smchale

My Feedback: (67)

My preference has always been to use nylon wing bolts. I don't use slotted unless they aren't slotted all the way to the edge of the head. Nothing worse than the screwdriver slipping off and damaging your covering. I like the 1/4-20 nylon bolts with hex heads. This way you can use a hex head 'nut driver' or an allen key type screw driver. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXE097&P=7
Grab yourself a drill and tap for that size and you're set forever.

Garthwood

John.................Nylon bolts.

charles.

tuwood

The kit comes with metal bolts, but you pretty much have to use loc tite on them if you don't want them to vibrate out.

When I was running the engine in on mine (on the ground) both vibrated out & were laying on the ground after I was done. I just put some loc tite (the removable kind) on them and it held them in place. However over the long term that would get pretty messy so I'll switch to plastic on the next one.

Thinn

I never had any problems with the bolt vibrating out, but I know it is a common problem with metal bolts. If you want to use Nylon, I would choose M5 or similar. Thread the ply stock directly and apply thin CA on the threads. Let this dry proparly (NO accelerator!!) before using.

Another trick is to glue in a carbon tube or similar into the wing where the wing bolts go through. This ensures that the wing itself is not compressed when you tighten the bolts..

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

good deal- thank you guys. I have drilled out the existing mounting holes where there was a small blindnut and replaced them with a pair of 1/4 x20 blindnuts.
Im about halfway thru replacing the hold down hardpoints out on the wings where the
smaller 4-40 blindnuts are. there were several that were sheered off. Then its on to recovering the wings and mount the engine back up and I'll be done- I hope Anyone used a YS 120 in their's before? Thats what came with this one, I hope it will be a rocket
Thanks ,
John

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

Update: I did the maiden ( for me anyway) on the ultimate. I had the field to myself all day. I was really surprised that no one ever showed up , I guess due to the heat- It was 98° at noon. I went for it though. This was my first ever time to take-off and land a bipe of any kind. It has a YS 120 on it and Ive been repairing the covering on it because it was in such bad shape. Anywho, I taxied out and did a couple of slow speed run-ups on the runway to get a feel for it, and about the 3rd time I said to myself, I said "self, lets do this" and off I went. 3 clicks of up trim on the elevator was all it needed for hands off flight. It is pretty quick too I might ad witha 16x8 prop. I am going to experiment with a couple different size props,a 15x10 as well as a 17x10 just to see what they fly like. I will post pics when I get them.
later,
John

tuwood

Excellent news!!! I'm glad everything went well & look forward to the pic's.

iflyfisher

Congrats on the flight, John. Nice to hear the maiden was uneventful. The first bipe I flew was my Andrews Aeromaster. It was my third plane following a Hobbico Avistar and Great Planes Big Stik. I was pretty nervous as I had put a lot of hours into building and covering that plane. My biggest problem was with the take off roll. It took me a few attempts until I got one straight enough to take to the air. Once in the air, it flew like a dream. I still have the Aeromaster, and it remains one of my favorite planes to fly. I am building the GB Ultimate to be my primary bipe so I can keep the hours down on the Aeromaster. One of these days I'll get the Ultimate done. I took time off from it to build a hydro plane, which I am now flying off the lake behind me house. Now that plane is done, I'll get back to my Ultimate!

Ken

iflyfisher

Back at the Ultimate again. Got my rudder control retrofitted with pull/pull, the cowl openings all cut, and the fuse reinforced to handle the aluminum gear. I hope to install the gear tonight. Anybody using nylon bolts for the gear? I'm not sure how much value they add, so I used steel bolts on my Citabria. Thinking of doing the same on the Ultimate.

My Ultimate also had been built with the steel bolts for the lower wing. Prior to covering it, I reinforced the trailing edge with thin ply but I left the mounting holes untouched. I wasn't overly concerned about using the steel bolts but had never given any thought to the fact they might vibrate out. Now you have me wondering if I should retrofit for 1/4" nylon bolts or just use teflon tape when attaching the wing. I probably won't be leaving the plane fully assembled, so I need some ease at assembly and disassembly at the field.

I'm probably not going to fly with wheelpants as our grass field is really rough. But I do want to mount the pants and paint them while I am painting the cowl. Once I get the gear mounted, I think the last step is really to paint the cowl and pants. I'd love to get to that this week.

