Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
#476
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Hi Kevin, I couldn't remember so I went out to the hanger to look. It appears that they taper from top and bottom. More so on the top. Here are a few photos to look at.
Have you had much snow. We had just a hint of snow in mid November. Today it's supposed to be 73 degrees, a little drizzle, and wind 20 - 30 mph. Don't think I will go to the field.
Have you had much snow. We had just a hint of snow in mid November. Today it's supposed to be 73 degrees, a little drizzle, and wind 20 - 30 mph. Don't think I will go to the field.
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Many thanks for the usual timely help.I had checked the photos you reposted and had arrived at the conclusion that the taper had to be on top and bottom,but what the heck Im not too proud to ask!
Interesting that the tip shape of the real plane looks different than the model and I assume this is due to the full size using a flat bottom airfoil and the model a semi sym...........
Got our first real snow dump in the last 24 hours and all the snow blowers are out this am cleaning driveways..........its -16o Metric which is bloody cold....-10o is a perfect X country ski day and 0o is freezing point...............VG building weather but the flying is done for the season except for skis and indoor...........
Interesting that the tip shape of the real plane looks different than the model and I assume this is due to the full size using a flat bottom airfoil and the model a semi sym...........
Got our first real snow dump in the last 24 hours and all the snow blowers are out this am cleaning driveways..........its -16o Metric which is bloody cold....-10o is a perfect X country ski day and 0o is freezing point...............VG building weather but the flying is done for the season except for skis and indoor...........
#478
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Kevin,
Here are a couple photos of full size Bückers, you can see the bottom taper;
P1 1961 Bücker Jungmann (N 2BU), Model C.A.S.A. 1.131
P2 1961 Bücker Jungmeister, (N 99434), Model C.A.S.A. 1.131E built by Construcciones Aeronauticas SA
Here are a couple photos of full size Bückers, you can see the bottom taper;
P1 1961 Bücker Jungmann (N 2BU), Model C.A.S.A. 1.131
P2 1961 Bücker Jungmeister, (N 99434), Model C.A.S.A. 1.131E built by Construcciones Aeronauticas SA
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
ORIGINAL: Big_Bird
Yes I have to agree on the tip but only the scale purist would notice. Here is a photo of John's Bucker and mine.
Yes I have to agree on the tip but only the scale purist would notice. Here is a photo of John's Bucker and mine.
#482
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Just a few comments on the wing tip. As Gary Allen designed the wing tip it is made of a piece of balsa with a ply cap strip around the outer edge. It is installed to line up with the peak of the leading and trailing edge. Since the wing is not fully symmetrical the balsa wing tip plate winds up a little below center of the wing. I'm not an expert on whether this is scale or not but it's the way Gary designed it. To make the tip come out any other way would require a different design.
After unrolling the plans it does show that the main spars need to be tapered down an equal amount, top and bottom, to fit the notches in W9. It looks like, on the full scale, that the wing tip tapers up more from the bottom. But if built by Gary's plans an end on view will look like the tip tapers a little more from the top. If one were to change this he could reshape W9 and slant the wing tip plate up a little. If I were to build a third one I would build it like I did the first two, by the plans.
After unrolling the plans it does show that the main spars need to be tapered down an equal amount, top and bottom, to fit the notches in W9. It looks like, on the full scale, that the wing tip tapers up more from the bottom. But if built by Gary's plans an end on view will look like the tip tapers a little more from the top. If one were to change this he could reshape W9 and slant the wing tip plate up a little. If I were to build a third one I would build it like I did the first two, by the plans.
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Kevin, just an note on the wings to maybe save you from some headache. If you havent already installed the ply mounting plates on the root ribs of the outboard panels, look very closely at the plans where they show to put them. I put the ply plates low on the rib and found it very clumsy until I realized the plates run straight across the root rib as one straight piece. I fumbled around with 2-3 pieces of ply on three of the wings before I got it right on #4. If this is confusing I will try and post a pic of what I did wrong and what I think I eventually did right. At least nobody will see it once its covered
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Guys,I could use your advice.I have the fuse skeleton completed and have chosen to install all electrical ,fuel ,servos etc now.My 5 servos are in front of F4 and golden rods out back.I have 6 volt battery pack & receiver under the pilot.I would like to use a Brison 6.4 twin(engine,bat.,mufflers,ign, switch)aprox 6 to 6.5 lbs up front.I have a sullivan smoke system to go in.should I install it behind the pilot or just in front ?Don't know if it will be too nose heavy if smoker is put up front.I have anything behind pilot except 3 push rods.
