Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
02-06-2007, 04:44 PM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
Yes... confusing.... engine sizes have blurred a bit... 
Displacement is generally considered a reference of power output, but does actually not describe how the engine performs or its physical size.
Once upon the time.... there were 3 main engine sizes (primary crankcase sizes most RC guys delt with)
.19/.20 little block (Veco 19, Enya 19, K&B .21, OS .20/25, Current versions are .32-.37 engines)
.40/.45 small block (OS 40FSR, K&B.40, ST .40, current OS 46,.50,.55 FX/AX)
.60/.61 big block (your smaller K&B .61, ST G-60 bluehead - then the OS 61FSR, Rossi 61, OPS, etc.... and current OS61/91FX)
The Jett Q-500 and QM40 engines, as well as the Sport Jett .40, .46, .50, and .60L engines are all built in the same crankcase - which is a small block "40" size. So by todays measures, these size sport jett engines are typically used where your usual .46-.50 size engine would be used.
The Jett SJ-76, 90L, 100L and 120L are all built in a traditional .61 size engine crankcase (same footprint as the OS61/91)
The SJ.76 and .90L and .100LX are designed as higher rpm engines - the 100L and 120L are designed for lower rpm, big props. But they are physically the same size and appx weight.
Sorta comes down to a prop selection and weight and balance issue more than anything else when dealing with some of the vintage pattern ships. As I noted, some of the older/smaller/lighter pattern birds would do great in those respects powered by the SJ-60L. But in general, the typical 1980s designs that used Rossi/OS FSR/Webra/YS .61 power would utilize the Jett .90L engines.
Displacement is generally considered a reference of power output, but does actually not describe how the engine performs or its physical size.
Once upon the time.... there were 3 main engine sizes (primary crankcase sizes most RC guys delt with)
.19/.20 little block (Veco 19, Enya 19, K&B .21, OS .20/25, Current versions are .32-.37 engines)
.40/.45 small block (OS 40FSR, K&B.40, ST .40, current OS 46,.50,.55 FX/AX)
.60/.61 big block (your smaller K&B .61, ST G-60 bluehead - then the OS 61FSR, Rossi 61, OPS, etc.... and current OS61/91FX)
The Jett Q-500 and QM40 engines, as well as the Sport Jett .40, .46, .50, and .60L engines are all built in the same crankcase - which is a small block "40" size. So by todays measures, these size sport jett engines are typically used where your usual .46-.50 size engine would be used.
The Jett SJ-76, 90L, 100L and 120L are all built in a traditional .61 size engine crankcase (same footprint as the OS61/91)
The SJ.76 and .90L and .100LX are designed as higher rpm engines - the 100L and 120L are designed for lower rpm, big props. But they are physically the same size and appx weight.
Sorta comes down to a prop selection and weight and balance issue more than anything else when dealing with some of the vintage pattern ships. As I noted, some of the older/smaller/lighter pattern birds would do great in those respects powered by the SJ-60L. But in general, the typical 1980s designs that used Rossi/OS FSR/Webra/YS .61 power would utilize the Jett .90L engines.
02-06-2007, 10:07 PM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
Hey Tony, been out of commission for a few days, so I did not see your post and questions. The Baracuda airfoil is a 10 percent laminar flow foil with the high point at 40% back. Pretty quick, but glides like a rock. The spinner is a Tru Turn 2 7/8 Ultimate style. The Baracuda is really a 40 size ship with a Jett 90 stuffed in the nose. Flies great as long air speed is over 120. GPS'd it at 160, but I'm guessing 150 is a more reasonable number. Obviously not a true classic pattern ship, but it was inspired by some of those great airframes.
02-07-2007, 01:32 AM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
Tnx... bobber,
I had guessed from the side view that it was a 10 to 11% airfoil. I can picture it "Slipping threw the Dew" at some very incredible speeds!
Amazing that you used a Laminar Flow airfoil. I'm in process of cutting some "laminar flow" wings. I am going to experiment with a wing configuration like you have. Apparently a "swept Leading edge" with the straight trailing edge, AKA: Escape, XLT, Intruder, because I have personally always liked that wing form, but for my experimentation, I'm going to use the same airfoil and cut a set with double taper, on the leading edge and trailing edge, But I'm planning on using 12 or 13% airfoil.