Nice to be making progress again!

Ken

plasticjoe

My Feedback: (22)

I've been kicking around the ideal of a Zenoah G20ei in mine.... currently I have a saito .91 in it... it flies ok... but seems a little short on the power side. Is there enough room under the cowl for the Zenoah ?

iflyfisher

The Ultimate is about there. Still don't have the painting done. I hope to get to it this week. I do need to install the fuel tank, rx, and switch, and I want to seal all my hinge lines. I did a rough check of my cg by balancing the plane inverted on my fingertips, and it seems to be about in the middle of the suggested range, which is great as I won't have to add any weight to the nose or tail.

The plane seems much bigger with the wings, cowl, and pants on.

Garthwood

Saturday I did my third test flight on the CG Ultimate 10-300 BLUE HAWK. Like you I balanced it on the tip of my finger upside down, at the C of G of 2.5 inches. It balanced a hair down to almost level. Report: Inverted at 45 degs, still needed a bit down. Take off was very good, required right rudder. Typical. I have also increased the throws for the elevators. Landing was quite good. Applying slight power and elevator made a smooth landing. Although the Ultimate can be slowed down to a crawl, preference would be to come in with a bit of power and let her sink in while applying a bit of elevator before touch down. I have not added any weights to this ARF.
I think if the CG is moved to 2-7/8ths to 3.00inches and the battrey is moved back behind the servo tray it will balance perfectly and while flying inverted at 45 degs should fly hands off and level, making the landings even much smoother.

This is a beautiful flying machine. It will go where you aim it, you can fly her wild or you can fly her dociled. I had to do a few flights before I could fly her with confidence. I have 70 % exponential on the elevator and 40 % on the ailerons and 25 % on the rudder.
The Rudder is a pull-pull. I did not use the hardware that came with the ARF kit. My pushrods are 4-40 ball links. I'm running a Saito 120 with PowerMaster 15/20 all synthetic fuel. Servos are Futaba 9202 and 9001 ( 3004 on the throttle.)
You have to keep on top of it when flying the Ultimate, it is a high performance aircraft.
Good luck.
Charles.

iflyfisher

Hey Charles, congrats on another successful flight. You find you have plenty of power with the 120? My 150 is probably a little overkill, but I purchased it used for a really good price, and it doesn't weigh any more than the 120. It is just going to drink more fuel. I run 15% Omega in my other Saitos, plan on doing the same with this one. I don't think this engine has had much fuel through it. Has your 120 been pretty easy to break in?

Someone built this one at least 8-10 years ago. A guy I knew had it sitting around in the bones for years. Several years ago, I bought it off him and covered most of it. Then I moved and it just sat. I would have liked a stronger firewall. This one has the stock ply. I hope it holds up to the vibration from the 150. I'll have to keep an eye on it. It also doesn't have much of a servo tray just some hardwood rails epoxied in. Looked like they should hold up, so I didn't change anything there. I am going to try and shoot some primer on the pants and cowl this afternoon. I want to get this plane in the air before winter hits.

When I checked my cg, I didn't have the muffler on, the pants, nor the canopy. I had set the battery and rx right near the landing gear. I too can probably move the cg back a bit moving the battery back. Where is your battery now? All my servos are the S148's with the exception of an S3010 on the rudder.

Ken

iflyfisher

Hey Charles, I have another question for you. I have my Saito 150 mounted horizontal with the needle valve up. I am getting ready to mount my tank and I am wondering if I might have a problem. The spray bar of the carb is right at the height of the top of the tank. I generally try to shoot for the center of the tank. I posted a note on the Saito Club forum, but I am wondering how you have your 120 mounted? Anyone else out there run across this in their builds and what if anything did you do about it?

I could flip the carb over, but then the throttle control lever is at the top and scrapes against my cowl.

