tpita

It was one of the most informative responses in this thread. Thanks a lot! Now I'm off to look for the resources you referenced.

JettPilot

My Feedback: (6)

People like Nikolay are a terrorists best friend. When you get people that want to start labeling others as "terrorists" just because they do someting they dont like, then you start labeling large numbers of normal people as " Terroists" and take the resources of law enforcement away from the REAL terrorists. Im sure that every extremeist out there will be very happy that the police and the government are out there trying to catch innocent civilians instead of them as they plan their next act.

So how far do you take this Nikolay ? Do you call anyone that speeds as a Land-Hooligan and label them as a terrorist also ? After all, if you are honest, hundreds of people are killed in cars every day... People in cars have a much greater chance of killing you than an RC plane, so do you label every one that drives badly as a " Terroist " and put them under the Terroists Act ??? But even though driving is more dangerous, I bet that it is just not new and exciting enough to get NikolayTT's interest.

You are just an emotional guy that gets all worked up by something that is new and scarey to you, while you dont have the intelligence to see what is a REAL threat and what is not. To make it worse, you would start using the resources of anti terrorisim to go after anyone you dont like, which makes it much easier for the real terrorists that would do real harm succeed, because law enforcement is busy harassing university students, and researchers that fly video planes. Real smart NickolayTT.

JettPilot

wjglynn

Hey JettPilot, we haven't even gotten into the fact that you are also a video-hooligan too. Putting perfectly good video equipment in peril. The shame, the shame!

lvspark

You could contact with your questions:
Estonian Civil Aviation Administration
Mr Kaskel Koit email [email protected]
or
Estonian Air Navigation Services
Mr Tamm Jaan email [email protected]

They are/were part of the Eurocontrol UAV crew

patrickegan

Nikolay, (or anyone else)

Are you going to www.UAS2008.org ?

NikolayTT

Patrick,

Good that you mentioned the meeting. It was better to go there several years
ago but nowadays it seems to be more on regluatory issues and less on the
technology (link to http://www.uas2008.org/UAV2007_Recap.pdf). And also see
the people and institutions(!) who attend this - they are mostly users and heavy
business ones and do not like to talk about the technology for obvious reasons.
Anyway, if you would like to go, try to register ASAP so they can study your
interest and approve you as participant. As for technology side, even it is shown
something in some cases, I am only getting the feeling that even the best in
RCU is a "bit" too old and cheaper compared to what those guys use there;
their budget seems Class Super-Unlimited... and too much beyond reach for
almost all RCU folks. Do you agree ?

Regards,
Nikolay

patrickegan

I am already presenting at UAS 2008 on behalf of the RCAPA (Remote Control Aerial Photography Association scroll down to A14 to read my abstract. http://www.uas2008.org/All-Abstracts.pdf

My presentation is going to be on what we do.

NikolayTT

Congratulations Patrick ! You are on the serious side and that is a business !
Then you might be well "amazed" by what was "discussed" and almost ...
"agreed" here in RCU ...

xtratorque

I agree that the kind of resources available to a typical RC user would not even compare to what the military would use for a UAV. I cannot believe that a trainer with a fpv system would be mistaken for a rogue terrorist aircraft. Taking pictures from an R/C aircraft is exactly that, taking pictures for recreational use, the same as taking pictures from a Cessna 172 on a scenic flight. I believe that the most serious thing to be concerned about from a realistic standpoint is taking appropriate safety precautions , making sure you are not near full scale aircraft or flying in congested flight areas. I wouldn't reccomend flying in the flight levels that's for sure, that's an invitation for a problem, you may be able to see a full size airplane but they won't be able to see you unless they know you were there and where to look for you. Basically what it comes down to is, make sure you stay away from other airplanes, avoid flying in highly congested residential areas and check your equipment.

wjglynn

Patrick,

In your involvement in this process do you see any difference in the way an over the horizon or at least out of sight UAS system is viewed in comparison to an RC plane being piloted in the usual fashion but with a camera onboard? My greatest concern with new regulations is that the guys flying via video goggles will create overly burdensome regulation adversly affecting more the benign uses of cameras on RC aircraft?

Thanks,

Bill

MustangRay

My Feedback: (7)

I joined www.rcapa.net , they are up to date on those matters Ray.

MustangRay

My Feedback: (7)

I joined www.rcapa.net they seem up to date! Ray. Sorry I double Posted!

Sgt_Ric

In the absense of a reply yet from Patrick, I would like to point out that RCAPA and AMA and indeed even the FAA, all prohibit "beyond visual range" flight.

It would seem obvious that goggle flyers cannot possibly have the same situational awareness that anyone flying "in person" can have.

Such hazards as full size aircraft flying in on an intersecting course (other that head-on), and powerlines, sudden wind changes, etc. can not all be seen by the video goggle pilot 2 miles away.

(I know from first hand experience that stepping on the goggle video cable and losing signal can be VERY disorienting and heart-stopping. The regs say a "qualified spotter" can be used when you don't have line of sight, and now I know why!)

The non-commercial use of cameras on a directly controlled common sized R/C plane, flying under 300 or 400 feet should not be regulated.