Bob
Bob
#485
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
ORIGINAL: Jennyboy
Guys,I could use your advice.I have the fuse skeleton completed and have chosen to install all electrical ,fuel ,servos etc now.My 5 servos are in front of F4 and golden rods out back.I have 6 volt battery pack & receiver under the pilot.I would like to use a Brison 6.4 twin(engine,bat.,mufflers,ign, switch)aprox 6 to 6.5 lbs up front.I have a sullivan smoke system to go in.should I install it behind the pilot or just in front ?Don't know if it will be too nose heavy if smoker is put up front.I have anything behind pilot except 3 push rods.
Bob
Guys,I could use your advice.I have the fuse skeleton completed and have chosen to install all electrical ,fuel ,servos etc now.My 5 servos are in front of F4 and golden rods out back.I have 6 volt battery pack & receiver under the pilot.I would like to use a Brison 6.4 twin(engine,bat.,mufflers,ign, switch)aprox 6 to 6.5 lbs up front.I have a sullivan smoke system to go in.should I install it behind the pilot or just in front ?Don't know if it will be too nose heavy if smoker is put up front.I have anything behind pilot except 3 push rods.
Bob
I'm having a hard time getting my head around using a Brison 6.4 in this plane. I have one in my Extra 300S but never thought of putting it in the Jungie. Besides, I don't think it will fit in the cowl. I would have the smoke system as far forward as possible. With that engine I think it is going to be very nose heavy no matter where you put the smoke system.
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
The engine you inted to install is more than twice the displacement of that used in the original which was a Zenoah 45cc,although it seems to be a unanimous opinion that this model needs a 60cc.
I think you will end up with an over weight over powered monster if you continue with your plans to use an engine that large.
It wont even come close to fitting within the cowl either BTW and you would have to carve holes for the heads and the mufflers...............
I think you will end up with an over weight over powered monster if you continue with your plans to use an engine that large.
It wont even come close to fitting within the cowl either BTW and you would have to carve holes for the heads and the mufflers...............
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Yes Rab if you could post photos of the root detail that would be a help........Im installing the spar gussets right now but I was begginning to wonder about how to handle this detail......
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
You guys are absolutely right . I just realized the G62 only weighs 4.5 lbs..I had my heart set on a gas twin. Don't think anyone makes one in that 60 cc category.
Bob
Bob
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Actually there are a number of really nice gas twins in the 45cc to 70cc range available.
I have a 44cc sold a while ago by RC Showcase which flys my 80" Lazy Ace with authority and I love flying this plane if for nothing else than to hear the twin!
RCS also currently sell two ROTO twins in this range one 50cc and the other 70cc I believe.
I have two ROTO 35cc singles going into a Ziroli twin Beech project and these are really nice engines .........smooth and easy starting and V quiet.I broke them both in flying a GP 1/3 Christen Eagle. Even these small twins would be a stretch fit in the Jungmeister cowl though since the opposed set up of most twins just naturally takes up a lot of space particularly in the muffler and plug lead areas.What we really all need is a medium sized four stroke gas radial for these scale projects............and I would be first in line to get one!(Yes I know RCS sell one,but its too big and I would have to mortage the house and sell my eldest child to pay for one)
I have a 44cc sold a while ago by RC Showcase which flys my 80" Lazy Ace with authority and I love flying this plane if for nothing else than to hear the twin!
RCS also currently sell two ROTO twins in this range one 50cc and the other 70cc I believe.
I have two ROTO 35cc singles going into a Ziroli twin Beech project and these are really nice engines .........smooth and easy starting and V quiet.I broke them both in flying a GP 1/3 Christen Eagle. Even these small twins would be a stretch fit in the Jungmeister cowl though since the opposed set up of most twins just naturally takes up a lot of space particularly in the muffler and plug lead areas.What we really all need is a medium sized four stroke gas radial for these scale projects............and I would be first in line to get one!(Yes I know RCS sell one,but its too big and I would have to mortage the house and sell my eldest child to pay for one)
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Kevin, I will get some pics of that root rib up soon, have to fix some leaky plumbing tonight but should be back in the shop by thurs. I am rigging the wings at this point so we can bumble through this together. Still trying to figure out where in my house I am going to do this. Wife may have to give up our huge kitchen table for a few days
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
I keep eyeballing this twin. 3W56 twin 10.94 inches across with caps. There are some Chinese like the one pictured. 48cc 10" across 4 pounds $499. Big sacrifice in power for a twin in this range. The Saito 300 would a consideration. I have an older 3W70B2 I love but my G62 out pulls it. Hard range to fill with a twin that won't overfill a round cowl.
