funkymusic

All I can say is 'Wow' the attention to detail you guys are applying to these planes is incredible. I'm really enjoying khodges koverall tutorial. I'm sorry I can't contribute to the ribbing tonight, I just got in from class and OSU lost so I'm not in the best moods.

Chuck

Jacque

My Feedback: (22)

Khodges, I hope you don,t use the wheel pants bracket that came with that plane. the wheel collar seperates from the bracket . some guys have damaged there planes pretty good when they came off in the air. Mine actually came off on the bench. can,t tell from the picts if you changed them or not. you are doing a great job on that waco. good photos.


Jacque Waco Brotherhood #27

r/c John

My Feedback: (2)

orry Fellows, but I may have answered the wrong party here. Someone wanted to have one of the kit cutters laser parts for the YMF-3 and I was under the impression that Cox had purchsed the rights to reproduce Pica kits! I am however very happy to hear that they were donated to the AMA, and do intend to buy a set.

funkymusic

Brotherhood,

I haven’t had any luck finding a kit. I went to the AMA site for plans. Please advise, it’s listed as AMA# 35406 1/5 Scale PICA KIT PLAN WS 72. Anyone familiar with this set of plans? Thanks.

Stickbuilder

That is the set that came with the kit when Pica produced it.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

skylarkmk1

fm,

Those are the plans from the kit, however they are incomplete, missing the fuselage formers and ribs. Stickbuilder and others are tracing the parts, converting them and adding the instructions (with updates) to be forwarded to the AMA to complete the plans for a total plan package.

funkymusic

Ok, thanks John. I'll hold on getting the AMA plans until Master Chief provides them with his revisions. Mean while, Master Chief, do you have a material list available so that I can start getting things in order?

Chuck

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Jim, the panel lines will remain, because they are individual panels.I looked at pics of the YMF Classic and made patterns using exposed X-Ray film (it's about 8 mil thick flexible plastic, and after exposure is clear). I traced the patterns onto the fuse so I could position them, and then traced them onto 1/64 ply and cut them out and individually applied them using slow Ca. The pieces overlap from front to rear, and top to bottom, just as the full scale panels are overlapped (not flush fit). I sanded the panels where they overlap prior to gluing them on, so that the overlapped area wouldn't be as thick (they overlap about 1/16 inch). I have sanded them after they were all applied, to help smooth the whole thing, and also decrease the edges a bit. I won't dope the panels, just the fabric; I'll prime the wood when I prime the dope, and use 600 grit paper to smooth the primer, then add rivet detail (haven't decided just how as yet), then paint.

Jacque, I remember when you posted about the wheel collars coming loose from the bracket on the wheel pants. When I got ready to mount mine, I took a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel, ground the yellow paint off and roughened up the metal; then I used JB Weld and reinforced the join between the flat bracket and collar. I flattened two places on the wheel collars, opposite each other and facing the outside ends of the bracket. Then I mounted the bracket to the wheel pant, with the collar inside the slot and the set screw facing down. I had smeared a very thin coat of Vaseline inside the slot of the pant, and I filled the slot around the bracket and wheel collar with Epoxolite putty. It forms around the wheel collar and bracket to the shape of the slot on the wheel pant, but doesn't bond to the pant because of the vaseline. I can still remove the pant from the bracket by removing the screws, and can remove the bracket from the axle by removing the set screw. The wheel collar is completely imbedded in epoxy and firmly attached to the little bracket, and the remainder of the slot is filled for appearance. I ground a flat spot on the axle for the set screw, so it won't rotate. It's not going anywhere. I also reinforced the wood blocks in the wheel pants with another layer of fiberglass, as well as the entire insides of the pants. i've had a couple of planes with wheel pants in the past, and long grass will tear them up after repeated landings.

My pants are mounted high enough that you can see a small portion of the wheel rims, and the tails of the pants are parallel to the gound with the plane sitting on its gear, with about 1-1/2 inches clearance to the ground. Our club has a paved runway, and I plan to use it as much as possible on this bird.

skylarkmk1

fm,

If you want to get a preview of the plans or even have them printed out (the 2 pages for the 1/6th costs about the same as the 3 pages for the 1/5th from AMA) go here http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ courtesy of ChrisMH. It has the plans, both 1/5th and 1/6th, the short manual (about 17 pages revised) are PDF and the parts are in jpg and dxf format. I do not know if all the parts are converted to clean dxf and if you use the jpg, you will have to resize them to fit. Fair warning.

I have a copy of the long manual (45+ pages unrevised) that I am slowly re-typing and revising with the upgrades and other details from this and other YMF forums and will forward it to ChrisMH to convert to PDF and post on the web page. Be patient.

Stickbuilder

Chuck, & Everyone else.....

