jersue

My Feedback: (40)

Hey Guys, today was a pretty good day. I got the first two flights on my P-61. The first flight went off without a hitch. A long takeoff roll, and then I had to pick it off as it didn't want to rotate. I was expecting that from the previous posts. A little steep on the climb out requiring a few clicks of down elevator. I had added a little up trim before take off. Two clicks of right aileron and she was flying staight and level. I reduced the throttles to about half throttle which felt real comfortable. The airplane appeared VERY stable with no bad traits. After about six trips around the pattern, I made a high speed low pass for the camera. I did not retract the gear nor did I try the flaps. I set up for a landing with a wide downwind and a fairly long final, only reducing the power below 1/3 when I was on final. The landing was picture perfect. I held it off until it gently touched on the mains with the nose wheel still in the air. One of my better landings. I have an excellent video of the landing but we have to figure out how to get it out of his camera and into this forum. The second flight also started off well with a better takeoff and climb out. After several trips around the pattern, I retracted the gear. The nose pitched down some even though I had mixed in some up trim. Needs more up, so I put the gear back down right away. I then tried the first positon on the flpas. Again the nose pitched down a little----not too bad. I had mixed in some up trim with the flaps, but not enough, so I pulled the flaps back up. After a couple more trips around the pattern I set us for a low pass, with the power back to about 1/3, but when I advanced the the throttles, the right engine quit. The other engine had got to nearly full throttle but there was no problem controlling the airplane with the ailerons. I pulled the power back to idle and landed straight ahead in the very rough grass at the end of the paved runway. It was fairly good landing, but both main gear snapped off at the little metal adapter between the gear leg and retract mechanism. Right where the treaded portion ended. There was no other damage. Here are a couple of poor pictures. I am VERY pleased with my new P-61. The sound of the twins purring away in sync and the black and white against a beautiful blue sky was awsome. I love it. Much better reports than with my ASM C-130. Thanks Hobby People. Jerry

Tommy_Gun

Well here she is.

The first flight was fine. The YS 63s never gave me ANY cause for concern and provided MORE than enough power.

My Black Widow weighed in at 12.5 lbs with the CG set at the 4" mark and no ballast was needed.

I felt the elevator was a little too sensitive so I plan to install a longer horn on the elevator and maybe dial in a little expo to smooth things out.

It took about 1/4 right aileron trim and 1/4 up elevator trim for hands off flight.

I too noted an obvious nose down effect when dropping the flaps to the half position.

It seems to float in just fine for landing with no drama or nasty habits.

The right main gear did not lock down on the first landing and thus caused the results at the end of the first video.
This was my own fault as I had disassembled the right gears air cylinder and upon reassembly I tweaked the frame and set up a little more friction in the unit than should be there.

First flight
http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/77QBM7NM1ZPJCDXS

Third flight
http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/FC0C39MHDNKYSFSW
This is not a build job to complete this plane.
It is instead what I call a "systems installation" job. As the plane is already built and I really had to use almost no glue to complete the plane.

I am completely satisfied with this plane.
It's flight qualities and appearance and sound when its in the sky are a great combination!

jersue

My Feedback: (40)

Congratulations Tommy Gun on your first flights. GOOD SHOW and great videos---thanks. You sound very pleased, just as I was, after my first flights. I think we have a winner here. I spent over 20 years living in the Sacramento area and still have a son and daughter living in Roseville. I'll look you up the next time I'm in town.
Jerry

Eric.Henderson

Tommy Gun and all of you P-61 pilots,
I am very happy that you found the airlane good to fly. As a reviewer I wait with some degree of anticipation to see if others have the same experiences as my own. I just loved flying mine at our local field or at a warbird event.

Mine now has shorter mains to help in the initial rotation on take-off. I also moved the CG back 1/2". The wheels-up trim was exactly 1/16" of down elevator. Application of the full flap produced a pronounced downwards dive. I carry an automatic up elevator trim of 1/4" on full flap. Obviously this varies according to how much flap you apply.

To get the right setting I made a mix to the elevator that was tied to the flap switch. The slider or knob only works when the flap is turned on. A slider or a knob control can then be used during flight to get the right amount of flap to elevator-trim relationship. It can then be measured and mixed directly to the flap switch after the flight is over.

Regards,

Eric.