Garthwood

Hi Ken...........My Saito 120 is mounted sideways as you can see from the picture. The High end adjustment is facing down, I can easily adjust the carb. The low end is facing up. I drilled a small hole on top of the cowl, so that I can easily get to it when the time comes to make the low end adjustment. I did come across the throttle scaping you mentioned, but in my case I only had to sand down with a dremel tool the screw that holds the ball push rod. My Saito 120 gone through about a gallon of fuel. I am amazed by this engine starting on the get go. I'm using a Sullivan high torque electric start. This engine so far been running the way I like it. So far I'm not at that point to touch the low end adjustment. Just follow Saito's recommendations.

Charles

Garthwood

Hi Ken..................the CG should be checked with all the quipment mounted, cowl, etc etc. with fuel tank empty. I have a five cell 1400 Mah battery. With the lower wing off and plane is upside down, I mounted the battery over the end of the fuel tank and secured.

A friend who has the kit built CG Ultimate has a Saito 150, his battery is a five cell and is mounted further back behind the servo tray. His Saito 150 is mounted inverted, so you do not see any part of the engine. He has an onboard glow with this engine. During landing or take off it comes on. Like you he bought the Ultimate including the engine at a good price.

My CarlGoldber Ultimate is an ARF, it weighs about 10 lbs. His weighs 10.5. I find the 120 fits this size of biplane with power to spare.

Hope I been of some help. Not sure if I have pictures with the cowl off, but I'll look into it.

Charles.

Garthwood

Ken..............you could still flip the carb. where the high end needle adjustment will be on top of the cowl and the low end adjustment in the bottom. A while back I saw a thread and that's how the guy had it. But I find that it is easier to adjust the low speed needle if it is locatated at the top of the cowl. I could take some pictures to show you how and where they're located on mine.

Charles.

iflyfisher

Charles, I went back and found your pictures. I had forgetten they were in this thread. You do seem to have more clearance with the throttle than I have on mine. I got a comment back from a guy on a Saito thread who felt I would be okay with the high speed needle up as I have it. I am going to install a one way check valve on the exhaust line going to the tank to help keep the pressure up in the tank and hope it works okay. I'll be running a couple of tanks through the Saito before flying, so hopefully any problem will surface before I take to the skies.

I fabricated a tank mount last night and got the tank mounted as well as installed a fuel dot for fueling. I also sanded and filled the pinholes in my pants and cowl. I was going to prime, but I didn't have any primer. I picked up some Krylon primer this evening, but didn't get a chance to do anything with it. Hopefully I can shoot the primer tomorrow. Also got some hard points epoxied in where the cowl screws pass through the fuse. Down to a few small things now.

I picked up a 5 cell 600 mah nicad pack a year or so ago to use in the bipe. I usually don't get more than three or four flights out of a plane when I get out flying, so 600 mah should get me by. I'll get the plane pretty much completed prior to installing the battery. Then find the best spot for it after doing a final cg check with the plane fully assembled. I'll also put the plane on the scales and see just where the weight comes in. I had been hoping to be around 9.5 pounds, but I built a tray for the fuel tank and did a little more reinforcing that will add some weight. Maybe I can still check in under 10 pounds! The good news is that I should not have to add any weight to the nose or tail based upon my prelimary cg check.

Can't wait to hear that big 4 stroke pulling that bipe around! Had my Saito 91 powered Midwest Citabria out this weekend. Those 4 strokes sound great. Oh, is your starter the dynatron 12v/24v version? If so, how does it do with 12v? If I prime my saito .91s well, I can usually hand start pretty easily. I don't know how the 150 will be.

Ken

Garthwood

Hi Ken......................glad you're moving along with your Ultimate, and Yes it is the Sullivan Dynatron Super Hi-torque starter. 12/24
My friend who has the Saito 150 on his Ultimate is able to start it with no problem with 12v battery using the Dynatron, but he also has a 12v+12v hook up that he uses as well. You will enjoy the sound with your Saito for sure. All my 4 strokes are Saitos. I have a Saito .91 on my Waco YMF 3
1/6 TH. scale that I built from a Pica kit. Make sure you put washers and blue lock tight on the cowl screws. After your initial flight check your landing gear screws. In regard to my plumbing set up, I have a third line Dot for fuelling and defuelling, that goes directly down from the front. Just have to remember that when you defuel the tank the nose have to be down a bit.

