aminiet

Hi youalls
I am going through a writer's / builders cramp since last November when I started working on my taxes.
May be that's why I got the blues.
But I take a peek in here on a daily basis, otherwise I will be spending days to catch p with the reading.

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

Is it ok to use lite ply for the formers?
I'd still use 1/4" birch ply for the firewall.

skylarkmk1

sscherin,

Yes it is ok, but watch your weight, the formers on the plans are balsa (except where noted). Bill (stickbuilder) tried to put his Waco on the "holey diet" and was able to save some weight. Depending on the engine, you will probably need nose weight. Ken H (khodges) reports that the G-26 gasser is just about perfect in weight and power with just a bit of the muffler and plug wire showing. The 160 twin does fit completely in the cowl and Bill says it is just right on power.

Stickbuilder

Light ply will work for the formers back to the trailing edge of the wing, but you should use balsa from there back with the exception of F-14B. That should be the mount for the tailwheel, and should be from 1/4" ply.

If you are going to run something in the vicinity of a 26 cc or larger engine, then use at least 5/16" aircraft ply for the firewall, and 3/8" would be even better. 1/4" is just a tad flimsy for anything that will be swinging an 18" prop. The O.S. FT-160 is indeed the best engine for smoothness and scale sound, but I'm running a G-26 on the one that I am building. Looking forward to some cheap flying, If there is such a thing. With all the modifications I have not a clue how much I'm going to have in this one.

Dick Watz sent me some corrugation material that really looks promising. It is available in the correct shape and size, it is from: Evergreen Scale Models in Woodinville, WA 98072. Sorry they don't list a website on the package. 100" of the stuff costs $1.79. They are a specialty shop that is dedicated to the architectural world, and these styrene strips are very light, and the cross section is great too. The only down side is that they will have to be glued on individually.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Kim (and John), the 1/64 ply would be a good alternative. A while back I did a comparison of several sheeting materials by cutting a 2"x2" piece (4 sq. inches) of several thicknesses of balsa, lite ply, hobby ply, and even lithoplate and aluminum flashing. I used a digital powder scale with an accuracy of 0.01 Grains (15.43 grains to a gram). Now, consider that different grades of balsa will weigh differently per area/volume, the sample of 1/16 balsa I had weighed 1.01 grams; the 1/64 hobby ply weighed 0.96 grams, so it would be better for weight, and should prove better also in puncture resistance. If applied with the main grain spanwise it should prove fairly stiff with the rib support. The one downside I can immediately think of with the 1/64 ply is that it doesn't conform to more than very slight compund curves well without buckling. I discovered this while I was using it for the panels on my UMF.

I even took samples and did a single layer fiberglassing using Z-Poxy resin and 0.75 oz cloth. 1/64 ply with a fiberglass layer weighs 1.33 grams per 4 sq. inch area, and the stiffness is more than doubled. 1/16 balsa with a fiberglassed layer weighed 1.54 grams per 4 sq. inch area. Kim, I know you're more familiar with metric probably, that's 10.85 sq. cm.

Bill-- I have some of that Evergreen styrene, it will work fine, but as you said, each strip has to be individually applied.

www.hobbylinc.com

They have both the Evergreen and Plastruct, full line of sheet, strip, angles, etc. The main difference between the two is that Plastruct is ABS mostly, and Evergreen is styrene. For our purposes, either works well.

kvlasblom

John and Ken,

Thanks for your help on this, I appreciate it.
I'll have a look if I can obtain that thickness of ply here. (I have for example not been able to find maple and spruce here).
I have also never used the glassing technique before, but it now seems that that may be a viable option for this model.
I'm quite excited about it all and keen to continue building!

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Bill and John.. I didn't even notice that the rear formers were balsa until you mentioned it.

Anyway I've been looking over the pans and I was thinking it might be possible to build a motor box instead of beefing up the F-4 former..
The box would go from F-4 to F6 replacing the tank Box and maple rails.
It would require centering the box on the thrust line and making new templates for F-4B F-5B and F-6B

The plus side is it would tie the first 3 formers together like the maple rails did and the box length could be adjusted to suit assorted motors.
Since we are making new formers anyway it won't be hard to size the box to fit commonly available tanks too.

Down side.. The access hole in F-6B might have to get a little smaller.

I'll try and draw something up and post it when I get a chance.

Stickbuilder

Take a look at the revisions in the 13 page manual. I opened the tank box on the one that I am building by about 1" in all directions, and made a tail loader out of it. It is dirt simple to do, since you won't be using the maple engine bearers. I did make a removable plate to access the rear of the tank box, and it bolts into place. I think that there are some pictures in here somewhere that show it. As far as making any kind of an engine box, you won't have room for one. Using the gassers, or the OS 160 twin require a recessed firewall, and then some standoffs to put the engine back where you want it. The recess is needed to be able to clear some of the linkages, as well as the muffler.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

Well what I was thinking was a box that would go from F-4B to F6B, not extending past F-4B like you see on the big aerobatic planes.. It would end flush with F-4B..
Now The Firewall could be recessed back into the box and tabbed or pined to really lock it in place.
This way I could even go with rear carb gas motors like the SV 26cc and place the firewall back behind the F-4B former.

I'll try and draw up the parts and build the box with F-4 F-5 and F-6 to see how it all would go together.

skylarkmk1

sscherin

You are correct about the Kinko's pricing of about $35 to print the plans ( a little more for the 1/5th scale). The last time I used Kinko's, it was $0.75 per sq ft. or about $15.75 per 3' x 7' sheet (about the size of the wing plan). For the 1/5th size, save your self the time and effort of enlarging each template separately (checking both height and width) and order the plans from the AMA (#35406, make sure to ask for the template sheets) and have it delivered to you door for about $53 (at last check). The templates on the House of Moy site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ do not print out accurately with out some work (for some reason, the DXF files won't open).

