summerwind

then i sure hope my 6EX never shoots anyone down........[]

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for that tip DW. I just got the module for my 14mz and have not even installed it yet.. I'll remember to try that out.

So there is NO confusion, the Futaba 2.4 Tx module will operate ANY 2.4 Futaba Rx that it's bound to...period, regardless of how many Rx's that may be. This is a different approach from the Spectrum stuff; maybe good and maybe not. But its the same method we have flown on for these many years, nothing really new in that regard for the Futaba equip.

rmh

Here is a question which I ask -only to get a better understanding of the FASST system
IF you bind a module to a rx ---then shift THAT module to another tx -- SHOULD, (working as intended) the the "bind" still be in effect?
OR does changing the TX, require a re link?
Tho I don't fly FASST --some friends do and we are always swapping info .
just a question.

Androgeny

The problem is how many of ZGUID users are in ignorant bliss right now. While there are few reported "shoot downs" there may be hundreds of accidents waiting to happen. A person at a field with a ZGUID system is fine at a field with dozens of FASST users who do not have a ZGUID system. Just let one of those who are fine mysteriously join the ZGUID world and now that field has a problem. The new ZGUID person will be standing there fussing with his system wondering what is wrong, and why he cannot control his plane, and in efforts to figure it out is actually transmitting. The other long term ZGUID person who may also happen to be there, will inherit a big problem. Thus, it seems to me that the number of people who have had problems is not the issue. It is not known how many ZGUID systems exist now, or will exist in the months before there is a solution. It is just luck that those systems have not been in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is not a sign that there are "few" problems out there. It just gets statistically more and more likely over time. The time has been about one year now. In the beginning, probably the first month someone was ZGUID and did not know it. Over time, there were two, and over even more tme, those two ended up at the same place at the same time. Every month, this will compound. It is not how many people who have read this thread and understand it, it is how many people who have not. There is no way I can get comfort in this situation. No it is not the end of the world, and no the sky is not falling. But, this is a hobby. It is supposed to be fun and a way to relax. Now there is a problem to worry about, and the problem will remain a problem until Futbaba has a permanent fix or until I migrate to another system. It takes some of the fun out, and puts some worry in. If nothing else, now I have to remember to check back in, week after week to keep on top of what is going on. At some point I may have to package all my Futaba stuff up, take it to U.P.S. ship it off and wait for days, weeks or more to get my hobby back. No fun in that, it is a pain ahead of me. I paid more money for Futaba, and chose Futaba out of trust. "We get it right the first time" rings in my head. Now thousands of us have to worry about all this, and now we are all in the dark while Futaba figures out their strategy. This is not that complicated. Futaba could easily make a commitment now. Without having a specific solution in mind, they can easily say 1) We guarantee we will have a permanent fix for every single unit. 2) We anticipate we can start to do this in two or three months and watch our website for daily or weekly status reports and 3) It will be at no expense and under warranty for you our valued customer. I have asked Bax in this forum, the product manager to make this commitment, and he won't. Above him is someone I cannot communicate with. Thus, Futaba just makes a bad situation worse by what I consider to be just arrogance. I actually am growing tired of returning to this forum for "news", but I have to just try and figure out what comes next. Every time I come here to just see if Futaba has said something, it makes me more aggravated. I bought all my systems from TowerHobby, and do not know if I can go to my local hobby shop and have them support equipment I did not buy from them. Towerhobbies is owned by Hobbico the sole USA distributor for Futaba, and none of the three of them have said one word about where you go to get your system checked if you bought from Tower. I went to my LHS anyway this weekend to see if they could check my systems, and they have no clue what I was talking about, and had not been contacted by Futaba about anything. Again, I resent the time I have to spend dealing with this by stopping by my LHS for information, and if they get information somehow getting them to service a product they did not sell, and then having to check here over, and over and over so I can finally learn what to do. All of us have better things to do with our time, and Futaba is wasting our time. I am asking for a clear communication path back from Futaba that is regular, reliable, and relavant, so I can then not read twenty posts every day to see if there is any word. I will be back here in a couple of days, and will probably just get more pissed off. Sorry about that, but I just cannot keep quiet about this fiasco.

Zombie

Unfortunately, it appears that all units sold may be problem units - at least the FASST 6EX, 7C, and TM-7. And while the Futaba apologists like to poo-pa the issue by pointing out the few problems we've heard of so far, the numbers of ZGIUD units is on the climb. Consequently, negative incidents with the systems will possibly climb also.

Why?