As soon as we look at commercial use (charging for photos, etc), we have only to look at the full sized general aviation field to see that it is mainly an issue of insurance and liability which has formed the basis of the currect legislation.
No-one says that commercial flyers are more of a public danger (in fact those pilots are usually more skilled and safety oriented).

wjglynn

Sgt_Ric,

Thanks for your reply. My greatest concern was that "all" RC operations will be lumped together. Do you see a distinction being made between a photograph or video being offered up for sale after a flight in contrast to someone paying to have a photograph or video shot from an RC plane?

Bill

Sgt_Ric

Certainly.
My "enthusiasm" stems from a recent post to the "DIY Drones" forum site where I got into a spirited discussion with a person who posted a comment that they had heard that adding a camera to your model meant you now had to file a flight plan with the FAA.

That got me steamed because the hobby is already at a confusing point with uncertainty regarding the governing regulations vs pending retrictions, as it is.

At my urging, that poster has redacted his threads and the forum has posted an FAQ section listing applicable regulations (primarily covering the U.S.), as we understand them to be.

http://diydrones.com/profiles/blog/s...ogPost%3A28583

weskel

Just buy some land out in the country far away from any prying eyes or fearmongers and do what ever you want. On your own private land go for it, use cameras, out of line of sight controls, and the real dirty word on these forums (AIRBORNE PYROTECHNICS!!!!!)

Just keep it over your own land.....

Weskel

Sgt_Ric

You may own the land, but the FAA considers anything higher than 400 feet theirs to regulate in the public interest.

marco21falcon

I want to know how I can take pictures from an RC aircraft be it Heli or planker, and sell them for profit. But still remain legal. I also am in the moti9on picture industry and this makes for a really incredible opportunity for me as an RC enthisuast and being involved in the film industry to get aerial film. How can I do this and not be in peril of Trouble? Please help me. I have all the equipment at my fingertips but just dont wan't to do anything stupid and upset uncle sam

The Raven

I'm not certain where you are in the world but I can only answer based on my research for Australia

1. In Australia model aircraft fly under the rules of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). CASR 101.g applies to model aircraft are are managed by the authority delegated by CASA to the MAAA and their respective state bodies. UAVs operate under 101.f. Both sections of 101 are rather similar, with some specific exceptions. However, most UAVs are clearly outside of R/C rules if they involve for profit, commercial, or BVR operation with any semi-autonomous operation.
2. Any airspace deemed off limit by CASA or a body authorised by CASA to do so. For R/C aircraft this is generally anywhere within a 3km radius of an airport.
3. Provided no other specific restrictions exist, R/C aircraft must always give way to full size aircraft (noting it's a brave pilot that to challenges that point, given R/C pilots have a much higher chance of walking away from such a challenge) . Full size aircraft generally operate above a 500ft minimum and R/C aircraft are not generally permitted above 400ft.
4. Cannot answer for the US but R/C aircraft in Australia are not permitted to operate beyond visual range. If they operate BVR then they would typically fall under CASA 101.f which covers UAVs.
5. Don't know for EU.

Sgt_Ric

As has been mentioned before, there are several sources for those living in the US.

Visit the RCAPA site for a good self regulatory type list of commonsense guidelines as well as a page which includes all the recent applicable FAA circulars.
http://www.rcapa.net/faa-info.htm


Also, DIYDrones has an excellant EAQ on the legislation and rules as they apply to our hobby.
http://diydrones.com/profiles/blog/s...ogPost%3A28583

The FAA has recently come out with regulations which have infact put the model aerial photography in jeoprady as it specifically prohibits ANY ciommercial flights whithout specific and restrictive COAs.

Please read up on these sites.

lvspark

And you are adding to the confusion by saying

FAA HAS NOT COME OUT WITH ANY NEW REGULATIONS THAT RELATES TO RC PLANES OR UAS!
A POLICY POSITION IS NOT REGULATION OR LAW!

Sgt_Ric

You are right, that was wrong of me to say "regulation".

katarinaconnors

At one time this was a free country and not full of a bunch of paranoid controlling police state... I remember when free flight and radio control were pretty much the same and we were not flying foam Chinese toys but real stuff. Lost a bunch of fly offs, got them all back after serious searches and never damaged anything... Except my pride and budget... You can be BP and kill millions of lifeforms, beautiful intelligent dauphins by the thousands and ruin the fishing and peoples lives but the government won't let you play with your airplane??? .. Guess we just can't afford to bribe the right politicians... Sick of this controlling, paranoid, corrupt government and the cowards that America is full of.. Homeland security?? Sure!

diy-pro

I fly where I want, when I want, how ever high i want, Over who evers head i want. Im not going to pucker my rear end doing what I enjoy. And if someone wanted to take me to supreme court over it they can eat it. How ammused I would be to spend life in prison for unaurthorized flight of a UAV in San Antonio TX. Congress can eat it.

Sgt_Ric

Oh, big man!
I suppose you say the same thing about speed limits through a school zone, stop signs, and having to drive on the right hand side of the road.
Imagine if tommorrow, 20 thousand R/C'ers, FPV'ers, and UAV pilots decided the same thing...over NewYork,for example!
PandafriggingModium!

We have to work together to present logical, safe, realistic self-guidelines to the FAA before they legislate our community out of existance with ridiculous unworkable, restrictive laws.

They will listen, eventually, as long as we STOP posting daredevil stunts like flying at 5000 feet thru class B airspace, or thru the golden gate bridge buzzing people and cars... Giving them ammunition to turn around and say "See...they're dangerous nuts!"