Is your Fuse "FG" or Wood? Would you mind sharing just a few "Spec's" curious about your weight?
Thank you for the info..
I could picture your plane,(with a thicker airfoil) if it is a "40" sized plane and one of Dubs 60's having a REALLY "Cool" aircraft! more in tune with an "Older guy" who might not have those 200mph reflexes... [sm=lol.gif]
Tony
BPA #2
Boling,TX
I had guessed from the side view that it was a 10 to 11% airfoil. I can picture it "Slipping threw the Dew" at some very incredible speeds!
Amazing that you used a Laminar Flow airfoil. I'm in process of cutting some "laminar flow" wings. I am going to experiment with a wing configuration like you have. Apparently a "swept Leading edge" with the straight trailing edge, AKA: Escape, XLT, Intruder, because I have personally always liked that wing form, but for my experimentation, I'm going to use the same airfoil and cut a set with double taper, on the leading edge and trailing edge, But I'm planning on using 12 or 13% airfoil.
Is your Fuse "FG" or Wood? Would you mind sharing just a few "Spec's" curious about your weight?
Thank you for the info..
I could picture your plane,(with a thicker airfoil) if it is a "40" sized plane and one of Dubs 60's having a REALLY "Cool" aircraft! more in tune with an "Older guy" who might not have those 200mph reflexes... [sm=lol.gif]
Tony
BPA #2
Boling,TX
02-07-2007, 09:20 AM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
Hey Tony,
Wingspan was 53", wing area 595 sq in, OAL 60", weight a couple of ounces over 8 pounds (oink). The fuselage was a molded balsa shell with glass and c/f. I used the naca 64A010 foil. It works well at speed, but at lower speeds and higher wing loadings it sinks big time, so landing speed has to be pretty fast. Fortunately, it shows no sign of tip stall. If I was doing another one, I'd bump up the wing area a little, use a slightly thicker foil, and try to cut weight. There are so many other sources of drag that I don't think a little more wing would hurt the top end. I did a build thread on the speed forum if you are interested: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_22..._bobber/tm.htm
Dubb is a great guy and he makes super engines. You'll really enjoy owning them. I initially had a bit of trouble keeping pipe couplers on mine, but Bob27s recommended the pink Prather couplers, and they work great.
Bob R
Wingspan was 53", wing area 595 sq in, OAL 60", weight a couple of ounces over 8 pounds (oink). The fuselage was a molded balsa shell with glass and c/f. I used the naca 64A010 foil. It works well at speed, but at lower speeds and higher wing loadings it sinks big time, so landing speed has to be pretty fast. Fortunately, it shows no sign of tip stall. If I was doing another one, I'd bump up the wing area a little, use a slightly thicker foil, and try to cut weight. There are so many other sources of drag that I don't think a little more wing would hurt the top end. I did a build thread on the speed forum if you are interested: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_22..._bobber/tm.htm
Dubb is a great guy and he makes super engines. You'll really enjoy owning them. I initially had a bit of trouble keeping pipe couplers on mine, but Bob27s recommended the pink Prather couplers, and they work great.
Bob R
02-07-2007, 09:34 AM
#30
RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
As for as running in the early or even late pattern planes, all I would care is what they would turn a 11-7 or 12-6 prop, not their weight. If too light I can add some nose weight. I dissagree with using a .90 for anything but sport. If you intend to compete with planes that are just like the ones before they allowed larger engines then you should stick to the 10 cc limit. Other wise you have a differant game. I see several Jett engines that would work on the later fast prop jet pattern planes. Not sure if any have enough torque for the earlier ones but I suspect they do, at least for the faster SPA type planes.