http://www.aircraftinternational.com/ has the 3W-56iB2 $945
Cylinder Capacity 3.48 cu.in 57.00 ccm
Power Rating 5.5 HP 4.0 kW
Bore Diameter 1.42 in 36 mm
Stroke 1.14 in 28 mm
Weight 4.10 lbs 1850 g
Speed Range 1500-8000 RPM
Crankshaft 3 Ball bearings
Connecting Rod Needle bearings on both ends
Oil / Gasoline Ratio 1:50 - 1:80 Mix
Ignition Input Voltage: 6.0 to 8.0 V
6.0 V NiCD / NiMH or 7.2 V LiPo / Li Ion
Propeller 2-Bladed
20 x 12
22 x 10 3-Bladed
19 x 12
20 x 10
21 x 10
http://www.aircraftinternational.com/ has the 3W-56iB2 $945
Cylinder Capacity 3.48 cu.in 57.00 ccm
Power Rating 5.5 HP 4.0 kW
Bore Diameter 1.42 in 36 mm
Stroke 1.14 in 28 mm
Weight 4.10 lbs 1850 g
Speed Range 1500-8000 RPM
Crankshaft 3 Ball bearings
Connecting Rod Needle bearings on both ends
Oil / Gasoline Ratio 1:50 - 1:80 Mix
Ignition Input Voltage: 6.0 to 8.0 V
6.0 V NiCD / NiMH or 7.2 V LiPo / Li Ion
Propeller 2-Bladed
20 x 12
22 x 10 3-Bladed
19 x 12
20 x 10
21 x 10
#492
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
That RCS 150 Kevin referred to almost fits the jungie as far as dimensions go. Its a tad too long and would require a recessing of the firewall. That would be the easy part. Dealing with 30+ pounds of thrust and balancing makes it unrealistic to do. But I have given serious consideration to selling all of my current flying models to buy this engine and scale up Gary's plan set to say 35-40% scale. That would be a gem of a model. When I am done with the Jungie I plan to build his 30% Tmoth. Maybe do the grown-up Bucker with the 150 after that. Only have one model to maintain then.
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Has anyone heard of Aviomac from Italy? Their profile looks impressive.They make a 77cc boxer style twin that would fit It's 8 7/8" from top of cyl. heads..I have found only good comments from the few owners out their.Hobby Club is the dealer. At 7" long & 5.17 lbs. it weighs less than the Sach Dolmer 70cc @5.525 lbs less muffler.What do you think boys ? Arizona is using the Fugi 64EI.
Bob
Bob
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
The ID of The wood version of the cowl on the plans for the Jungmeister tapers from 9.25" at the front to 10.25" at the rear.The problem with fitting twins in it is not the head to head measurement but rather the plug lead to plug lead measurement which can easily add another two inches to
the overall width.My 44cc twin measures 8" head to head but will not fit in the cowl after taking the plugs and leads into account.
Matter of fact I had to do some minor surgery on the bottom of the cowl to fit my ZDZ 60cc single and had a very special muffler custom made by the Bissons to avoid problems of holes in the cowl to accomodate it.As it is the head of the ZDZ protrudes through the bottom of the cowl but is not very noticable since it protrudes between two of the valve blisters.If this bothers me when the plane is finished and flown I will make a blister to cover the area or build a new cowl and cheat slightly on the ID to better accomodate my ZDZ.This was one of the reasons I decided to make the jigs and molds to produce do my own cowl and valve blisters in the first place.
I guess most of us who would build this 1/3 Bucker would want to keep it as scale as possible and avoid carving holes in that distinctive cowl for the engine or exhaust.The Pitts for example with its fat nose can accomodate just about any engine you wish but then the Pitts has been done to death.Like the man said........"youse pays yer money and youse makes your choice!
the overall width.My 44cc twin measures 8" head to head but will not fit in the cowl after taking the plugs and leads into account.
Matter of fact I had to do some minor surgery on the bottom of the cowl to fit my ZDZ 60cc single and had a very special muffler custom made by the Bissons to avoid problems of holes in the cowl to accomodate it.As it is the head of the ZDZ protrudes through the bottom of the cowl but is not very noticable since it protrudes between two of the valve blisters.If this bothers me when the plane is finished and flown I will make a blister to cover the area or build a new cowl and cheat slightly on the ID to better accomodate my ZDZ.This was one of the reasons I decided to make the jigs and molds to produce do my own cowl and valve blisters in the first place.
I guess most of us who would build this 1/3 Bucker would want to keep it as scale as possible and avoid carving holes in that distinctive cowl for the engine or exhaust.The Pitts for example with its fat nose can accomodate just about any engine you wish but then the Pitts has been done to death.Like the man said........"youse pays yer money and youse makes your choice!