Eric.Henderson

Some pictures I didn't use.

The three-bladed prop was a lot slower than the two bladers. They looked cool but made the flights a bit sluggish.

Eric.

Jimmy Bananas

My Feedback: (13)

Well going to give my two cents worth on the P-61...I too like Eric, enjoy flying this plane..no bad habits what so ever...Still waiting for an engine out landing...hopefully that will never happen..Am happy i went with Saito's 62 FS..Power plus reliability...have alot of nice comments on this plane...cured that climb after you take off and retract the gear...I have a JR 9303 radio and I mixed gear and elevator and have the right amount of down trim, so far it has been nice to have the plane fly level after retracting the gear...only use about 10 degrees of flap for landings..settles in very nice on the main gear....I have the shorter version struts on mine and it do make a differnce on take off..BYW, had a leaky retract valve, which i had to do two belly landings with the gear up...No damage and I did fix the valve,so no more belly landings... :-))....So anyone thinking about getting this bird,do it..You won't be disappointed...I am a happy camper............

Tommy_Gun

I experienced my first engine out today with my YS 63's.

Fortunately(?), BOTH engines died at the same time from me running the tanks DRY!!

It looks as though I managed to get my fuel tank setup (clunk position), as well as my throttle rigging as close as possible.
I am only using a Y-harness for the throttle servos, and set both throttles to see the same angles from idle to full power mechanically.

I am still running the 63's a bit on the rich side until I get a few more runs on them.

The plane floated in with 1 notch of flaps, about 15 degrees, and landed off the end of the runway with no damage at all.

I made one little "S" turn on approach to bleed a little altitude so as to prevent landing any longer.

Once I verified that I had run the tanks dry, I refueled so I could make a flight that would end with me taxiing the plane back under power!

It is a great twin engined subject to model and I am glad this was my first twin.

Tommy_Gun

For those interested in running the Spring Air 102HD retracts.
Here are a couple detail shots of how mine are mounted.

Remember, you also have to fabricate the door mechanisms yourself when you use a different set of retracts.
I spent more time fabricating door hold open springs that worked to my liking than any other part of the project.

jersue

My Feedback: (40)

I have about 15 flights on my Black Widow now, (and not a scratch) and I could not be more pleased with it. Three of the flights had an engine out, one on climb out, and you could hardly tell that only one engine was running. In all cases I maintained perfect control of the airplane just by using normal aileron controls. Of course, I landed as soon as I knew I had an engine out, and did not continue flying any longer than was necessary than to get back to the runway, safely. I have about 1/4" of rudder mixed in with the ailerons. This is a beautiful airplane, very forgiving and one of the easiest airplanes I own, to land. Every landing has been picture perfect----even the engine out ones. Hobby People has sure come up with a winner on this one. I love it.
I found this decal on the internet from a company in Ft Lauderdale. Pretty neat.
http://stores.ebay.com/M-C-GRAPHICS_...QQftidZ2QQtZkm
Jerry

wildswan

Anyone done an electric conversion on this?

Tommy_Gun

Wildswan,
In the AMA magazine issue that covered this plane, an electric version was shown. I don't know the details of what was used.

For those wondering about the engine out qualities, I have posted a video that shows how well the plane flies as long as you maintain
proper airspeed for single engine operation.

http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/50PHPXWWKSZV2W5K

Black Drape

T G

Cool videos! Nice save. I really enjoyed the videos, some of them made ma a little queesy.

I am probably not going to get started on mine till this winter, got a couple of other projects to finish first, and on top of that I managed to stick my hand in a prop last week and ended up with nine stiches. So that slowed the building up for another week. Hate it when that happens.

Ron

Tommy_Gun

Thanks BD,

Nine stitches!!? OUCH!
Heal fast.

Building planes is good therapy you know.

BTW, I now have 20 flights on my P-61.
The only thing I have a problem with is that the black hinge points supplies with the kit are wearing out at the hinge pins.
I am sure this is from the engine vibration.

I substituted in robart hinge points for my nose gear setup and have noticed they don't show the same amount of wear.
This could be due to the nose gear being somewhat isolated from the engine vibration as compared to the main gear.