Because the R/C forums presence is but a portion of the R/C world. Many R/C fliers don't visit the forums - and have little or no contact with people who do. There are bound to be incidents with this equipment that we don't hear of (so we can't add to the count). Some users, possibly many users, of the systems in question will not hear of the ZGUID issue, or how to watch for it, until it is possibly too late.

Early reports on Hobby store testing show some stores are not aware of the issue - or have a lackadaisical attitude towards the matter. Are such Hobby stores going to track down the buyers of effected systems and give them the service advisory from Futaba, or tell the buyers how to test and fly with caution? Is Tower, who ships world-wide, going to contact all their buyers and let them know? Seems unlikely, especially since these units are still for sale - at least in the U.S, and at Tower.

Is the sky falling? Of course not! However, is the matter serious with potential to cause bodily harm and injury? Yes.

A more aggressive approach from Futaba, to inform all owners of effected units and provide a permanent fix would most likely help in avoiding, or limiting, any serious incidents.

1bwana1

Apparently, despite the service bulletin, another model was shot down by this problem today.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...798002&page=32

d_wheel

Yes, you can bind as many receivers to a transmitter as you desire and they will all work simultaneously regardless of which model you have selected (if they are of the same type of course). Model match would be nice. I sincerely hope Futaba adds this feature in the future.

Later;

D.W.

d_wheel

Haven't tried with FASST, but my Spektrum module works that way when switched between a 14mz and 12fg. No rebinding required.

Later;

D.W.

d_wheel

That's why it behooves all of us, FASST users AND non users, to educate everyone at the flying field we see using the system. Just do it in a non confrontational manner. Everyone should get the word in a very short time if we do. Personally, if I saw someone with a 6EX and didn't at least ask them about it, I would feel awful guilty if it resulted in a crash.

Later;

D.W.

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Dick I have no idea. I would suspect though that that's the case as the GUID is in the Tx module..

rmh

It makes sense that it would --
Only- there are possible problems resulting form "operator error" .
Having seen too many operator errors from switching models with the good ol 72/50/53/ etc., I really expected all the 2.4 setups would adopt a "model Match" type feature . Something ,some alert when a model in the tx is changed
On my radios over the years -- the mfg has included a warning "peep" if I left a flap switch on --for example .

Such a thing as a momentarily flashing and beep of the model NAME each time the radio turned on would perhaps save someone from a disaster .
It is far too easy to be lulled into not remembering which model is hooking up.
It sure does not sound like an impossible upgrade on any radio.

Julez

There is no way to incorporate a model match feature in a PPM based system.
The module only gets the control functions as data, and has no way to determine which model was selected.
Furthermore, Fasst is a one- way system.
I always do rudder checks every single time I switch on a model. I had a wrong model selectet once though. But all I had to worry about was that the elevator throw was a little low. This is because, lazy as I am, I only set up a flying wing once in my TX, and copy this model every time I get a new one. So, apart from some differnet throws, everything was identical. Took me 30min of flying until I figured it out
Nevertheless, model match is a good feature.

I remember having read that ZGUID RXes link up very fast. People concluded that the hopping secuence is somehow connected with the GUID. When it is all zero, no hopping takes place. Thil leads to an exceptionally fast connect of the RX.
Normally, in a clean environment, it takes 0.9s for the LED to become green, when power is connected to the RX. If your RX links faster, like...instantly, there might be a problem.
If this behaviour can be confirmed, finally every fasst user would be able to test his equipment without external help or tools.

rmh

..

Flying Geezer

My Feedback: (14)

SELL, Dick, SELL!!

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

Just had the full-throttle after flip experience yesterday, when I tried to run dry the fuel from DA50. The radio is 72Mhz equipment and a bad crystal-filter in the receiver is under suspection (no crash before). The radio/receiver worked perfectly 10 minutes ago before the incident.

Luckly the plane was under restrain and the full RPM run only lasted about 10 seconds. It was scary.


To visually confirm the throttle position on the carb probably is the best way to prevent it from happening.

heywood

Well, my heart was set on the Futaba 6EX 2.4 system from Tower. Now I'm so confused, I don't know which way to which way to go. Another problem for a returning flyer!

I called the hobby shop nearest me, a testing station about 45 miles, and when I asked about the problems with the 6EX, he said he hadn't heard of any problems! I will call the other test station and see what he has to say about it.

Any suggestions for a good, dependable radio? I would like to get Futaba 6EX but.......have the newer ones been corrected? Believe me, I would appreciate any help in making this decision..[]


Heywood

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

vince, izatt you dude?

fiorelli

I'm FASSTly wishing I had not bought one. Yes I'm sure it'll all get straightened out,but for now it's one more headache.I agree with Andrgeny.Befor It was clear what channel everyone was on,heck if you fly with a small group you knew what channle there on just by seeing who's flying.Sound like now don't dare turn a Tx until all other FASST user are down and had a brief meeting and cross control check.Well the plane I'm building is about two weeks from it's madien flight, maybe it'll all be good by then.