Charles.

iflyfisher

I've been a huge fan of the Waco ever since a saw a pair of full-scale, over-powered versions fly at an airshow over 20 years ago. I almost purchased a 1/4 scale version a few years ago, but decided against it as I just wasn't flying glow/gas that much at the time due to field and time issues.

iflyfisher

Well the Ultimate is essentially flyable. I need to paint the yellow and black trim on the cowl and install the battery. I buttoned everything up tonight to check the cg and determine where to mount the battery. If I center the battery over the bottom wing, my cg is about 2" back or right at the front end of the recommended range. So I think I will build a bracket and mount it far enough down the fuse to get my cg somewhere nearer to 2 1/2 inches back. While I had it all together, I tossed it on the scale, and it weighed in at 9 pounds 1.4 ounces with cowl but no pants. Adding the yellow trim to the cowl will add a little more weight, and my battery bracket will add a bit, but I am going to easily be under my goal of 9.5 pounds! With the Saito 150 I should have plenty of umpff!

If the weather is decent tomorrow, I might try to get to the field and at least run a few tanks of Omega through the Saito. Maybe I can get the engine all dialed in by the time I get the cowl done.

Tuwood, were it not for your thread, I'd probably still have that plane partially covered sitting in the storage room. Now I have another plane in the hangar to fly!

Thanks to all for the inspiration!

Ken

Garthwood

Good luck with your maiden................ Keep cool, don't speed her up on the maiden. I mentioned before that I had sealed all hinge lines. Mainly because I had experienced flutter on the maiden flight, and I was'nt going fast. I have seen the Ultimate with a Saito 150 the weight came in at 10.5 Lbs. but she was still strong and lots of power to spare.


charles.

iflyfisher

Thanks for the tips Charles. I plan to use fairly conservative throws the first time out. And I'll do keep the speed down. How's the takeoff roll?

I might be ready for the maiden this coming weekend. I got the Saito 150 out to the field this evening for some break in. My old starter won't start it, so I just started it by hand with a chicken stick. I ran it for about a half hour at no higher than 4k rpms then finally started to lean it out a bit. I still didn't get the rpms much over 6K, but I am amazed at how much that 150 pulls. What a horse! Next time out I'll lean it out to within 400 or so rpms of max, and it might be ready to fly. I was going to get the yellow painted on my cowl last night, but I plugged my wing into the rx and one of the servos was very lazy. These servos have been in the wings for years. So I pulled the servos, got rid of the servo extension, and soldered in an extension. They seemed to work just fine after that. Unfortunately, to the get the old servo extension out of the wing, I had to cut out a couple of sections of covering between ribs. The blasted tape used to hold the extensions onto the servos had become partially unraveled, and there was no way that servo wire was going to come out. So the evening got shot screwing around with that stuff. Never ends it seems once we get close.

I'm going to order one of the Sullivan Dynatron starters. Do these come with a rubber cone, and will that cone fit my 3" spinner on the Ultimate or do I need to order another rubber cone along with the starter?

Ken

iflyfisher

Had hoped to get the Ultimate out this weekend, but I had only sprayed the last stripes on the cowl Friday night. So the Citabria got the air time instead. I have set up the control throws using those recommended in the manual. The manual, however suggests using the low rates for high and 75% of that for the low rates for the first flights. This is not a lot of throw. I think the ailerons ended up with only about a quarter inch throw. Tuwood, I noticed you had much higher rates set for your maiden flight. How did your rates seem? Anybody else have any recommendations?

My cowl and pants turned out okay. I'm not the best painter, and had some issues with my mask lines. The paint didn't leak under as I like to spray a very light mist for the first coat; however, for some reason I got this very thin, shallow trough right along the mask line in my base coat. I haven't had that happen before. But then again, painting is not my forte. Perhaps I waited just a little too long to pull my mask up (which I do pull down and across itself), or maybe it is this stupid Lustrecoat paint. I had two cans of white that would never spray right and ended up tossing both, and my black just kept spitting. Not very fun stuff to use.

Hope to report on the maiden this coming weekend unless I can sneak out of work early one afternoon this week.

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

Is there any reason why not to mount the engine inverted? I plan on a Saito 180 inverted for better lateral balance. If not all the way inverted then perhaps at an angle. I mainly run my Saito's this way without issue and it is why I ask.