I thought about the motor box as well and discarded it for many of the same reasons. I agree it would tie everything together, could be adjustable for engine/cowl spacing, but Bill's method is simpler. See the start of the fuselage assembly in the Revised Short Manual (17 page) for part to modify and page 64, post 1594 for a picture of Bill’s F-7B mod for a rear loading tank.

snowball

As you can see I have copied the sprung tailwheel assembly from the great info on this thread.I was wondering if the tail wheel fairing was a matter of personal preference ? I have been searching for finished models and looking at full size aircraft pictures to see where the fairing is used.Most pictures do not give a clear view of the tail wheel.

skylarkmk1

snowball,

Here a a couple of the tail wheel and fairing on YMF Classic NC 14081. As you can see, this plane does have a tow release on it and the fairing incorporates this feature. Make sure you leave enough clearence for the spring to work. The full size tail wheel swings up in an arc with a little backwards back motion instead of just up like yours.

P3 is a shot of the full size assembly on a YKS.
P4 is a UPF-7 NC 173E without a fairing
P5 is a UPF-7 NC 22927 with a small fairing
P6 is a UBF-2 NC 2091K with soft, leather fairing

r/c John

My Feedback: (2)

Hey guys:

Maybe instead of Kinkos you may want to rey Staples, I went to Kinkos to have a set of plans enlarged 500 per cent they wanted 0ver 20 bucks, got it done in staples for seven bucks, and Staples can copy some pretty big stuff

skylarkmk1

r/c John,

Neither Staples or Office Max in my area were able to handle 36" wide prints, only Kinko's. The private copy service nearby charges more and can't enlarge large format plans or print from file yet

sscherin

My Feedback: (1)

Skylark..

I've gone over the revised manuals a bit and looked at most of the mods..
I do agree that it's the easy way to go.. I may still pay around with the box idea a little just for fun.

last night I got the idea for a box from F-4 to F9 to integrate the F21 wing saddles.
Build it from 1/8 lite ply with windows to knock out the weight and double up to 1/4" from F-4 to F6
That should tie everything from the firewall to the wing bolt block together.
With that I don't think the hardwood stringers would be necessary. No splicing.. Just balsa from tip to tail.
I was looking at pics of Khodges ARF on Page 66 post 1627 and thats just about how they built it.
It looks like it'll mess with the slots for F19 in F4 and F6.. It may take some minor changes to F19 and the slots to get around that..
It's just an Idea I had.. I don't know if I'll go with it yet..

As for the DXF files..

I downloaded the Wing and Fuse Zip files from House of Moy
I can open every file using DWG True View from Autodesk.. It's a free download.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...&siteID=123112
Scale wise the DXF's look right on..
I can print those at home on my Oki Laser Printer.. I've used it before and it prints to scale.
Some of the larger formers I can print at work on the 24" plotter.

Jim Henley

It has been a while since I posted anything so here goes, Took these today, after I built a PVC stand to haul the WACO around with, and a separate carrier for the wings. Hope it will keep the hanger rash to a minimum. The other thing, the WACO is finished (again) just waiting for some decent weather and one of the senior members in the club to go over the plane before I try to fly it again, AND to be there just in case I get in trouble landing it (again).
Will keep you-all updated.

Jacque

My Feedback: (22)

Jim your plane really looks good. Good luck

Jacque brotherhood 27

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

That is exactly the way the ARF is built, but the box continues to the tail. It begins to taper aft of the lower wing T.E. and has rounded fillers to shape the fuse with balsa longerons. It's a very rigid structure both in flexion and torsion. I imagine it was changed from the original to make it an easier structure to jig build on an assembly line. I still reinforced it, mainly in the area of the L.G. blocks and lower wing area.

RICKSTUBBZ

Jim,
She looks as good as new (better with the new landing gear). Good Luck with flight.
Flying season is "here" in south east Texas.

Jim Henley

Thanks Rick, I am looking forward to getting her back in the air! Hopefully our flying season is not too much farther off.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

That looks mighty fine, Jim. Hope the "new" maiden goes well. It's getting about time to dust mine off and take her out for the first flight of the season.

I got an e-mail yesterday from someone I'm not sure if I know (e-mail address not familiar), wanting to know if I'd sell my WACO. That was it; no preamble, no "I'm so-and-so from wherever", just "Would you sell your WACO?" I returned the message with "What's it worth to you" and he came back with "send some pictures". Why would someone want to buy a plane if they'd never seen it?

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, anything is for sale if the price can be met. I made him an outrageous price, we'll see what happens. Maybe I'll build a 1/4 scale if he buys it.

Jim Henley

Ken, that does souond odd, not to mention the cost to crate and ship the thing. How is the other build coming? I have not checked iin there in a couple of days.
Thanks for the kind words, and yes let's hope this "Maiden" goes better than the last one

Stickbuilder

Jim,

I'll have to say that yours came out really nice. I kinda like that paint scheme too . Wonder where I've seen one kinda like it before?

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

WacoNut

Hi Guys,
Thought I would show you a pic of my finished tail wheel on my Waco.
Anthony

WacoNut

John,
I know I saw it here somewhere before but can you tell me how wide the headrest is at the base at the back of the cockpit. It appears to be approx 12" from what I can tell from the pics.
Thanks!!
Anthony