02-07-2007, 10:12 AM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
As for as running in the early or even late pattern planes, all I would care is what they would turn a 11-7 or 12-6 prop, not their weight. If too light I can add some nose weight. I dissagree with using a .90 for anything but sport. If you intend to compete with planes that are just like the ones before they allowed larger engines then you should stick to the 10 cc limit. Other wise you have a differant game. I see several Jett engines that would work on the later fast prop jet pattern planes. Not sure if any have enough torque for the earlier ones but I suspect they do, at least for the faster SPA type planes.
As for as running in the early or even late pattern planes, all I would care is what they would turn a 11-7 or 12-6 prop, not their weight. If too light I can add some nose weight. I dissagree with using a .90 for anything but sport. If you intend to compete with planes that are just like the ones before they allowed larger engines then you should stick to the 10 cc limit. Other wise you have a differant game. I see several Jett engines that would work on the later fast prop jet pattern planes. Not sure if any have enough torque for the earlier ones but I suspect they do, at least for the faster SPA type planes.
Just noting with the posts above, that Jett does not offer a .60 size engine that is truely suitable for the 1980s type pattern airframes. Ultimately the choice comes down to the aircraft builder what powerplant to utilize.
02-07-2007, 10:27 AM
#32
RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
ORIGINAL: bob27s
I agree in principle with keeping the BPA rules within the old 1980s rulebook. In which case the 10cc 2-c limit is what was specified. So if that is the spirit, then the rules should reflect that.
Just noting with the posts above, that Jett does not offer a .60 size engine that is truely suitable for the 1980s type pattern airframes. Ultimately the choice comes down to the aircraft builder what powerplant to utilize.
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
As for as running in the early or even late pattern planes, all I would care is what they would turn a 11-7 or 12-6 prop, not their weight. If too light I can add some nose weight. I dissagree with using a .90 for anything but sport. If you intend to compete with planes that are just like the ones before they allowed larger engines then you should stick to the 10 cc limit. Other wise you have a differant game. I see several Jett engines that would work on the later fast prop jet pattern planes. Not sure if any have enough torque for the earlier ones but I suspect they do, at least for the faster SPA type planes.
As for as running in the early or even late pattern planes, all I would care is what they would turn a 11-7 or 12-6 prop, not their weight. If too light I can add some nose weight. I dissagree with using a .90 for anything but sport. If you intend to compete with planes that are just like the ones before they allowed larger engines then you should stick to the 10 cc limit. Other wise you have a differant game. I see several Jett engines that would work on the later fast prop jet pattern planes. Not sure if any have enough torque for the earlier ones but I suspect they do, at least for the faster SPA type planes.
Just noting with the posts above, that Jett does not offer a .60 size engine that is truely suitable for the 1980s type pattern airframes. Ultimately the choice comes down to the aircraft builder what powerplant to utilize.
Could some of them be reported? Perhaps one of the C/L stunt versions be used in place of those high torque 10 cc two strokes such as the Hanno and long stroke SF?
02-07-2007, 12:18 PM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
I think the point here is, the 60L pretty much expended all capability of expansion, porting changes, material thickness reductions cramming the displacement into the small crankcase. Yes, the SJ-60L "torque" version with a full pipe can turn an 11x7, 12x6 or similar size - the long pipe defines the rpm range and moves the torque curve, which makes lots of things possible. It is a matter of trading rpm for torque. So clearly the performance is available from the small block 60L if you wish to go that route. Anything is worth a try.
The evolution beyond the physical limits of the 60L became the BSE-76L engine - still "40" size, but the crankcase is different - different carb - designed for low rpm and torque (with or without a tuned exhaust), and as a result of the tiny crankcase package there are structural limitations. Turns a 14x4 or 14x6 around 11,000 rpm - key being to prop the engine below 13,000 ground rpm (or it may tear itself up). Makes a very good 3d engine. It is an outstanding engine selection for scale projects where size and weight are factors. Probably would make a decent pattern engine too with a 11x10 or 12x9 and a full pipe - hauls my 40-60 size Edge with great authority... but the displacement is over 10cc. (this size engine was originally designed for the new CL engine displacement rules).
Images here are the type of intended application - Venus .40 , SJ-60L "hover" engine - with the lite-muffler (non-tuned). 12.25x3.75 prop. Setup turns about 14,500 rpm. Take this same type 60L engine, RE configuration, add a full pipe, set length a bit long for around 12,500-13,000 rpm peak - and it would probably run well with a 12x6.