Black Drape

T G

I get my stiches out this Friday. It was a new B USA Pheaton with a GMS 47 that bit me, wanted to see if it would run before I took it to the field. Wasn't supposed to take my splint off, but Sunday was so nice I had to fly. The meat eater flew very well so I guess I'll keep it.

I got the new replacement gear for my Widow, they just sent me two more nose gear units. One of the main gear struts fit and one didn't. I had to file on the stud for about an hour to get it to fit into the retract unit. I think they need a little quality control back there in China or where ever they come from. Did you use their air valve or did you use a Robart one. The one I have looks a little iffy.

Ron

Tommy_Gun

I used the Spring Air 102HD kit and it came with an air control valve that is the new design from Spring Air.

If you have any doubts, just replace the questionable valve.

Jgear

My Feedback: (3)

Can someone tell me what length the struts and size of the wheels are for this arf? The price is too good to pass up for the set, but no dimensions. Thanks.

Black Drape

Jgear

the struts are 7/16, the mains are 4 5/8 from the block to the center of the axel, and the nose is 5 inches from the block to the center of the axel. The nose wheel is 3 inch and the mains are 3 1/4. Hope this helps you.

Ron

Tommy_Gun

If you guys are interested,
I have been recording my flights with a camera onboard the P-61.

I'll give a link one to the videos, and if you wish click on the related button below the video pane and see the other videos I have recorded from this plane.

http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/QWZH5M3RJB2HVJNS

Jgear

My Feedback: (3)

Black Drape

Thanks...that does help alot....

Meekskin

Anyone need the ASM retracts for the P-61, let me know...I have a set used one time and in perfect condition....You will save some money if you buy these...let me know at [email protected]

Ken

clifford

HiToomy gun,
That"s a fantastic way you"ve donr the gear doors...
I"m currently building an 80" ME110.......90% sure going to be electric...but it"s from an "IC" power plan.....clubmate is going for one as well with two OS 52 surpasses....does this system of opening / closing doors seem reliable and hassle free for you??

Cliff[img][/img]

Tommy_Gun

Hi Clifford,

Yes, this system has been totally trouble free.
The only issue I have had is the loss of one of the main gear doors due to the supplied hinge coming apart from wear.
I now have 37 flights on this plane and the hinges supplied by ASM appear to be a black copy of a robart hinge point.
I had previously substituted actual robart hinge points on some of the doors during assembly and those are not showing any wear yet at all.
So the only advise I can offer is to use good quality hinges.

Meekskin

Selling a set of ASM retracts if anyone is interested let me know. Sell for 100.00 plus shipping..cost over 300.00 new and these are in perfect shape.

Tony Pacini

After much procrastination I finally dragged mine out of the box and have most of it together. As has been said in this tread, this is more of a case of detailed assembly than building. The plane literally falls together; it's the plumbing and retracts that present challenges.

I used the ASM retracts and struts then made my own actuators similar to Tommy Gun's (thanks for the photos, man! Ya saved me a lotta grief!). The retract valve seems to be fine but I've got a big leak at one of the supplied brass tees. Maybe I just jammed the line on there wrong. I'll sort that out later.

I also used YS .63s although I mounted them inverted (which required relocating and using smaller throttle servos). I'll be running 4-ounce hopper tanks in the booms then mounting 8-ounce tanks in the center fuselage. I moved the main gear retracts as far forward as possible (closer to the CG) and lost a lot of room for the tanks. I've found that everything I do in attempting to rectify one issue ends up causing another. It's no fault of the manufacturer, it's just that there's not a lot of room in a scale P-61! The way the booms are built (essentially hollow shells) leaves a lot more room than if they were built-up.

I totally dig this kit and would definitely build another one. I hope to have it flying within the next couple of weeks.

Tommy_Gun

Hey Tony,
Glad to hear you are assembling your P-61.
Let us know if you need any other assistance.

I now have about 54 flights on my Widow and it just keeps on getting better.

I fear you may be needlessly complicating your fuel system. I run an 11 oz Hayes tank in each nacelle and they are good for about 11 minutes of run time depending on my power settings. I could fit slightly larger tanks, I just don't feel the need at this time.
I do understand that the ASM retract kit cuts down on the room for your fuel tank. I wish they would redesign them to put the retract cylinder to the rear.

Not trying to preach, but after all this is a twin and there is no need to make things harder on yourself.

Good luck!