thing sure goes together nice. Makes me look like a pro builder! LOL..

Thanks guys. All this great info, where else but RCU. Will plan on putting that Jet Tec tank in the conventional way. Must say thanks to Bruce too, he fired an email back in short order on a couple of questions I had on placement of the fuel system. I don't know of any other kit manufacturer that supports guys as well as BTE does, then gives them the green light to go experiment! Love it! Really getting excited to see this bird finished.
Say Dave, aren't you going to Phoenix this month? Are you taking the small version?

Samo, thanks for the picture. You guys might not think so, but every one of them helps. I looked way back in this thread to see some of Tommy's build, and Daves as well. All of them help put all the little pieces together. A big thanks. I must ask too, what kind of flight times are you doing with that P-70 Jet Tec combo? I was thinking of starting at 5 or 5.5 minutes and working out from there.
Chris

rcguy!

My Feedback: (69)

The R44 will be at Desert Jet Storm in Phoenix. My flight out leaves on Wednesday.
Dave

samo

Chris,

76oz on board gives me a safe 8min. You'll probably want to lengthen your flight time a little more to burn off the excess weight of the fuel??

Steve

maxvertical

I had hopes of getting out to eight minutes, so that will work out nice.

Desert Jet Storm must be the Speedworld event that they have. Shoot. I have to go down there on the 9th to go to work, but there's a slim chance I could still make it. If I get the chance, I'll look you up, but my guess is that I'll have to take a trip out of town. Maybe I can send my bud Larry to take some pictures of the R44! Have fun!
Are you flying US Airways by chance?
Chris

rcguy!

My Feedback: (69)

Chris,
Continental..burning up unused air miles.

Dave

maxvertical

Tommy, you said you glassed the tail feathers before final assembly. I think I see why you did that, looks to be a real job otherwise. Given another shot at it, would you still glass these before putting them on the fues? I am guessing the same applies for the other control surfaces as well, much easier to do the glassing before final assembly.

Still sanding a forest here, but this thing is really starting to look like an airplane, and a real fine one at that! I guess I'd best get used to the sanding cause I'm no where near done, I'm sure!

Chris

Redline7000

My Feedback: (2)

I'll be glassing my R54 as well. I've got all the tail surfaces glassed, but I'm at odds as to how to go about glassing the fuselage. Should I start with the bottom, then the sides and finally the top? Suggestions please.
I'll be using SIG Koverall for the wings. I hate plastic film coverings!

maxvertical

I think you and I are in the same boat here! Done a ton of plastic films but never have done a glass ship. Have a bud on this end that does allot of scale stuff says to always split the job in halfs. Guess that makes sense! Anyway, he suggests doing the bottoms first, and on the fues it would be a bottom then a top rather than a left and right. Not sure what the advantage would be doing the bottoms first. Probably a hundred ways to do this too! I plan on using one section for the bottom, and one for the top using Tommy Watson's suggested .6oz cloth. I looked at some 3/4oz yesterday and the stuff seems so soft and light it would probably flow around corners with no issues at all. I ordered the .6oz through CST and am using West Systems resin.

Chris

jon_focal_plane

Here's an image of our R54. The underside is solid red. All together, is very easy to distinguish orientation.

Jonathan

TommyWatson

My Feedback: (1)

Redline7000 and Chris,

I glassed the tail pieces first because it would be almost impossible to sand them in situ. For the fuse, i just cut a piece of cloth big enough to cover the side of the fuse from nose to tail, and enough to reach past the centre of the top and bottom. Then I just brush the thinned resin on and let it all hang down till cured. Sand off the overhang (no need to sand it perfectly). then do the other side the same. Sand off the overlap and then give the whole thing another coat of resin. When fully cured, sand with 80 grit till all the shine is gone. You should just be able to see the cloth but don't cut into the cloth.
I still havn't found Dan Parsons method but I will look again tonight. it has worked well for me with many models including a two BVM Ducted fan Sabres, which had to be light.

Regards

Countryboy

My Feedback: (25)

Tommy,

Here is a link to the Dan Parsons glassing technique.

http://www.geocities.com/condorsrc/t.../fibrglas.html

TommyWatson

My Feedback: (1)

Hi CountryBoy,

You just saved me having to get up in the roof anf find the article. Yes thats how I do it except I always do the fuse in two parts. The most important part is to use the soft cloth. ordinary .75 oz cloth will not "Flow" like the softer stuff. Sure it looks flimsy but it adds a lot of strength when cured.
I am just getting ready to do my TurboProp Extra. I will need a lot of clothe and resin for that one. I intend to glass the fuse, fin and rudder and glass the wings and stab.

Regards

maxvertical

Hey that will be fun! Are you using the JetCat turbine or the Wren?
And thanks for the link to the Parsons method. Will certainly help out.. Allot! Wanted to go meet Dave R at Speedworld this weekend but have to blast off on a trip, might still be able to catch part of it on Sunday. I bet he is having fun!