As for me, my next EU1-A will have a FIRE-90L up front turning the 12x6 around 14,800 rpm
The evolution beyond the physical limits of the 60L became the BSE-76L engine - still "40" size, but the crankcase is different - different carb - designed for low rpm and torque (with or without a tuned exhaust), and as a result of the tiny crankcase package there are structural limitations. Turns a 14x4 or 14x6 around 11,000 rpm - key being to prop the engine below 13,000 ground rpm (or it may tear itself up). Makes a very good 3d engine. It is an outstanding engine selection for scale projects where size and weight are factors. Probably would make a decent pattern engine too with a 11x10 or 12x9 and a full pipe - hauls my 40-60 size Edge with great authority... but the displacement is over 10cc. (this size engine was originally designed for the new CL engine displacement rules).
Images here are the type of intended application - Venus .40 , SJ-60L "hover" engine - with the lite-muffler (non-tuned). 12.25x3.75 prop. Setup turns about 14,500 rpm. Take this same type 60L engine, RE configuration, add a full pipe, set length a bit long for around 12,500-13,000 rpm peak - and it would probably run well with a 12x6.
As for me, my next EU1-A will have a FIRE-90L up front turning the 12x6 around 14,800 rpm
04-04-2007, 03:41 PM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
Dear "Brothers of the BPA"
Again, yesterday was another day of jubilation down on the Gulf Coast!
Phone rang, Man on the other end was my friend and Engine man, Dub Jett.
Well, after the adrenalin rush subsided, I knew I would be making the trip to the "northside" today.
Yeah, I fell in love with the first 2 so much, that I ordered the .60LX and another 90L.
The .60LX hummin' along there at 17k and the .90L running 14k So we are pumped one more time. Bought two of Dubs engine test stands as they are solid piece of Aluminum machined for either .40 size motors or .90 size. So I opted to get both. Only way IMHO, to get to know and set up your engine...On the stand.
Walked out with a good looking Cap and Shirt, compliments of Dub.
Pictures are simply to share the Joy! Really proud of these engines.
Again, yesterday was another day of jubilation down on the Gulf Coast!
Phone rang, Man on the other end was my friend and Engine man, Dub Jett.
Well, after the adrenalin rush subsided, I knew I would be making the trip to the "northside" today.
Yeah, I fell in love with the first 2 so much, that I ordered the .60LX and another 90L.
The .60LX hummin' along there at 17k and the .90L running 14k So we are pumped one more time. Bought two of Dubs engine test stands as they are solid piece of Aluminum machined for either .40 size motors or .90 size. So I opted to get both. Only way IMHO, to get to know and set up your engine...On the stand.
Walked out with a good looking Cap and Shirt, compliments of Dub.
Pictures are simply to share the Joy! Really proud of these engines.
04-04-2007, 10:27 PM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
Bob,
Everytime, I've been to Dub's place, 3 things always 'make me high'..... the smell of burnt glow fuel, the smell of coolant and most of all the myriad of engine parts that are in bin boxes or on the assembly bench. You nailed me right between the eyes.... I wish I could have one of them all!
Having made a "few" chips over the course of my life, you simply have to respect, the quality, the tolerances and the "TLC" which Dub puts into each and everyone of his engines. They are "his" babies and he treats them as such.
Oh and Now I know why Dub kept saying..."The only one in your size is Maroon"! ! !
Everytime, I've been to Dub's place, 3 things always 'make me high'..... the smell of burnt glow fuel, the smell of coolant and most of all the myriad of engine parts that are in bin boxes or on the assembly bench. You nailed me right between the eyes.... I wish I could have one of them all!
Having made a "few" chips over the course of my life, you simply have to respect, the quality, the tolerances and the "TLC" which Dub puts into each and everyone of his engines. They are "his" babies and he treats them as such.
Oh and Now I know why Dub kept saying..."The only one in your size is Maroon"! ! !