#495
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
ORIGINAL: Jennyboy
Has anyone heard of Aviomac from Italy? Their profile looks impressive.They make a 77cc boxer style twin that would fit It's 8 7/8" from top of cyl. heads..I have found only good comments from the few owners out their.Hobby Club is the dealer. At 7" long & 5.17 lbs. it weighs less than the Sach Dolmer 70cc @5.525 lbs less muffler.What do you think boys ? Arizona is using the Fugi 64EI.
Bob
Has anyone heard of Aviomac from Italy? Their profile looks impressive.They make a 77cc boxer style twin that would fit It's 8 7/8" from top of cyl. heads..I have found only good comments from the few owners out their.Hobby Club is the dealer. At 7" long & 5.17 lbs. it weighs less than the Sach Dolmer 70cc @5.525 lbs less muffler.What do you think boys ? Arizona is using the Fugi 64EI.
Bob
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
The fibreglass cowl Arizona sold to me with the short kit is probably not to scale. It measures 10 3/4" across at the cylinder head location and 11 1/2" if one needs to take a blister. I found one member of RC Universe who owns and has run a larger Aviomac twin for 3 years with happy results. Waiting for email from Hobbyclub on spark plug boot measurement.
Bob
Bob
#497
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Ok, finished fabricating the brass fittings for the interplanes and wing attatchment points last night. I think I had a pound of brass filings on my bench but they came out nice so I am happy. Three evenings of cutting, filing, and sanding was enough. Went to start building the interplanes and realized that I had purchased 1/2" streamlined tubing when I needed 5/8ths. LHS is closing down so I had to order from a not so LHS and will pick them up this weekend. Meanwhile I designed a temporary rigging table in the shop to set up the wings. I will be doing alot of crawling under the table over the next week.
I started disassembling the fuse to prepare for the rigging part and found that my inflatable DuBro big wheels developed one hell of a flat spot sitting all summer long. Looks like I will change out the wheels to the solid foam core DuBros which requires that I redo the wheel fenders brackets. What a PIA. I am itching to get this thing covered and detailed.
Kevin, I will post a pic of that root rib area on my club website as I still have been too lazy to set up a photo program in my computer to put pics on this site. Have a good holiday all, Roger.
I started disassembling the fuse to prepare for the rigging part and found that my inflatable DuBro big wheels developed one hell of a flat spot sitting all summer long. Looks like I will change out the wheels to the solid foam core DuBros which requires that I redo the wheel fenders brackets. What a PIA. I am itching to get this thing covered and detailed.
Kevin, I will post a pic of that root rib area on my club website as I still have been too lazy to set up a photo program in my computer to put pics on this site. Have a good holiday all, Roger.
#498
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Roger, sounds like you are making really good progress. I sure know what you mean about crawling under the table. I did a lot of that with the Jungie. I will be doing a lot of that again a little later with the 90" ws Waco that I am building. My hobby barn is only 12' x 16'.
Do you not have a way to simply download digital photos to your computer? I use two really good photo editing programs which allows you to resize photos, etc. I'll be back in a minute with the links.
I'm back. Here are the links:
http://www.irfanview.net
http://www.faststone.org/FSViewerDetail.htm
I use Irfanview the most for quick down sizing. Faststone is great for batch converting.
Do you not have a way to simply download digital photos to your computer? I use two really good photo editing programs which allows you to resize photos, etc. I'll be back in a minute with the links.
I'm back. Here are the links:
http://www.irfanview.net
http://www.faststone.org/FSViewerDetail.htm
I use Irfanview the most for quick down sizing. Faststone is great for batch converting.
#499
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
Ken, thanks for the links. I promise I will do my best to sit down at the computer tonight and get one of these to work so I can put up some pics. You know that one part of every model build you dread? Well for me on the Bucker it is the wing rigging step. Once I get this accomplished I will breath easy cause the rest is cake and candy.
#500
RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister
ORIGINAL: rabacon
Ken, thanks for the links. I promise I will do my best to sit down at the computer tonight and get one of these to work so I can put up some pics. You know that one part of every model build you dread? Well for me on the Bucker it is the wing rigging step. Once I get this accomplished I will breath easy cause the rest is cake and candy.
Ken, thanks for the links. I promise I will do my best to sit down at the computer tonight and get one of these to work so I can put up some pics. You know that one part of every model build you dread? Well for me on the Bucker it is the wing rigging step. Once I get this accomplished I will breath easy cause the rest is cake and candy.
You may have another method which will work just fine. I wish I had made photos of this operation when I was building the Jungie. I did when I was building the Waco. Here they are.