The AMA has had the parts templates (minus the tailfeathers which are built over the plan) for about a month now. I do not know what their time line is going to be to have these placed on a large sheet to make them easier to use. The material is called out on each individual part. Be advised that the material is non-standard in thickness, since all the balsa sheet parts and sheeting is called out at 5/32". I will be using a mixture of 1/8" and 3/16" balsa for my next one. Balsa USA and Lone Star used to offer balsa in custom dimension, but it is probably not cost effective. The same is true for the Spars, but most of the other parts are standard 1/8" ply, and some 1/8" sheeting for the wings and a tiny amount of 1/16" sheeting. The stringers are 1/4" square hard balsa. The sheet stock is mostly 30" X 3", with the exception of the cowl ring which is 3/4" thick. The ring is made in 3 parts. There are several odd blocks for the L/E tip stock as well as the bottom tail piece. All thickness and dimensions are called out on the plans for the spar stock and leading edges.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

skylarkmk1

For those of you that are looking for WACO info, (Full size and model) here are some of the site I have found;

Full size WACO information;

American Waco Club http://www.americanwacoclub.com/

National WACO Club - http://www.nationalwacoclub.com/

WACO Historical Society and Museum - http://www.wacoairmuseum.org/society/society.htm

Aerofiles – WACO - http://aerofiles.com/_waco.html
Has the Letter Codes broken down and more

RTPTV - Barnstormers http://www.rtptv.homestead.com/rtpbarnstormers.html
Video of a WACO in flight

Rag Bag Aero Works http://www.ragbag.com/AWC/
Apparel for Airplane Nuts

WACO Classic Aircraft Corporation - http://www.wacoclassic.com/intro.html (Home Page)
http://www.wacoclassic.com/replacementlinks.htm (Links Page)
Makers of “New� WACO YMFs

Biplane Adventures http://www.michaelmccafferty.com/adventures/
Flying A WACO YMF in America and Europe by M. McCafferty

Historic Aircraft Restoration Museum (HARM) http://www.historicaircraftrestorationmuseum.org/
Located at Creve Couer Airport near St. Louis and is also known as Dauster Field. Not too much info on site, but the Museum does have about 10 different WACOs (no YMF/UMFs). There is a WACO Fly In scheduled in June and I plan to be there to take picture (walk around style with close ups). Hopefully there will be a YMF/UMF there (I know of one Classic (new) YMF in the area, but have not heard back from the owner yet).

Model Information;

Cox Models http://www.coxmodels.com/
1/5th and 1/6th ARF’s of the Pica WACO YMF

Vintage R/C Plans – http://www.vintagercplans.com/main.htm

60� WACO UMF, page 3 (Plastic Cowl and pants available) #115RC
56� WACO UPF-7, page 4 (Plastic Cowl and Pants available)
69-1/2� WACO SRE, Page 5 (Plastic Cowl and Pants available) #126

Kit Cutters- http://www.kitcutters.com/

Mammoth Scale Plans 99.3� WACO YKS- 6 (Cabin)
Novack/Morgan 69.5� WACO SRE
60� WACO UMF-3
56� WACO UPF-7
Others (SPPS) 73� WACO 10
Pepino 90� YMF 3/5

Genesis R/C http://www.genesis-rc.com/
30% (120�) and 40% (142�) WACO YMF kits and Turnkey Planes

I posted more plans and their sources on page 39, post 963.

Stickbuilder

John,

Thank you so much for posting these links. I thought that I had a good handle on what was out there concerning the WACO alphabet soup, but you posted some that I was not aware of.

The casual observer may read this thread, and think that we are nothing but a bunch of joksters who are not serious about modelling the WACO biplanes. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are serious modellers, but we are intelligent enough to leaven the boring minatuae of the hobby with some humor. We have had some who tried to make this too serious, and they have obviously gone elsewhere to find their information, or have stopped participating in the posting of information. It's a shame, but it's their loss.

To all who come here looking for information; Please do not be offended by what is offered here. This is an extremely large post, and to my knowledge for 74 pages, there has not been one occasion where a moderator, or administrator has needed to caution or discipline any member. I do not know if this is a record, but it's gotta be close to one. We are a Brotherhood of like minded modellers who are dedicated to building and flying these wonderful old rag-bags, and preserving their heritage in miniature. The Dave Platt WACO YMF/UMF that was so popular for years had been lost to the modelling world in kit form, and only recently had been brought out as an ARF. While the ARF does have the basic dimension of the original Kit, the plan-form and structure of the model differs so much from the Kit version as to be totally redesigned, and not even close to the original. The WACO Brotherhood melds the owners of both the kit and ARF versions of this wonderful old plane, without the normal bickering among the proponents of each discipline (Kit and ARF). We have succeeded where others have failed. We are truly a brotherhood, working together. Ken has done a wonderful job of converting the ARF to a great scale model of the UMF. Even surpassing some of the better kit build models of the same plane. (Take your bow Ken) I am swimming in unfamiliar water with the variable incidence Horizintal Stab on my latest model. Others are going in different directions with power sources, materials and techniques. This is what we are about. My experiments may not work well in practice, but the entire group will profit by these experiments, since we share all information with all. This is not a group of Prima-Donna's who keep the secrets to themselves. Hopefully in the years to come others will profit by what we have been able to accomplish here, and now with the AMA holding the rights to the plans and the parts templates, this model has risen from it's ashes as did the mythological Phoenix, and will be able to be built by anyone and everyone who wishes to do so.