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

My bud flew all last summer before we "knew" there was a problem.. Turns out he never had one.. not once. I would check my stuff and then go fly and don't over worry. We all know what we, the fliers, are the BIGGEST cause of crashes, bar none! Take comfort in that!

GalenB

My Feedback: (18)

It depends upon the module used. The TM-7 will not require a re-link after a tx swap because the GUID is in the module. For the TM-14 a relink will be required because the GUID is in the tx. All 12FG, 12z and 14MZ txs required a firmware update to support the TM-14. After the update the tx sees the module natively, not via PPM, and can be completly controlled via the tx. So settings like FASST 7 and FASST MULT are controlled by the transmitter and not by a switch on the module.

JCINTEXAS

It's time for practical solutions to end the fears and worries about the Futaba 2.4GHz FASST Radios. It's time for those of us who own and fly these radios to take some common-sense steps to help ourselves. The majority of us are members of R/C Clubs, or at least we fly at shared flying fields with other R/C pilots. So frequency control and checking frequencies has long been a common and necessary practice. Here is a simple and workable procedure for eliminating possible harmful radio interference.

R/C Clubs (and less formal R/C groups) should set some times for all members who have a Futaba FASST Radio to bring these to a specified location, such as the flying field or a club meeting. Then with all planes safely on the ground and engines not running, have the members turn-on their FASST radios one at a time. The first two turn-on and they check for any interference. Then the 3rd person turns-on and the check is repeated. Then a 4th person turns-on and the check for interference repeated....and so on, until everyone has their radio turned-on. This test will reveal if there is a problem with any of the radios. Any radios affected by interference should be returned to the Futaba Service Center for testing and repair.

Whenever anyone brings a new FASST radio to the flying field, it should first be tested with the other FASST radios at the field, with everyone safely on the ground. It's a quick and easy test and it should be standard procedure.

FASST FLYERS need to work together. With cooperation and reasonable precaution, we can all fly safely and eliminate the concerns and worries about FASST Radios.

Best Regards
JC
I fly twice as FASST

Dick T.

My Feedback: (243)

Actually JCINTEXAS you have proposed an excellent solution for calming the handwringing and bogeyman, pants peeing going on here. Sadly most will find it just too simple to actually work.

As stated, with 72mhz, we have been operating under a set of long standing rules and courteous interaction with other folks at the field to insure minimal interference and shoot downs. Along comes 2.4ghz and to many, out goes the any need to communicate with the less fortunate Bozo’s still using 72mhz.

How many time have you overheard at the field or the club house, “I just bought a 2.4 so I don’t have to coordinate with the rest of you guys….I can turn on and fly anytime I want!�

A proposal presented at one of our club meetings to have 2.4ghz transmitter pins to identify other 2.4 flyers at the field was boo’ed right off the floor. Think they , and other clubs, might reconsider now?

Another issue to having 2.4 pins can serve as a reminder for guys using 2.4 changeable modules. A local flew his PCM one day, brought his 2.4 airplane the next. Turned on and was mystified that the airplane didn’t respond. Took the group huddled around about five minutes to discover the 72mhz module was still in the transmitter. Fortunately no other 72’s were up.

So, again, your common sense reminder will be heeded by most, forgotten by some and ignored by the stupid.

If there is a genuine (rather than emotional) issue with Futaba’s FASST systems, they will offer a solution. It probably will not satisfy the biggest complainers here because their foot is already in their mouth too far to remove.

Meanwhile, continue to be operationally vigilant at the field, go fly and have fun.

Silent-AV8R

Our club requires 2.4 pilots to grab a pin as well. This is so we can verify that you are a current member since you pin up using your membership card.

bruce88123

Spektrum calls that "Model Match" and Futaba doesn't have that feature. Pilot is required to THINK about what he is doing and exercise a bit of care. I have no problem with that.

JCINTEXAS

This could be a quick and effective solution.

A Method To Find ZGUID FASST Transmitters:
Hobby Shops and R/C Clubs should keep a FASST receiver which has never been bound to any transmitter. R/C pilots who now have FASST radios, should then test their FASST transmitters to see if their transmitter(s) will control this unbound receiver.
Clubs should keep a ZGUID Rx available at the field (or other place) then FASST Fliers can test WHENEVER they feel the need or when an untested unit shows up.
Any ZGUID transmitters found should be returned to the Futaba Service Center.

Best Regards
JC

I fly twice as FASST