Chris

TommyWatson

My Feedback: (1)

G'Day Chris,

Sure is a lot of fun. I can't wait to fly it.

maxvertical

Sure looks nice Tommy. Will be an attention getter for sure!
Put the airframe together for the first time today with wings, tail and all. Sure looks nice! Should be ready to start the BIG sand this next week after I get back home, and hope to be glassing by then too! Maybe it will look good enough to post a picture by then. Bruce was right! You get this far and you can't help but to start making jet sounds around the house. Wife thinks I've flipped! Dunno, maybe I have!
Chris

maxvertical

Well guys, did my first stab at glassing tonight and must say I'm impressed. Was way easier to do than I thought and the results so far are impressive.

Thanks Tommy for the great advise, that .6oz cloth really works out nice, that along with the provided link to the Parsons method by Countryboy was a huge help. Will let you know how the rest of it goes!

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Hi Guys,

Joined the R54 "movement" a few weeks ago with the arrival of the Big Brown Airplane Truck with a BTE box a few weeks ago :-)

This thread, with all the advice, information, and enthusiasm, was the main reason I deciced to take this direction with a first jet. So far, I have been mostly into warbirds, so this was a significant decision to make. So at least I am familar with fast, heavy things, where a "flameout" is usually fatal. Should be an easy leap to a fast, light thing...

As you all know very well, the kit is simply superb (Bruce, you rock!), and I have it 50-60% framed out already. I'll be doing an all-sheeted wing, with glass cloth/resin covering, and a Wren 54 SuperSport for power .. so a lot like Tom Watson's setup... hope mine is as successful as his!

Been enjoying the wood-kit build process .. the only wood kits I've built recently are small electrics .. and it's "good to be back" .. fortunately I like the balsa dust and CA fumes ...

A question for the R54 community:

Has anyone considered morphing the top rear hatch into a speedbrake? I went back and re-read Todd's FAQ section on the Dreamworks site about adding a speedbrake on the C-Arf Eurofighter. He did it partly because it looked so cool, and partly for access to frequently needed functions (air, switches, turbine I/O board) while the plane is on the ground. Oh, and yes, I suppose it also slows the plane down :-)

Given similar needs (at least for the fuel shutoff access, maybe more depending on the gear setup) in the R54, this seemed like an interesting thing to consider. A couple of the offset gear door hinges in the front of the opening, and a long-stroke air cylinder and it's done .. would want to be a little longer than the door on the plan, I am thinking maybe (fuse width - 1/2" ) x 6 or 7".

I am in the middle of framing up the fuse and will play around with this .. I'll post some pics if it looks workable .. but I was wondering .. has anyone else gone down this path? I did not see it thus far in the thread .. but I'll bet this is not the first time this idea has cropped up.

Dave McQueeney

Mach1

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Dave,

Welcome to the club reaction.

I just added the speedbrake to my reaction but did it on the bottom of the wing. Hope to try it out next weekend...

W. Hunter

causeitflies

Are you guys using the larger engines having problems slowing the R54 down?
I may put a bigger one on mine.

speedbrake

Hey,
Any PST600R owners out there using a P60 FOD screen? I'm looking for a FOD screen and was told by Dreamworks that they were told the P60 screen would work. Would like to hear it from somebody that is actually using one. Any modifications required?

WW2Birds,
A speedbrake in the rear hatch area sounds great. There isn't much back there, especially if you locate the UAT under the front hatch. The R54 is capable of flying really, really slow. With 60 degrees of flaps, landings are very easy. Some guys are using 40 degrees with great success. Just be prepared to slow it down a lot...more than you are probably used to. Good Luck!

Cheers,
Keith

maxvertical

Interesting idea to put the speedbrake at the rear hatch area. Bottom of the wing or fues sounds like the ideal place. I'd worry about turbulence across the tail just when you need that tail the most, during landing flare, but maybe it would work out just fine. Cool idea. I actually located my rudder and elevator servo's back to under the hatch area so that I can move all the UAT/Fuel pump stuff just in front of F-5. So far is looking awesome, with the weight being close to a wash for CG. Just another idea.
Yes, Bruce "is the Man". I also have totally enjoyed the build on this so far. Parts fit and quality has been outstanding and the best I've worked with. When you get to it, I used the same .6oz cloth that Tommy Watson used from CST and so far has been awesome. Really goes around corners well and is easy to work with.
Chris

tahfiet

Hi Keith!

I have just received a P-60 FOD-guard from Todd and my Dad's PST J-600R "lying around" waiting for the Reaction to be build and finished. I will check later this afternoon, if TAM's FOD guard will fit on the PST.

Buy the way: Great idea of installing a Speedbrake. Speedbrakes are always fun to fly with, as long as there is no pitching up or down. You can do a power-approach and landing gets easier and more fun. If you use a mix with your s/b that they go up with 75% throttle, go-arounds are dead-easy

BR,

David

BruceTharpe

My Feedback: (1)

Interesting ideas on the speed brakes. As far as I know it's not been tried with the top hatch. I have the same concern as Chris. Top-side speedbrakes seem to be more common on twin fin designs where the turbulence won't cause any trouble. Then again, it just might work fine. Bottom line is I am all for experimentation, as long as you know you're kind of breaking new ground. Let us all know how it works out! Warren's bottom speedbrake looks awesome, like all his work! I'm guessing he left about a half inch of ground clearance!