Ahem...Time to climb down from the old soap box, and go make some Balsa chips fly.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

ps....In case it's not clear, I really do like building WACO's.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Wow.


Man, can you wax eloquent. You can wax poetic. Can you wax my plane?


That was nicely said, Master Chief, and I appreciate the compliment. If I can even be considered the least of these Brothers and their building abilities, then I have achieved more than I could have hoped for.

John, thanks for all those links; I'm constantly looking for new sources of info, and I added all those to My Favorites.

Nightstalker

Ditto the Lt... and then some. You write and express yourself well, Master Chief... for a Tennessee farm boy / Torpedo Man!!!

I thought for sure I was gonna be asked politely (or not so politely) to "post on topic" or KEEP OUTTA HERE - "You ol' Reprobate", "Doggie, Wise *****", "Desert Rat, Chicken Stealin', Sheep... err..." But when I try to subdue it... "Hey Nightstalker... where you been????" "Try to write something semi-intelligeable... you ol' Barn Stalker etc"... From all services even...

Out Here (and thanks)

Nightstalker

Doggie 47

Nightstalker

John,
I closed my last post prematurely... (just ask my wife ).

Thanks' Master Sergeant. Great links indeed.

Nightstalker

Doggie 47

Jacque

My Feedback: (22)

Khodges, Sounds like you have it in control. You are doing a great job . most people won,t know that started as an ARF. I,m eager to see the finished product, And I wish I could see the maiden flight. good luck



Jacque Waco Brotherhood #27

Stickbuilder

I done good, huh????

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Nightstalker

Not bad... for a Sailor!

And Lt - You will inevetably be asked, "Hey is that an ARF?". And you can just smile and say, "Well, it used to be...". [8D]

Todd

Doggie 47

Merlins Magic

Update on the Cox/ Pica merge can be found here: http://www.coxmodels.com/default.asp

old git

Did I hear someone say that "You waxed an elephant?"

Why did you do that, was it to enable it to travel faster or to remove the negligable hair from its hide?




old git - - - - - - - aka John L.

WACO Brotherhood No. 14.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Just don't dislocate your shoulder pattin' yourself on the back.


Todd, I'm just about at the point in getting it together as someone who just bought the ARF and opened the box would be. Matter of fact, they could get theirs ready faster than I can finish what I have left to do. I'm thinking maybe Memorial Day for Maiden flight.

Nightstalker

Ken... err... Sir... You have "Un-ARFed" your plane into a potential Master Piece... take your time as you are. If'n it takes you to the Fourth of July - so be it. This ain't a race. You could have very easily assembled your Cox ARF right out of the box and been flyin' her long ago. Plus, I bet you feel a whole lot prouder of your plane than someone who just opened their new ARF... and you're not even done yet!

When you start "sprayin' and prayin' " post more pics of your progress... I just got a new air brush to play with and I need some inspiration and schoolin'. Lot harder than it looks, but I'll get the hang of it... maybe. This dry, hot climate doesn't help much either.

Nightstalker
Doggie 47

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Finally got everything covered this evening. I didn't make any pictures, the bottom wing covers the same way the top wing did, and the elevators ditto the rudder. I hope to start doping tomorrow, but the weather is gonna turn cool, down in the 50's daytime, and as low as the 30's at night, plus the wind is up. With all the pollen in the air, I might end up with a yellowish-green plane. So I might have to wait a few days. After the first coat of dope, I'll apply rib and seam tapes and will post pics. Then comes the remainder of doping, priming and painting, and then final ssembly and flying wires. The wires are going to be a silver elastic cord; it stays tight, is easy to unhook for disassembly, is durable, and looks like the scale wires. One of my flying buddies that flies WWI stuff uses it on his warplanes and it looks great.

Nightstalker

Wahhhh!!!... it's too cold to paint.... Ya wanna trade some hi 80F temps?... No wind and no humidity??? Didn't think so... Back out to the cement pond... Dang beer... evaporated AGAIN... and I just opened it!!!

Out Here,

Nightstalker

Doggie 47

jim schroer

Well, I quit repeating Ole Git's mantra about a week and a half ago and wouldn"t you know it , there's a Dave Platte 1/6 Waco-YMF-3 kit in the basement now. Sorry John L. , you did the best you could. Among all the problems that this has created, the one that stands out is the fact that I didn't get an instruction/construction manual with it. So this is a call to The Brotherhood for help. I'll beg or borrow or buy. Pay for zerox and shipping or whatever. However, jpg, dxf, and such won't work for me, and the printer quit working. thanks, Jim #9