04-05-2007, 04:52 AM
#38
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
ORIGINAL: RCBuilder42yrs
Dear "Ballistic Brethren", [sm=shades_smile.gif]
Decided to share a bit of joy! I got a phone call earlier today from my friend over on the Northside! (Dub Jett) I jumped in the old pickup truck and headed for the "Big City". Upon arrival, I was presented with absolutely two of the most beautiful pieces of Jewelery I think I've ever seen.
We went back into Dubs test area where he ran both engines and then, presented me with my prizes and I've been drueling over them for most of the day.
Figured, my BPA "Buds" might appreciate looking at least at the Next Engine to go in my "Carolina Aircraft" T2A MKII. We ran the engine Rich on an APC 11 x 9 and it was turning 14000! !
So I'm going to only Hummmm as I type this to the old tune by the Oakridge Boys...... "My Baby is American Made"
Hope you guys enjoy the pictures.... Can hardly wait to get my hands on the T2A MKII and let the Hosses RUN!
"Gear up For Speed"
Tony
BPA #2
Boling,TX
[sm=shades_smile.gif]
Dear "Ballistic Brethren", [sm=shades_smile.gif]
Decided to share a bit of joy! I got a phone call earlier today from my friend over on the Northside! (Dub Jett) I jumped in the old pickup truck and headed for the "Big City". Upon arrival, I was presented with absolutely two of the most beautiful pieces of Jewelery I think I've ever seen.
We went back into Dubs test area where he ran both engines and then, presented me with my prizes and I've been drueling over them for most of the day.
Figured, my BPA "Buds" might appreciate looking at least at the Next Engine to go in my "Carolina Aircraft" T2A MKII. We ran the engine Rich on an APC 11 x 9 and it was turning 14000! !
So I'm going to only Hummmm as I type this to the old tune by the Oakridge Boys...... "My Baby is American Made"
Hope you guys enjoy the pictures.... Can hardly wait to get my hands on the T2A MKII and let the Hosses RUN!
"Gear up For Speed"
Tony
BPA #2
Boling,TX
[sm=shades_smile.gif]
-----------------
It's early, no coffee yet, but I've looked and looked and I can't see where you mentioned the engine's displacement????
Any engine that will turn an APC 11x9 at over 14k rpm is an absolute gorilla. That sounds like it would be something larger than a .90.
Ed Cregger
04-05-2007, 08:21 AM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
Tony, congrats on the new "investment". Girls like diamonds, guys like Jett motors. Nothing like em, and worth every penny given the performance and craftsmanship.
04-05-2007, 08:24 AM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger
Any engine that will turn an APC 11x9 at over 14k rpm is an absolute gorilla. That sounds like it would be something larger than a .90.
Ed Cregger
Any engine that will turn an APC 11x9 at over 14k rpm is an absolute gorilla. That sounds like it would be something larger than a .90.
Ed Cregger
Keep in mind the Jett 90L is the same size as an OS61FX and 91FX
What I think some folks might find handy here... the 60L and 60Lx engines will fit very nicely in those older pattern designs like the troublemaker and eyeball - stuff where the old ST53, Veco 61, Bluehead and Blackheads were used - those were fairly "small" footprint engines.
Trying to fit todays big-block .61 engines in those planes can be difficult. (i saw another thread asking about this somewhere...).
The Jett 60L engines will probably work out pretty well for the smaller/older "45-60 size" designs.
04-05-2007, 09:30 AM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
No Monkey business here.
jatik
jatik
Besides the only "Monkey Business" I know about was a company that sold tire patches, years ago, to fix flats when we were running inner tubes!
04-05-2007, 10:01 AM
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RE: Ballistic Powerhouse--Arrival ! ! !
Sorry if you took monkey note as rubbing Tony,
I only wanted to Show to Ed Cregger (as arrow points out in picture) that he was on right track as he pulled Gorilla out the bag...
It is surely 90l engine, we can only drool on those nice engines here at north...
I only wanted to Show to Ed Cregger (as arrow points out in picture) that he was on right track as he pulled Gorilla out the bag...
It is surely 90l engine, we can only drool on those nice engines here at north...
